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Trial By Error, Continued: CMRC to Virology Blog: “F**k Off!”

Cheshire

Cheshire

Senior Member
Messages
1,129
Things are heating up:

Trial By Error, Continued: CMRC to Virology Blog: “F**k Off!”
by David Tuller, DrPH

Well, not in those words, of course. It was all very polite. But that was the message.

Here’s what happened. On Monday, I posted an open letter to the members of the board of the CFS/ME Research Collaborative. The letter involved the false accusation of libel that the CMRC’s deputy chair, Esther Crawley, disseminated against me at a conference of renal experts two weeks ago. Because the accusation involved a blog post I wrote for Virology Blog, the accusation of libel also extended to Dr. Racaniello, who hosts this site.
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http://www.virology.ws/2017/05/10/trial-by-error-continued-cmrc-to-virology-blog-fk-off/
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
He explained that the questions I have raised “are not the business” of the collaborative, which after all is a “voluntary” group and has “no official standing.”
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So do they have any official standing when applying for funding? Oh sorry, that's MEGA isn't it, completely different body. Seems they can switch between official and unofficial as it suits them depending on whether they feel like doing anything or not.

Wasn't the open letter addressed to the CMRC board? Isn't that what Sonja Chowdhury said as her excuse for not commenting on it - it was addressed to the CMRC board? So the CMRC response to a letter to the board is for Stephen Holgate to dictate a response to everybody without waiting for the next board meeting, a discussion, a vote? Just "Friends, do this". I wish I could hear him say the word "friends", I wonder if it's pronounced with a false smile, gritted teeth and the hint of a threat? As in "Friends, I would like to suggest ... " or are they all really his friends so no coercion is necessary?

Anyway, great fun to see them shooting themselves in the foot and displaying their true colours to the world again.

And for all the individual board members, charity members and observers at the CMRC, silence isn't enough. Who wouldn't want to distance themselves from this filth?
 
TiredSam

TiredSam

The wise nematode hibernates
Messages
2,677
Location
Germany
Dx Revision Watch said:
Well said.

Behind the scenes: Setting up the UK CFS/ME Research Collaborative (UK CMRC)

Tymes Trust: The inside story on the Collaborative, August 2014

https://www.dropbox.com/s/92m09l9tq55pihh/Behind the Scenes - Research Collaborative.pdf
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Is David Tuller aware that in libelling him, EC was merely following the policy of the CMRC defined at it's inception?

@Dx Revision Watch didn't all members of the collaborative have to sign something agreeing not to criticize (sorry "harrass") their colleagues, and to remain silent if their colleagues decided to indulge in a bit of libel (sorry again, "respond to harrassment")?
 
U

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
Cheshire said:
Things are heating up:

Trial By Error, Continued: CMRC to Virology Blog: “F**k Off!”
by David Tuller, DrPH



http://www.virology.ws/2017/05/10/trial-by-error-continued-cmrc-to-virology-blog-fk-off/
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We should remember that they tried to police their organisation to keep out undesirables who may have 'harassed' researchers. Of course those who continually stigmatize patients were fine. Now their deputy chair is going around harassing other academics by publically accusing them of libel then they actively stay silent.

The UK medical community as represented by people such as Holgate seem determined to back bad science such as PACE and Fitnet-NHS and are happy to try to shut up those raising concerns. They will of course look increasingly isolated and old fashioned to the rest of the world.
 
U

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
TiredSam said:
Is David Tuller aware that in libelling him, EC was merely following the policy of the CMRC defined at it's inception?

@Dx Revision Watch didn't all members of the collaborative have to sign something agreeing not to criticize (sorry "harrass") their colleagues, and to remain silent if their colleagues decided to indulge in a bit of libel (sorry again, "respond to harrassment")?
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Isn't Crawley harassing fellow researchers (Prof Racaniello is a researcher and Tuller is an academic).
 
