Flush of Vit C - a come back

[student]

Please give this Flush of Vit C a chance- a come back from 6/ 2013(and daily intake is wanted too.) So there were YT's out 3 years.

Let me talk for a moment about two goops: The verry healthy groop - (5% need 4 gr, anouther 10% 5- 10 gr Vitamin C) has a most easy way for a regular detox. We are not in these tow most healthy groops. (for this groop all this is more complex... lets see). When pushing through the body massiv amounts of vitamin C. It comes to a turning point.
The number needed underlies quite some variations. But what happens when you hit this maximum intake point? The body opens this helpful pathway. And a massiv flash of lymph (plasma) bypasses the whole colon and comes out via rectum. In this a lot of toxins find their way out. That means by this our bodies have bypassed the complex hepatic Re-uptake system of Toxin also. Through this personal maximum vitamin C intake mark - these toxins can directly flush out.
This is found under: Vitamin c flush, C cleans - I heard this on Youtube from R. Jaffe.

While clients numbers here for the reduced Glutathion and a compromised Redox Vitamin C system climb already realy high for this soon. It is more advised to act on this with much profesional help. R Jaffe says: The personalise numbers for this groop in more need to his calculations 11g - 125 g Vitamin C - ths is for 80% of all the people before a personal maximum is reached an
this flush can happen. So eaven more normal people would plan
on some 15 gr (with lets say 20 times every 15 minutes intake) Vitamin C, when doing this flush at home.

In the past - I was not aware that this mechanism is wanted and was aimed at, when we hear about the verry high Vitamin intakes. And saing agein - this is so easy to reach with quite low numbers, when young and still verry healthy.

Next to Sauna (and infrared via scin detox), this rectum-lymph 'flush' passway - is one of most easy detox mechanisms that I heard of.

best regards - student
First go and tell all the healthy friends - to use this. The quality of vitamin c

 

[student]

My firsthand C flush source is from 6/2013 R Jaffe

http://epubs.democratprinting.com/a...ple_Ways_to_Detox/2499331/306929/article.html
http://www.drrusselljaffe.com/get-lead-safely-naturally/
It is good to support Selenium, Sulfur (garlic, ginger, onions, Egs), check weather your buffer has Magnesium.

Half of these sugested 125 g of the 80% (is seen 60- 70 gr) here. Good quality vit C - orderd throug the professional.

as a more unhealthy person used 6 gr (as 2 spoons); healthy only take 1,5 g (that is half spoon, medium is 3g like one spoon). Please mesure verry exactly your milligrams - your spoon takes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
nI6ypqxUlvU
We want - the dayli intake. Calculate precicly. treat every day. This lady sais the flush is - once a week. (Her personal example: she took 36 gr Ascorbate) - wants to give weekly flushes for 6 month. and after this every forthnight a flush for one year. In this exampel the lady takes 2 days off. But the 75% of your own number dayli. And the next flush is planed after 8 days.

 

[pattismith]

15gr every 15 mn x 20 which makes 300 gr!

every day! How long do you do that? Did you have side effects?

Do you need to fast before?

Ascorbic acid brings a lot of acidity in the blood, are you sure it can't harm?

 

[PinkPanda]

I would be careful with this approach. You can overdose vitamin c. The daily requirement is about 200mg and i guess doses of a few grams shoulnd't be an issue but the doses you are talking about are on a whole different level.
Vitamin c overdosage symptoms are vomiting, diarrhea, insomnia, etc and an increased risk for kindes stones.

Oxidized vitamin c is either regenerated by glutathione or broken down via diketogulonic acid to oxalate. High oxalate increases the risk for kidney stones. With these high doses there could be a high breakdown to oxalate because there is not enouh glutathione to regenerate the vitamin c.

 

[NotThisGuy]

@PinkPanda
I always thought ALA is regenerating Vit. C.
Any sources on glutathione?

I also remember right now that Rich said low dose vit. c is depleting glutathione and high doses are increasing glutathione.....

 

[PinkPanda]

Alpha Lipoic Acid and glutathione can both regenerate oxidized vitamin C (dehydroascorbic acid) to ascorbic acid.
Here is a pdf

https://web.archive.org/web/2014121...tage.jst.go.jp/article/bbb/64/3/64_3_476/_pdf

where you can see on the picture on the first page DAA (dehydroascorbic acid) being reduced by gsh (reduced glutathione) to AA (ascorbic acid).

 

[David Jackson]

Haha, I'm keen to try this - but I need a day when I don't have anything else that I need to do.

