Lack of chatter about the Ketogenic Diet

[Basilico]

@anne_likes_red , yes, it is always a mystery how some things work so well for some but not for others. I think it's a great idea for people to try CT or a keto diet, because there really is no way to know if it will work ahead of time.

 

[DoggerFisher]

These were important factors in my improvement on keto. I also think that digestion/motility issues mediated by autonomic dysfunction play a bigger part in many of us without realising

I don't have obvious IBS symptoms this time around seemed to sort those at previous bad episode but diet had (until last 2 nights) also vastly improved sleep. Like sleeping all night instead of interrupted every night.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

I love keto, purely for the fact that i have 4 sugars in my tea and keto forces me to stop that.

I combine keto with fasting, one meal per day at roughly the same time each day.

The keto definitely helps with brain fog, and stops carb bloating that i developed in the last year and makes me feel all round slightly better once i get through the sugar craving section.

After a couple of months if i go back to normal diet, as soon as i eat any sugar my body treats it like a poison and i get the runs and my body gets rid of it straight away.

I stopped doing the keto last time as my bloods showed borderline fatty liver because of it which worried me.

I've now restarted it again because apart from my liver, the rest of my body prefers it. So i'm just playing it by ear at the moment.

 

[DoggerFisher]

I love keto

Good to hear! Just got back from GP appointment where I fessed up about it. He didn't seem worried about long term. Then it's not him doing it! How do you know when you have fatty liver @Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. ? Am waiting to pick up a bit more physical energy...

 

[DoggerFisher]

Doh! Apologies just read your post again @Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. blood test. Is that a standard liver function one? Am really illiterate as in the 147 years of having this illness this is the first time I've encountered a GP remotely interested. What a refreshing change! But you see it gets me all over excited

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

Lol no worries @DoggerFisher yeah it was a standard liver test, part of a full abdomen screening and scans as i'd had severe abdominal pain for a month. Now thinking it was a kidney stone.

The pain was completely gone when i had the blood tests but still showed a slight problem in the liver.

The test was repeated 8 weeks later and GP didn't ring me this time so its either ok again or she just forgot to call

It was a bit of a worry but not enough to make me stop doing it.

 

[DoggerFisher]

It makes me reflect on how many times I said while eating fish soup in Norway "this stuff is medicine" fish and cream mostly..... I was probably right! M mmmm fish soup ☺

 

[serusaert]

The keto definitely helps with brain fog, and stops carb bloating that i developed in the last year and makes me feel all round slightly better once i get through the sugar craving section.

@Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. i think the bloating might be SIBO. i get bloated from any high fiber grain (like oats, etc).

re the fatty liver, you might have it turned around. fatty liver is often caused by an intolerance to high levels of carbs (or alcohol) and keto is considered by some to be a good alternative treatment for fatty liver because it allows your body to actually utilize and burn that fat.

on the other hand, eating carbs beyond one's tolerance triggers a large insulin release which causes the carbs to be converted to fat in the liver in the form of lipoprotein particles (LDL, VLDL, etc) and these cannot be burned and they get stored as body fat and can cause atherosclerosis if they lodge in the artery walls.

so, generally speaking, a high carb diet forces the liver to store those carbs as fat while eating keto makes the liver convert the fats to ketones which are burned in place of carbs - but more cleanly.

 

[ChrisD]

Could it be that people who are feeling worse are not in full Ketosis? Without sounding ignorant, does everyone use Keto urine strips to monitor ketones?

 

[sb4]

As my gastroparesis has lessened over recent months I decided to get back into ketosis however this time encounted massive difficulties due to my POTS. First few days no problem, 3-4 day felt like crap, headache, low carb flu, whatever. Day 5-6-7 massive heart racing and pounding problems. I know this isnt rare and can be treated with electrolytes but I tried this in high and low amounts but it didnt really help. Multiple times through the day and especially through the night my heart would just go insane, like last year when my POTS was real bad.

I want to get back into keto as I was already feeling some of the benefits. I just wander if anyone has had a similair experience with POTS + keto. Does it go away after a few days or is it keto can be bad for some POTS subsets?

Today I couldn't handle it and upped my carbs to 120. I'm feeling much better ATM.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

As my gastroparesis has lessened over recent months I decided to get back into ketosis however this time encounted massive difficulties due to my POTS. First few days no problem, 3-4 day felt like crap, headache, low carb flu, whatever. Day 5-6-7 massive heart racing and pounding problems. I know this isnt rare and can be treated with electrolytes but I tried this in high and low amounts but it didnt really help. Multiple times through the day and especially through the night my heart would just go insane, like last year when my POTS was real bad.

