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"It was quasi-religious":the great self esteem con ....Guardian article

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/jun/03/quasi-religious-great-self-esteem-con

This article about the legacy of John Vasconellos' self esteem movement from 1980's California may (or, equally, may not) be of interest. It struck me as being useful background information about the period when the idea of CBT for ME was developed, and the ideas that were in circulation at the time.

You may see parallels in the scientific integrity behind the differing approaches. I could not possibly comment.
 

chipmunk1

Senior Member
Messages
765
psychonanalysis was discredited by CBT promoters. Self-esteem is now being discredited by Self-acceptance promoters.

One con is being replaced by another.

The new generation need to built their careers on something they came up with but the market for their product has already been cornered by someone else long before them. Not a big problem if you can produce all the 'evidence' that you need. Expose the fraud with your own research, hype your own fraud. Done.

It is also Positive Psychology(old generation) vs. Mindfulness(new generation).

Positive Psychology/CBT:

Any thought other than a positive one is irrational/unhelpful.

Mindfulness:

Just accept things as they are.

BS meter measurements are equally high in both of course. Both sell very well. Taking the place of institutional religion, the biggest and most successful scam of all time.
 
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Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
Mindfulness:

Just accept things as they are.

That's a pretty shallow characterization of mindfulness, which is a subtle concept and practice, with thousands of years of history within the Buddhism tradition, arguably reaching its zenith with Zen. (If like me you are a logical, scientific type, then Zen I think is a good, though rather perplexing, approach to understanding mindfulness).

But I guess it's possible that mindfulness may be taught in a somewhat shallow way these days, as a sort of commercialized "lifestyle accessory" or "business productivity tool". I don't know, I am out of touch, so cannot really judge or comment much about this new incarnation and popularization of mindfulness. This new incarnation is definitely more secular though: it seems to be tailored for the workplace, rather than for personal spiritual growth or formation of character.
 
Messages
2,158
Think I'll just stick with being grumpy:
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I remember learning a bit about mindfulness meditation back in my hippy days in the early 1970's as a Buddhist traditional practice. The westernised commercialised version these days is crap by comparison.
 

Hip

Senior Member
Messages
17,824
I remember learning a bit about mindfulness meditation back in my hippy days in the early 1970's as a Buddhist traditional practice. The westernised commercialised version these days is crap by comparison.

Yeah, it seems that in general, commercialization is the central value these days. It's hard to get away from it. It seems to gobble up other values.
 

aaron_c

Senior Member
Messages
691
I've done some years of Buddhist meditation and I also was exposed to Mindfullness-Based Stress Reduction in school (A semester course...supposedly I can teach it now). MBSR is like the reader's digest version of Buddhist meditation. My guess was that it would work OK if you don't examine it too closely or hold on to it too tightly.
 

IreneF

Senior Member
Messages
1,552
Location
San Francisco
Self-esteem is important. But you can't cultivate it without a deep understanding of its causes, including genetics, early experiences, family background, etc. etc. Handing out ribbons won't do it.
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
Self-esteem. Closely related to the positive thinking movement, or optimism ideology, as I call it.
 
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Snowdrop

Rebel without a biscuit
Messages
2,933
People need to have an appropriate image of themselves. Self esteem doesn't give that.
For the most part few people are willing or able to confront those parts of themselves that are less than their ideal self.

Self esteem is an escape an easy out and it has the draw back that being taught self esteem it's never extended to anyone else outside the self.

Self respect allows for a healthy sense of self while holding ourselves accountable for how we treat ourselves and others.

Self esteem is a fad fed by the media by the gurus of positive thinking. I don't buy it.
 

Oberon

Senior Member
Messages
214
psychonanalysis was discredited by CBT promoters. Self-esteem is now being discredited by Self-acceptance promoters.

One con is being replaced by another.

The new generation need to built their careers on something they came up with but the market for their product has already been cornered by someone else long before them. Not a big problem if you can produce all the 'evidence' that you need. Expose the fraud with your own research, hype your own fraud. Done.

It is also Positive Psychology(old generation) vs. Mindfulness(new generation).

Positive Psychology/CBT:

Any thought other than a positive one is irrational/unhelpful.
Positive Psychology is more in line with Mindfulness than CBT. CBT can be very helpful for those with psychological conditions. If you're suffering depression or anxiety, reframing your thoughts from a different perspective can help change your perception and negative downward spirals. I am by no means saying it's a cure, I still have the same issues irregardless of CBT, but it has definitely helped me and many others I know.

Mindfulness:

Just accept things as they are.

BS meter measurements are equally high in both of course. Both sell very well. Taking the place of institutional religion, the biggest and most successful scam of all time. Both treatments have successfully helped thousands upon thousands of patients. Psychology gets a really bad wrap around phoenix rising because of the impact CBT has caused on damaging patients with for CFS/ME. There is a lot and I mean a lot of quackery in psychology; but it doesn't mean that there isn't some good too.