I'll report how I do on this thread

 

[pamojja]

I'll report how I do on this thread

I did it once some years ago. And yes it's demanding and you need a day off. During my waking hours took 3 g an hour. A bid more - 50 g in total per day - and I would 'flush'. Continued with a more normal high dose, in average 23 g ascorbic acid per day the last 8 years.

Did you have side effects?

Do you need to fast before?

Ascorbic acid brings a lot of acidity in the blood, are you sure it can't harm?

The intended effect is a watery stool, after a slightly decrease in intake stops it right away. From my regular high intake had mostly beneficial side benefits. As I wrote somewhere else:

Vitamin C - after a PAD diagnosis almost 9 years ago, together with lysine and all other nutrients recommended by Linus Pauling - pain-free walking distance improved from mere 3-400 meters up to 2 hours. But only once I exceeded the in his view minimal therapeutic dose of 6g/d each. Side-benefits: a since 2 years persistent skin-rush cleared up, hay-fewer symptoms recurring every spring since 15 years got alleviated. HbA1c stayed disproportionally low, compared to higher blood glucose. A cystitis circumscripta of the bladder disappeared. Truly addictive stuff for someone with my health-issues. Only negative side-effect: flatulence.

No need to fast. My blood ph tested 3 times with arterial blood gases came back consistently at 7,48 (7.35 - 7.45 normal range) with a base-excess of in average 3..3 (-2 - +3 mmol/l normal). No kidney stones, despite that much ascorbic acid for years and a high oxalate diet.

 

[Learner1]

I've gotten many high dose vitamin C IVs (50-100g) and done a lot of detoxing under the supervision of expert doctors and paired with regular lab testing.

In my experience, vitamin C was not a primary detox mechanism - I had it in fighting cancer and infections. It was also used in concert with other antioxidants...alpha lipoic acid, glutathione, NAC, vitamin A, vitamin E, some orally, and some IV.

Antioxidants work synergistically and taking too much of one without the others is asking for trouble.

Vitamin C interacts with glucose metabolism. It also creates oxidative stress, which is how it helps with killing cancer and unfection, which is a good thing. But too much of a good thing can be bad, so its wise to be educated and to be careful, ideally under a doctor's supervision.

 

[student]

Hallo again ; ).
@pattismith: YES one patient might end - with a verry high uptake. Lets say 50- 90 gr. (SEE Details below) forgive me, when I had muddled up figures:

And, Yes follow precisly what HE/at page 2 - says: A discribtion I fond - (You have chosen a groop and therefore take - A: half tsp, - B: one tsp, or - C: two tsp - every 15 min)/ a n d we all are more likely to be in the third groop. That means taking two tsp. And this calculates as - 8gr taken EVERRY 15 min... SEE: http://www.perque.com/wheybetterguard/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/PIH_History-Of-The-C-Cleanse.pdf
Jaffe started this 1980. This one is his product. http://www.drrusselljaffe.com/c-cleanse-different/
http://www.perque.com/products-page/foundation/perque-potent-c-guard-powder/

 

[student]

@PinkPanda: YES this concept is the verry C flush- challenge. (The verry healthy People might use such a DETOX therapie easely.) I still wait for this special buffered Vitamin C brand - that I have ordered - and trust that all this is promissing. The verry end-point is not at the start of first bowl movements. But it says, that I should wait and want to go through towards the verry watery stool. (I better prepare my desaster pans.) Thogether with this lympf-alike-fluid poop. What will be coming out of the rectum?? In this I will be loosing Metalls (and some minerals). That is the HOPE. The most important part - this can bypass our gut and the colon. This way the Toxin-load should get no chance of being re-upsorbed.
And - Thank you. To my knoledge @PinkPanda: - Dr Jaffe had helped a number of sicker patients as well. And in YT talks he had not yet spoken about such things. (And he never reported such
un-pysiological sideeffects.) To my understanding toxins are avoided - that is part of this strategy. And those mentioned are natural substances that the body handels well in its bichemical Pathways.

 

[student]

@ Notthisguy: Yes, To my knoledge higher doses of vitamin C support the Glutathion. Where as: The Vitamin C-Half-life can be in the more-neady client be near to 30 min (Dr Jaffe). In a 'maxiumum-Flux-strategie' much of this vitamin C will deterorate before this is fully used. And the main point again is to still build up to the verry end- point

A high Vitamin C (a 50% or/ the 75% of this maximum) intake according to Jaffe, can be continued... before repeating this same DETOX after 7- 10 days.

