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What are the possible reasons for 'waking up' in the evening?

Kenny Banya

Senior Member
Messages
356
Location
Australia
Its supposedly rather common for ME/CFS sufferers to be least tired in the evening.
Sleepy all day then become awake in the evening.

What are the suggested physiological reasons for this?
 

Dechi

Senior Member
Messages
1,454
I've read it has to do with adrenal gland fatigue. Can't explain why though.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Have you had this type of cortisol multi-test?
Yes, several times. The first time it was reversed, the second time it was fairly normal, the third time the curve went in the right direction but cortisol was lower than normal at all points tested.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
The explanation must be more than just adrenals, because most of my symptoms often remit in the evenings. This is a fascinating and unexplored component of this disease.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,000
Morningness or eveningness are circadian traits which are genetic
 

Orla

Senior Member
Messages
708
Location
Ireland
Morningness or eveningness are circadian traits which are genetic

I don't think that explains this problem for ME patients. A lot of people experience a change in their sleeping pattern, and their best time of the day, before and after illness.

I used to go to bed around 10pm (sometimes later) and get up between 6-7am before I got sick. Now my ideal sleep time is to fall asleep between 3-4am (I go to bed a few hours before this) and wake between about 11.30am-12.30am.

It is also a bit weird that a person might feel totally out of it all day, but suddenly perk-up after 11pm which happens to me often, and other people that I know of. My most productive hours mentally are often late at night.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,000
I don't think that explains this problem for ME patients. A lot of people experience a change in their sleeping pattern, and their best time of the day, before and after illness.

I used to go to bed around 10pm (sometimes later) and get up between 6-7am before I got sick. Now my ideal sleep time is to fall asleep between 3-4am (I go to bed a few hours before this) and wake between about 11.30am-12.30am.

It is also a bit weird that a person might feel totally out of it all day, but suddenly perk-up after 11pm which happens to me often, and other people that I know of. My most productive hours mentally are often late at night.
I agree that ME throws sleep patterns to hell, i have non 24 hour circadian rhythm disorder, its a royal pita.
It may explain it, it may be part of it, perhaps there is a mechanism we are not aware of, or all of the above we don't really have enough information to come to any scientific conclusion IMO.
 

Orla

Senior Member
Messages
708
Location
Ireland
I agree that ME throws sleep patterns to hell, i have non 24 hour circadian rhythm disorder, its a royal pita.
It may explain it, it may be part of it, perhaps there is a mechanism we are not aware of, or all of the above we don't really have enough information to come to any scientific conclusion IMO.

I agree we can't explain it at this time, but I don't think it has anything to do with lifelong genetic preference as it is a very marked post-ME onset thing for many of us.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,000
I agree we can't explain it at this time, but I don't think it has anything to do with lifelong genetic preference as it is a very marked post-ME onset thing for many of us.
Perhaps, and i have found that sometimes after i am mentally/physically blown out things get easier, though that usually means the PEM is going to hit me even harder. Picking one's poison is not much fun.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
I've found that I've become extremely sensitive to the blue light put out by screens (computer, tablet, phone, etc. and possibly tv). I have to get off the computer by 8pm or it wakes me up in the evening and my sleep moves forward an hour or two. It's tricky because it takes a day or two to show up.

Before I was aware of this, I had a non-24 sleep pattern that constantly moved forward.

I believe this is regulated by the pineal gland.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,000
I've found that I've become extremely sensitive to the blue light put out by screens (computer, tablet, phone, etc. and possibly tv). I have to get off the computer by 8pm or it wakes me up in the evening and my sleep moves forward an hour or two. It's tricky because it takes a day or two to show up.

Before I was aware of this, I had a non-24 sleep pattern that constantly moved forward.

I believe this is regulated by the pineal gland.
Blue light regulates the circadian rhythm, via photoreceptors in our eyes we are not consciously aware of. I have blue light blocking glasses and use them each evening, but they have little effect (maybe 10-20% at most).
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Blue light regulates the circadian rhythm, via photoreceptors in our eyes we are not consciously aware of. I have blue light blocking glasses and use them each evening, but they have little effect (maybe 10-20% at most).

Yes, I've tried the glasses too and they don't work that well. That's why I totally get off the computer.

I think there is also something to mental stimulation keeping you charged up and awake.

These things also affect normals (if you ever look at guidelines for sleep hygiene, they have admonitions about these things), but they seem more sensitive for me since I got sick.
 

Alvin2

The good news is patients don't die the bad news..
Messages
3,000
Yes, I've tried the glasses too and they don't work that well. That's why I totally get off the computer.

I think there is also something to mental stimulation keeping you charged up and awake.

These things also affect normals (if you ever look at guidelines for sleep hygiene, they have admonitions about these things), but they seem more sensitive for me since I got sick.
For me its very different, the mental stimulation has little effect but i have been to several sleep neurologists and done much testing and tried many treatments to little effect, just worse then yours i suppose.