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Vit D -- good for brain, bad for body

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
For me vitamin D causes increased sensitivity to certain types of light (flourescent, LED), and, upon exposure to that type of light, I can have coordination problems and headache. It helps me to sleep better and increases dream frequency, but has a the effect of reducing my overall energy. At one point, many years ago, I was able to go for 1/2 kilometre walks but after a couple of months of vitamin D supplementation I was down to 100 feet max. I never recovered. I also found that I would overheat very quickly with just a little physical exertion. Once I stopped taking the vitamin D, within a few days the overheating problem diseappeared.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
I find that 5-10k of Vit D gives me significant more mental energy and helps me at least concentrate on e.g. TV; without it, I can't even do that. But it triggers significant physical crashes. Does anyone else have the same issue?
YES

Now I know why. The extra Vitamin D increases calcium uptake which increases inflammation. It also increases glutamate.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

outdamnspot

Senior Member
Messages
924
For me vitamin D causes increased sensitivity to certain types of light (flourescent, LED), and, upon exposure to that type of light, I can have coordination problems and headache. It helps me to sleep better and increases dream frequency, but has a the effect of reducing my overall energy. At one point, many years ago, I was able to go for 1/2 kilometre walks but after a couple of months of vitamin D supplementation I was down to 100 feet max. I never recovered. I also found that I would overheat very quickly with just a little physical exertion. Once I stopped taking the vitamin D, within a few days the overheating problem diseappeared.

I was taking high doses for a few weeks and went into one of my worst crashes ever last month. Once I stopped it, my energy improved after about a week. However, I am always drawn back to it because of the cognitive benefits; it's frustrating to not be able to concentrate.
 

xrayspex

Senior Member
Messages
1,111
Location
u.s.a.
interesting, I can never stay on it long enough to enumerate and articulate well why I don't like it---sort of like when I eat garlic or eggs, my world seems ruined but its hard to say why......I think its more pain and fatigue--I didnt used to notice anything on it either way I dont think--have had chronic pain and fatigue for 27 years but in the last 10ish years have started noticing strong negative reaction every time I try to take D for even a day--insomnia, strong irritability, discomfort.....feels like it ruins my day....and I have tried D2, D3, liquid, capsule, small dose etc come at it from every angle
I have felt increasingly worse from being out in the sun during the summer as well and avoid that for over 10 years

maybe my brain works better, sort of like when I tried prescription stimulants 15 years ago....but I feel so bad in other ways that it cancels out any cognitive improvement
 

Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,012
Location
Germany
I don't know why, but I tried to go to higher-dose Vitamin D (3000-7000 IU per day) three times over the last three years, and each time, all my symptoms (brain and body) deteriorated strongly. It took several weeks to recover to the previous state of illness after discontinuing Vitamin D.

I suspect in me and a lot of CFS patients there is something going on with calcium with too much calcium making things worse for some patients.

I clearly feel that's the case for me.
 

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
I had to start low and increase slowly (I get very sick on it) I got to the point to think I was allergic to it. I try to sunbathe as much as I can now (which used to make me feel really sick too). But if you start slow and low and increase over time, body will be ok. It is just to high a dose to start with.
 

Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,012
Location
Germany
Maybe this is why I feel worse lately. I really ramped up my vitamin intake the past two weeks and I feel absolutely terrible.

That's interesting. I would be keen to learn if this is a wider phenomenon among CFS patients. I think that at least in a subset, higher calcium intake (Vitamin D increases absorption) creates problems. I strongly suspect my CFS is herpes virus induced, so perhaps this might be a specific symptom of that subset and help identify those patients in that subset.

I have definitive proof (a whole series of blood tests over several years) that there must be something wrong with calcium in my body. It's impossible that a healthy person has Vitamin D 50 ng/ml plus 1000mg Calcium supplement, plus otherwise calcium-rich diet including daily dairy and still serum calcium is at times below the norm and there is persistent secondary hyperparathyroidism (elevated parathyroid hormone).

I'd be interested in hearing if others here also have unexplained low calcium serum levels and elevated parathyroid hormone. There might be a link to the CFS.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
I don't know why, but I tried to go to higher-dose Vitamin D (3000-7000 IU per day) three times over the last three years, and each time, all my symptoms (brain and body) deteriorated strongly. It took several weeks to recover to the previous state of illness after discontinuing Vitamin D.

I suspect in me and a lot of CFS patients there is something going on with calcium with too much calcium making things worse for some patients.

I clearly feel that's the case for me.

:thumbsup:
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Thanks for the thumbs up! :)

Do you have similar experiences?
What does Vitamin D do–and what should you know about Vitamin D?
  1. Facilitates increased intestinal absorption of phosphorus and calcium as well as suppression of parathyroid hormone secretion to increase our plasma calcium concentrations. It, however, does not dictate or direct where this calcium will be deposited in our bodies. There is also not a strong negative feedback control loop within the gut for Vitamin D.
YES
http://www.warf.org/for-industry/vitamin-d/vitamin-d.cmsx
I believe we have major issues with calcium leaking into the mitochondria and magnesium leaking out. Every CFS doc and researcher I have spoke to agrees. It can be shown with blood tests that chemicals, nnEMF, allergens etc cause this.