I want to get back into keto as I was already feeling some of the benefits. I just wander if anyone has had a similair experience with POTS + keto. Does it go away after a few days or is it keto can be bad for some POTS subsets?

Today I couldn't handle it and upped my carbs to 120. I'm feeling much better ATM.

This happened to me also when going back on keto last week. I haven't personally found exactly whats causing it so when it happens i just up the carbs and then try again properly a few days later. I haven't found a pattern to this yet so I just play it by ear.

When the POTS is bad though it makes it very difficult to go through the adaptation process which is difficult enough to begin with.

I've just started again a couple of days ago as my POTS isn't too bad so i'm using this window to try to push through before symptoms flare up again.

 

[DoggerFisher]

well bit of an update from me still cognitively nervous system etc. improvement maintained I CAN READ!! nearly 2 months in but went through a period of extremely low BP. Started combo of salt, lo salt and epsom salt and it seems to have improved that. i am still muscularly weaker than pre-keto which is frustrating and not inspiring confidence but i also don't know how or when to stop and can't really remember what i used to eat! Also been messing with Coq10 (bad effect at 200g!) and started D-rib but i don't think it combines well with keto. will try for a bit longer.

 

[Learner1]

Glad you're having some improvement. It sounds like you have more going on than just whether to keto or not.

I take 200mg ubiquinol and 10mg d-ribose daily on a keto diet without a problem.

Sounds like you might have been low in sodium and magnesium. Might you be low in other minerals?

Glad you're

 

[DoggerFisher]

Sounds like you might have been low in sodium and magnesium. Might you be low in other minerals?

thanks @Learner1 i take Myhill mineral mix at the max dose as well but am shooting in the dark! Just felt with the D ribose I had carb cravings for first time in 2 months quite likely psychological from the sweetness? dunno

 

[Learner1]

Given all the research coming out, it's likely that most of us are short of a few key nutrients, due to a dysfunctional microbiome causing malabsorption, increased demand for certain nutrients due to infectious agents, or our various systems running amok. And then there's the fact that crops are grown on soils that are depleted of nutrients they used to have.

Personalizing nutrients is the key to optimizing your body's functions. It sure beats guessing. A full nutrient test, like a Genova Diagnostics NutrEval might give you more clues.

Eating a lot of nutrient rich nonstarchy vegetables is a must with a keto diet, as well as taking a B vitamin complex to help you use all the nutrients.

The d-ribose is a carb and can affect your blood sugar. I have mine in my coffee with C8 oil, so I don't notice any impact.

Best wishes to you.

 

[DoggerFisher]

Thanks @Learner1 I don't know how I can get a test like that in the UK? anyone else got an equivalent that's accessible without a helpful GP?
I read lots of stuff about D-ribose, including that it can lower your blood sugar, bit weird for a sugar but there you go!

 

[Learner1]

It's available in the UK. Try calling or emailing them to find out where you can get it. The website is https://www.gdx.net/

It's the best test out there for a comprehensive nutritional analysis.

 

[DoggerFisher]

It's available in the UK. .

Ok, it says it has to be ordered by a physician?

 

[serusaert]

This happened to me also when going back on keto last week. I haven't personally found exactly whats causing it so when it happens i just up the carbs and then try again properly a few days later. I haven't found a pattern to this yet so I just play it by ear.

When the POTS is bad though it makes it very difficult to go through the adaptation process which is difficult enough to begin with.

I've just started again a couple of days ago as my POTS isn't too bad so i'm using this window to try to push through before symptoms flare up again.

i have similar difficulty with keto adaptation. i think there are very few of us who can cycle in and out of keto without some discomfort due to our complex issues. i have tried. i do a higher carb version of keto that keeps me at the low-middle end of blood ketones - along with C8/D-ribose/Inositol/coffee, like @Learner1 (sometimes i even add a pinch of dextrose to cut the coffee bitterness).

i would also recommend a ton of water and salt during keto adaptation - especially if POTS is acting up.

however, i actually feel it's good for me to carb up occasionally on fruit. i will take a small 1 month break when the crenshaw melons arrive in the farmers market in a few weeks. the foods that really mess me up are carbs like oats and wheat.

i know some of us have commented that keto may not be ideal for all folks with CFS and i would agree because:

1. not all folks with CFS/ME have pronounced SIBO/IBS/carb-intolerance (tho many do)
2. not everyone can tolerate keto adaptation (or complete it)
3. our bodies crave carbs - not naturally an issue because they are supposed to only be periodically available (evolutionarily speaking) - but it is too difficult to get past the cravings for some of us

 

[Learner1]

Ok, it says it has to be ordered by a physician?

It does. Here in the US, too. But very worthwhile.