G

Gijs

Senior Member
Messages
691
People like Holgate, Crawley, White, Chalder etc ... are not interested in the suffering sick CFS / ME patients or the real cause. These people are narcissistic and serve their financial gain. They demonize CFS / ME patients. If karma exists they have a problem. Eventually they will pay the price for their misconduct.
 
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Esther12

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
It's now pretty clear that the culture at the CMRC is founded on worrying attitudes towards open debate and scrutiny. I don't think Holgate is close to having what it takes to move forward research into this condition.
 
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Y

Ysabelle-S

Highly Vexatious
Messages
524
RE: the pathetic response to Tuller's letter. This should not surprise us - just think of the extent to which these people have acted with impunity against a patient group. I point blank refuse to give any money to any ME charity involved in an organisation that wantonly defames seriously ill people. The CRMC deserves to be shunned by patients. I realise the charities will keep making excuses, but the CRMC's arrogance and dismissal of a scandalous episode like this pretty much sums up the mentality involved. We only have to look at the posts on recent pages to see the nature of this organisation, and the problems that have been there right from the beginning.

In other news, saw a tweet from the footballer Stan Collymore earlier relating to a row he had with Piers Morgan. Collymore was speaking about mental health issues, and how they can affect people with money, and referred to three other serious illnesses - cancer, AIDS and ME - that you can get if you're rich in the course of his response. So he ranked ME in there with AIDS and cancer.

Video and article here:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/this-isnt-mood-swing-its-10391636
 
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Binkie4

Binkie4

Senior Member
Messages
644
Does anyone else find the language odd? " Friends".......etc etc.

These are a group of professional colleagues.
It's clear that only a specific few will be invited into their tent.

I am concerned that their approach will never be professional and they are incapable of multidisciplinary science. Those of us with ME will suffer for ever at their hands.

Again how this affects funding applications where these people and their research predominate I really doubt. It's not science. It's the in crowd mentality.
 
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dangermouse

dangermouse

Senior Member
Messages
430
C

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
It would be possible to interpret David Tuller's letter as an invitation to the CMRC to pass a vote of no confidence, in the absence of a prior resignation. Holgate's response is clear enough. It appears to be an expression of confidence. There are other Board members who will, like it or not, be associated with this decision.
 
K

keenly

Senior Member
Messages
814
Location
UK
Gijs said:
People like Holgate, Crawley, White, Chalder etc ... are not interested in the suffering sick CFS / ME patients or the real cause. These people are narcissistic and serve their financial gain. They demonize CFS / ME patients. If karma exists they have a problem. Eventually they will pay the price for their misconduct.
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Indeed and they have people on this site as well!
 
Dx Revision Watch

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
TiredSam said:
Is David Tuller aware that in libelling him, EC was merely following the policy of the CMRC defined at it's inception?

@Dx Revision Watch didn't all members of the collaborative have to sign something agreeing not to criticize (sorry "harrass") their colleagues, and to remain silent if their colleagues decided to indulge in a bit of libel (sorry again, "respond to harrassment")?
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The CMRC Charter for Members originally included this clause:

https://www.actionforme.org.uk/uploads/pdfs/cmrc-charter.pdf

3.2 Applying for membership

3.2.3 Members will be required to sign a declaration that they will not take part in the harassment or abuse of researchers. Neither will they take part in orchestrated campaigns against those conducting peer-reviewed research.

Which by 2016 had been revised to:

3.1.3. All members must not take part in the harassment of researchers including taking part in orchestrated campaigns against those conducting peer-reviewed research. This does not prevent engagement in appropriate scientific debate.

Edited to add:

This version of the Charter dates from August 2016:

https://www.actionforme.org.uk/uploads/pdfs/cmrc-charter-aug-2016.pdf

3.2 Membership Requirements

Good scientific debate promotes and drives the highest quality of basic and applied evidenced based and peer-reviewed research in to CFS/ME and is actively encouraged by the CMRC. This includes respectful debate and objective, constructive criticism in order to encourage critical thinking. Channels for ‘good’ scientific debate include writing letters to journals, asking questions, using established legal channels.
 
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