 

[student]

I do think about - my secondary strategies in addition to this protocoll. (also before and after DETOX) my good sleeping and sun exposure - can be helpfull. Yes, @Panojja: a Flatulense is a verry likely sideffect. Bowls work diffrent. What about the stress - while fluid excretion. (This was never mentioned much. no?? ) A refilling of minerals is helpfull. Any detailed sugestions - what to start on the day after.

The specifique strategie is about moving (and redistributing) the verry Toxique load. Thanks @Lennert.
I will consider taking this. I have ALA in Powder form. ALA (alphalipoic acid) is a good and easy 'second' chelater . I have detoxed with ALA. I place ALA powder into the verry back of my tongue/ or throat. (I want some therapie effect towards a bad Tooth cavity). Every 30 min for ALA is my plan. I stick to the same ALA dosing (50- 80mg) and only a slight little dosing - going higher towards the End of my 'vitamin C flush'.
* ALA works best in a realy good quality.

 

[Learner1]

Mark Levine at NIH found only so much can be absorbed through the intestines. For higher doses, it must be IV.

If you're trying to detox, you might look into PolyMVA, which is an ALA polymer, and can pull toxins out of the mitochondria where they might be blocking ATP production.

 

[pamojja]

..only so much can be absorbed through the intestines. For higher doses, it must be IV.

As far as I know, only up to 1.5 g of vitamin C have been used in absorption studies. And absorption of higher doses calculated only. Except this one odd study, which actually measured levels up to 20 g/d.

Journal of the New Zealand Medical Association, 23-August-2002, Vol 115 No 1160

Glycohaemoglobin and ascorbic acid

Copplestone et al1 (http://www.nzma.org....al/115-1157/25/) identified misleading glycohaemoglobin (GHb) results due to a haemoglobin variant (Hb D Punjab) and listed a number of other possible causes for such false results (ie, haemolytic anaemia, uraemia, lead poisoning, alcoholism, high-dose salicylates and hereditary persistence of foetal haemoglobin).

We have observed a significant "false" lowering of GHb in animals and humans supplementing ascorbic acid (AA) at multigram levels. Mice receiving ~7.5 mg/d (equivalent to > 10 g/day in a 70 kg human) exhibited no decrease in plasma glucose, but a 23% reduction in GHb.2 In humans, supplementation of AA for several months did not lower fasting plasma glucose.3,4 We studied 139 consecutive consenting non-diabetic patients in an oncology clinic. The patients had been encouraged as part of their treatment to supplement AA. Self-reported daily intake varied from 0 to 20 g/day. The plasma AA levels ranged from 11.4 to 517 µmol/L and correlated well with the reported intake. Regression analysis of their GHb and plasma AA values showed a statistically significant inverse association (eg, each 30 µmol/L increase in plasma AA concentration resulted in a decrease of 0.1 in GHb).

A 1 g oral dose of AA can raise plasma AA to 130 µmol/L within an hour and such doses at intervals of about two hours throughout the day can maintain ~230 µmol AA/L.5 Similar levels could also be achieved by use of sustained-release AA tablets. This AA concentration would induce an approximate 0.7 depression in GHb. The GHb assay used in our study, affinity chromatography, is not affected by the presence of AA.3 Thus, unlike the case with Hb D Punjab, our results were not caused by analytical method artifact. More likely, the decreased GHb associated with AA supplementation appears related to an in vivo inhibition of glycation by the elevated plasma AA levels, and not a decrease in average plasma glucose.3 If this is true, the effect has implications not only for interpretation of GHb but also for human ageing, in which glycation of proteins plays a prominent role in age-related degenerative changes.

A misleading GHb lowering of the magnitude we observed can be clinically significant. Current recommendations for diabetics suggest that GHb be maintained at 7, a level that is associated with acceptable control and decreased risk of complications; when GHb exceeds 8, re-evaluation of treatment is necessary.6 Moreover, relatively small increases in average blood sugar (ie, GHb) can accompany adverse reproductive effects. A difference in mean maternal GHb of 0.8 was found for women giving birth to infants without or with congenital malformations.7 In either of these circumstances, an underestimation of GHb could obscure the need for more aggressive intervention.

Vitamin usage is common in New Zealand and after multivitamins, AA is the most often consumed supplement.8 Moreover, diabetics are encouraged to supplement antioxidants, including AA. Thus, it seems prudent for primary care health providers to inquire regarding the AA intake of patients, especially diabetics, when using GHb for diagnosis or treatment monitoring.