If we increase VIT D, but are having constant calcium efflux, are we going to feel great? HELL TO THE NAH
 

xrayspex

Senior Member
Messages
1,111
Location
u.s.a.
What does Vitamin D do–and what should you know about Vitamin D?
  1. Facilitates increased intestinal absorption of phosphorus and calcium as well as suppression of parathyroid hormone secretion to increase our plasma calcium concentrations. It, however, does not dictate or direct where this calcium will be deposited in our bodies. There is also not a strong negative feedback control loop within the gut for Vitamin D.
YES
http://www.warf.org/for-industry/vitamin-d/vitamin-d.cmsx
I believe we have major issues with calcium leaking into the mitochondria and magnesium leaking out. Every CFS doc and researcher I have spoke to agrees. It can be shown with blood tests that chemicals, nnEMF, allergens etc cause this.

If we increase VIT D, but are having constant calcium efflux, are we going to feel great? HELL TO THE NAH
I never heard this before about calcium and magnesium. I know everyone recommends mag but I don't feel good on that either, think it detoxes me too fast which isn't pleasant.

but that is interesting about calcium......I don't supplement with it just because binds me up....not sure how it effects me otherwise.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,094
I got to the point to think I was allergic to it.
If you come to think of it vit D is usually derived from lanolin (sheep's wool) which is a common allergen.
If we increase VIT D, but are having constant calcium efflux, are we going to feel great? HELL TO THE NAH
I wonder if taking inositol would counter this effect. Inositol holds calcium inside the cells.
 

Wonkmonk

Senior Member
Messages
1,012
Location
Germany
I wonder if taking inositol would counter this effect. Inositol holds calcium inside the cells.

Of course this is all just my personal speculation, but I think that the problems rather come from too much calcium inside the cells. My Serum calcium level is very low despite high Vitamin D plus high calcium supplementation, so I am wondering where does all the calcium go. Parathyroid hormone is also high and bone markers are in the norm, so I don't think it is going into the bone. In a 24-hour urine sample, no hypercalciuria was detected, so where does it go?

I think too much of it goes into the cells and when there's an excess in the cells it is (a) lacking in the serum, as tests show, and (b) causing disfunction in the cells.

So if this theory is correct, I'd rather need something that gets it out of the cells, not something that keeps it inside. Calcium channel blockers would seem to keep some of it out, and they have been helpful to an extent, but not much sadly.
 

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Of course this is all just my personal speculation, but I think that the problems rather come from too much calcium inside the cells. My Serum calcium level is very low despite high Vitamin D plus high calcium supplementation, so I am wondering where does all the calcium go. Parathyroid hormone is also high and bone markers are in the norm, so I don't think it is going into the bone. In a 24-hour urine sample, no hypercalciuria was detected, so where does it go?

I think too much of it goes into the cells and when there's an excess in the cells it is (a) lacking in the serum, as tests show, and (b) causing disfunction in the cells.

So if this theory is correct, I'd rather need something that gets it out of the cells, not something that keeps it inside. Calcium channel blockers would seem to keep some of it out, and they have been helpful to an extent, but not much sadly.


Yes!!

This is the issue IMO, based on research and following the work of numerous doctors.

The biochemist who developed the tests Dr myhill uses sees this all the time. Dr Cheney states this too! He says Magnesium injections can help, they keep magnesium inside the cell for 4-6 hours.

I think researchers in Australia are looking a this. This is the area that could help us a lot, not cure but give people a good quality of life. Personally if I has a lot of money I would fund Dr John McLaren-Howard http://www.neurolipid.org/who-we-are/medical-advisory-board/dr-john-mclaren-howard-phd/(mentioned above) and see if he could measure different substances and see if any STOP the calcium leaking into the cell/ knocking magnesium out.

How can we get well if Magnesium, which is required for ATP reactions, keeps leaking out of the cell?

Here is a great presentation on Vitamin D, by the genius Hector F. DeLuca

 

PatJ

Forum Support Assistant
Messages
5,288
Location
Canada
Some people can feel worse because vitamin D can induce deficiencies, especially magnesium deficiency. It's very important to take the co-factors so that vitamin D can be utilized properly by the body.