Cheryl A Krone
Senior Research Scientist
John TA Ely
Director
Applied Research Institute
PO Box 1925
Palmerston North

References:

• Copplestone S, Mackay R, Brennan S. Normal glycated haemoglobin in a patient with poorly controlled diabetes mellitus and haemoglobin D Punjab: implications for assessment of control. NZ Med J 2002;115(1157). URL: http://www.nzma.org....al/115-1157/25/
• Krone CA, Ely JTA. Vitamin C and glycohemoglobin revisited. Clin Chem 2001;47(1):148.
• Davie SJ, Gould BJ, Yudkin JS. Effect of vitamin C on glycosylation of proteins. Diabetes 1992;41(2):167–73.
• Paolisso G, Balbi V, Bolpe C, et al. Metabolic benefits deriving from chronic vitamin C supplementation in aged non-insulin dependent diabetics. J Am Coll Nutr 1995; 14(4):387–392.
• Lewin S. Vitamin C: Its Molecular Biology and Medical Potential. New York: Academic Press; 1976.
• Kenealey T, Braatvedt G, Scragg R. Screening for type 2 diabetes in non-pregnant adults in New Zealand: practice recommendations. NZ Med J 2002;115(1152):194–6.
• Rosenn B, Miodovnik M, Dignan PS, et al. Minor congenital malformation in infants of insulin-dependent diabetic women: association with poor glycemic control. Obstet Gynecol 1990;76:745–9.
• Allen T, Thomson WM, Emmerton LM, Poulton R. Nutritional supplement use among 26-year-olds. N Z Med J 2000;113(1113):274–7.

Again: Self-reported daily intake varied from 0 to 20 g/day. The plasma AA levels ranged from 11.4 to 517 µmol/L and correlated well with the reported intake.

500 µmol/L are plasma levels to be expected from IV only. But in this one odd oral study - where plasma levels were actually measured and not only extrapolated - it was just as easily reached!

 

[Learner1]

http://www.blockmd.com/blog/new-study-on-intravenous-vitamin-c-for-cancer

 

[Gondwanaland]

PolyMVA, which is an ALA polymer, and can pull toxins out of the mitochondria where they might be blocking ATP production

Sounds like my experiment with carcinine.

Except this one odd study, which actually measured levels up to 20 g/d.

The one you posted is a letter (scroll down to p. 49)
The actual study is here.
Copplestone et al. cited in the letter is here on page 19.

Many people incl. myself report intolerance to vit C relating the adverse reactions to endogenous conversion of ascorbic acid into oxalate (which actually results from increased glycation, I believe) or to high sulfite added to powders (sulfite intolerance is also due to increased glycation, I believe). I think that in the process of increased glycation there is thiamine destruction/antagonism by oxalates and sulfites.

While my personal issues clearly indicate against vit C supplementation, it does seem that many people can benefit from it.

Here for the pesrpective of nutrient balance with vit C supplementation.

 

[Learner1]

Sounds like my experiment with carcinine.

Yes, i actually had followed that thread a couple of days ago... very interesting!

As for sulfur and oxalates, this post and cute related threads are very helpful. My doctor and I had found I need huge amounts of B6...

http://www.beyondmthfr.com/side-high-oxalates-problems-sulfate-b6-gut-methylation/

 

[pamojja]

Here for the pesrpective of nutrient balance with vit C supplementation.

Really loved Acu-cell site the first time I read it many years ago. If only anything it said would also hold true for me..

Mega doses of ascorbic acid should lower copper, in my case after 9 years it did not (serum and whole blood).
.. should lower zinc, in my case .. not.
.. should lower manganese, in my .. not.
.. should lower calcium, .. it normalized it from consistently below normal (serum and hair)
.. should raise vitamin E needs and thereby might cause angina pain, got rid of my angina pain.

If Acu-cell would have got just 1 item right - apologized. But in such a case were all 4 predictions of mega dose ascorbic acid turn out flatly wrong, it remains just an example of different bio-chemical-individuality, but not the least applicable.

 

[student]

There is doctors that have like

R. Cathcart - taken more than 20 thousand patients - trough the high vitamin C experience.

I (student) flushed and have reached my 79 gr Intake. So Let me focus on those 2 (a Groop A) that take beyond 50 gr or (Groop B - in need) easily beyond the 90 gr mark.

A: 50- 80 gr. B: 90- 120 gr. Having reached either of those levels - there may still be 30 gr / or 20 gr to