Here are some notes I've gathered about vitamin D:
from: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/magnesium-and-vitamin-d.html
Since magnesium is required for the conversion of vitamin d into its active form, it's also true that taking vitamin d may not raise Vitamin D Blood Levels in those who are magnesium deficient!! Be sure that you read this again and understand this magnesium and vitamin d interrelationship:

Magnesium is 'Used Up' when Vitamin D is converted into its active form in the blood
Magnesium is 'Required' to convert Vitamin D into its active form in the blood

It works BOTH ways. Magnesium is not JUST depleted, but you won't convert vitamin d unless you have enough magnesium in order to allow vitamin d to BE converted!! In many cases where large doses of vitamin d are taken but the vitamin d level does not come up, both the person deficient and their doctor believe that they are having Vitamin D Absorption problems.

[Deficiencies, induced]
from http://drcarolyndean.com/2014/06/no-clear-role-for-vitamin-d/
So, if you take Vitamin D in high doses and don’t have enough magnesium, zinc, Vitamin K2, Vitamin A or boron, then Vitamin D isn’t going to work. Or in the worst case scenario, the excess Vitamin D gives you symptoms of deficiency of these nutrients.

When someone is low in magnesium and they take high doses of Vitamin D (above 1,000 iu per day), their magnesium is further depleted and they experience symptoms of magnesium deficiency. People have told me about 6-week migraines, seizures, angina, heart palpitations, and muscle cramping when they take Vitamin D. Some very magnesium deficient people can get symptoms when they lie out in the sun because the Vitamin D they are making uses up what little magnesium they have.
...

Cofactors:
from: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/pain-while-taking-vitamin-d.html

Take with: K2, A, B2 (Riboflavin), Magnesium, boron, zinc

These cofactors, and other nutrients, are critical in the absorption and conversion of vitamin D into its active form in the blood and also help to deposit minerals in the bones where they belong, instead of allowing the calcium to be deposited in other tissues where they cause calcifications, such as hardening of the arteries.

It is HIGHLY recommended that with any Vitamin D regimen, you also take a full spectrum of multivitamin and minerals that include Vitamins A, K and magnesium in adequate doses that will allow you to avoid the side effects of vitamin d that are due to lack of these necessary cofactors.
...

Bone pain:
from: http://www.easy-immune-health.com/is-kidney-soreness-a-side-effect-of-vitamin-d.html
When a person with somewhat spongy bones takes vitamin d, it allows your body to absorb calcium quickly -- and with that calcium fluids go into the bones too, just like a sponge. And when this happens, it actually can make your bones swell against the outer covering of your bones. And because this outer covering of your bones is not flexible, you can experience this swelling as pain.

and:
It's very simple. Intake of Vitamin D + Kidney stone/pain = low magnesium!
Vitamin D requires Mg, low Mg = kidney stones!
...

Avoiding hypercalcemia, from cinnabar on longecity:
I have a terrible time with hypercalcemia from Vitamin D3 (from both sun exposure and supplement) until I took lots of copper. I was already taking plenty of magnesium, K2 MQ7, and Vitamin A. It took me years to figure this out.

A short term trial of copper is low risk, and 10mg/day is published as the tolerable upper intake level by the EU Scientific Committee on Food. I found that three to four days of copper was enough to see a big difference in my ability to tolerate Vitamin D3.
...

http://www.easy-immune-health.com/pain-while-taking-vitamin-d.html
One of the problems that occurs when someone is deficient in vitamin D for a very long time is that they have loss of calcium and minerals from their bones. Over time, this leads to a condition called osteopenia or osteoporosis. But loss of bone minerals can occur even if your Bone Mineral Density appears ‘normal’ to doctors.

However, if you are experiencing pain while taking vitamin D, then your bone mineral status is definitely not normal and your pain proves it. You see, when your bones are seriously depleted of minerals, and you begin to take vitamin d, the vitamin d will help you start absorbing minerals and depositing them into the bones where it is needed. But water always attaches to minerals, and when your bones begin to remineralize, it will also draw water with those minerals.

Unfortunately for many, when this happens, the periosteum, a thin layer of tissue that surrounds the bones, will swell with the water, causing pain similar to the pain of a bone bruise. This pain is ‘temporary’, meaning that it can last weeks to months, sometimes even up to 6 months or longer, depending upon how long it takes for your bones to stop remineralizing at such a high rate.

[Wait it out]
The best thing to do when you experience pain while taking vitamin d is to just wait it out. While no one likes to experience pain, it’s relieving to know that there is nothing wrong with you and that your body is actually healing. Some people want to decrease the dose of their Vitamin D, or stop it completely and justify this by saying that they are ‘listening to their body’ or that they believe they are experiencing a Vitamin D Overdose.

While your body IS trying to tell you something, it’s actually telling you that you were extremely deficient for a long time and it’s trying to heal you. What it’s not telling you to do is to stop remineralizing your bones!
...

From aaron_c on PR:
I can't tolerate oral Vitamin D, but UV-b light works fantastically. Stephanie Seneff claims that vitamin d produced in the skin is in fact vitamin D sulfate, which has somewhat different properties than the unsulfated version. It's the only reason I know of that explains the difference.