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Wigan Today: Chronic fatigue sufferers could benefit from new research

One not to look out for, in my opinion.
Research conducted at a Wigan hospital is making advances in treating those with chronic fatigue syndrome.

Dr Raymond Perrin, the lead clinician and researcher for a treatment called the Perrin Technique, which is designed to combat the symptoms of ME- has recently completed the project at Wrightington Hospital. The research, carried out in conjunction with Wrightington, Wigan and Leigh NHS Trust and Lancaster University, is now complete and insights into the life-limiting disease are set to be published in the summer.

Sue Capstick, practice principal at The Bridgeman Physio and Sports Injury Centre in Wigan, said that she is “very proud” that the ground-breaking investigations have taken place in the region. Ms Capstick, who is an advocate and practitioner of The Perrin Technique, said: “This is a bonafide research project done on our own turf.” The aim behind the technique is to reduce the amount of toxins which become trapped in the fluid around the brain and the spinal cord.
http://www.wigantoday.net/news/chronic-fatigue-sufferers-could-benefit-from-new-research-1-8534430
 

RogerBlack

Senior Member
Messages
902
This research must already have been funded, have ethics approval, ...
Can anyone find a link to that?

Dr Perrin`s Theory
The Perrin Technique™ is based on Dr Perrin's theory that different stress factors whether physical, allergies, emotional or infections lead to an overstrain of the sympathetic nervous system. Further investigation has led to a probable cause of this nervous system overload being a build up of toxins in the fluid around the brain and the spinal cord. Some of the poisons caused by infection or inflammation in the head or spine flow through perforations in a bony plate (the cribriform plate) just above the nasal sinuses into the lymph ducts of the face and neck. The toxins are also meant to drain down the spinal cord and out into the lymph ducts lying along the spine. In a CFS/ME sufferer these normal drainage points are congested.

The Perrin Technique™ is an osteopathic approach that manually stimulates the fluid motion around the brain and spinal cord. Manipulation of the spine further aids drainage of these toxins out of the cerebrospinal fluid. Massage of the soft tissues in the head, neck, back and chest direct all the toxins out of the lymphatic system and into the blood, where they are eventually detoxified in the liver. Eventually with no poisons affecting the brain, the sympathetic nervous system begins to function correctly, and providing the patients do not overstrain themselves their symptoms should gradually improve and in time some patients become totally symptom free. To see patients return to their normal healthy lives see the film 'The Perrin Technique' in our:

http://www.theperrinclinic.com/muscle.pdf

http://www.theperrinclinic.com/muscle.pdf
XqSRFev.jpg


I question the technique. But they're actually attempting to then go on and do actual measurements, with real muscle force meters, which is great.
 
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Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
As the earwig said when it fell over a cliff "'Ere we go again".

Blame regression to childhood.
 

ChrisD

Senior Member
Messages
472
Location
East Sussex
Can't stand the stock images they use on these articles for ME/CFS. If you imagine yourself as an outsider looking into the illness and you cast your eye on an article with a stock image of a desk worker with head in hand or a child asleep on a desk, then it will immediately turn off the reader's attention as it just appears as 'run-down' or general fatigue. Somehow we need to not only change the general public's opinion but also the media perspective. I always think that it is quite promising when media outlets start to use fancy graphics of B-cells/Immune cells/Microbiome for CFS articles to validate it as what people perceive as illness or virus.
 

Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
Is there any evidence for the entrapment of toxins in the fluid around the brain and spinal chord? Have they all along been aware of a previously unknown biomarker?
 

Deltrus

Senior Member
Messages
271
Is there any evidence for the entrapment of toxins in the fluid around the brain and spinal chord? Have they all along been aware of a previously unknown biomarker?


Well when I used sauna for a few days I became delirious and had to go to the hospital from all the toxins floating around in my cns. I also have neck tightness. I wouldn't be surprised if there were toxins hidden away.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
I should not be cynical, but I can't help but think that since the NHS has been called out for CBT and GET being ineffective, the next CHEAPEST option is massage. Still, if this one actually helps or makes people feel better and acknowledges a biological factor, it's an improvement.
 

RogerBlack

Senior Member
Messages
902
. I always think that it is quite promising when media outlets start to use fancy graphics of B-cells/Immune cells/Microbiome for CFS articles to validate it as what people perceive as illness or virus.

I disagree.
But what are they actually measuring?


Maximal knee extension force.
Push as hard as you can for 3s, then wait 3 minutes, and 10 reps at 33% of this force, wait 3 mins, and then maximum effort for as long as you can. Measure forces, and surface EMG.

It would in principle be an interesting test, if the second push was lower, due to fatigue.

A major worry with the above study to me is the unexplained difference in force differences betweent he two groups of CFS patients.

The first group (CFS1) was the study group, the second (CFS2) was the control who did not get the laying on of hands.
CFS1 patients had a force of 47, and difference of 13 between first and last, CFS2 however, was 52 (broadly comparable) - but the difference was 2.
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
Well when I used sauna for a few days I became delirious and had to go to the hospital from all the toxins floating around in my cns. I also have neck tightness. I wouldn't be surprised if there were toxins hidden away.

That isn't evidence for toxins, it's evidence that you should stay out of the sauna.

Most of us have very poor tolerance for heat, I wouldn't be surprised if me doing a trip to the sauna was followed by former me doing a trip to the morgue
 
Messages
15,786
Yeah possibly.
The heat badly aggravates any problems with circulation. Usually when hot our blood vessels dilate and move closer to the surface of our skin. This lets the warm blood be cooled by the cooler air.

But when in a hot environment, this cooling mechanism completely fails. Heart rate rises to try to pump blood faster to the places where it can be cooled, but it's not finding those places, because there aren't any.

Healthy people can handle this at certain temperatures for a limited amount of time. Sick people usually can't handle this, which is why people with certain conditions (pregnancy, heart problems) are expressly forbidden to use hot tubs or saunas.

This is why I can't take baths anymore, and keep my shower from getting too hot, and the air circulating. If I do take a bath, my heart rate rises substantially and can take days to go back to normal.
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
Don't have a bath, but hot showers are a mixed bag for me. They can be quite tiring if they go on for very long. On the other hand, they are very good for helping aching muscles to relax, and encouraging blood flow near the skin.

I find ending a hot shower with 30-60 seconds of relatively cold water works well. (By relatively cold I mean 20-25 degrees C, not barely above freezing.)
 
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Large Donner

Senior Member
Messages
866
I should not be cynical, but I can't help but think that since the NHS has been called out for CBT and GET being ineffective, the next CHEAPEST option is massage. Still, if this one actually helps or makes people feel better and acknowledges a biological factor, it's an improvement.

Ye except they will then come up with online massage or a self help massage dvd cos massage costs about £50 session. They may even come up with a scheme for a free diary to fill in to keep details of "how i massaged my own back today", to be taken to the GP to review.
 
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Chrisb

Senior Member
Messages
1,051
I have been trying to envisage what sort of contractual, licensing and fee (in either direction) arrangements would have to be in place to enable an NHS Hospital to conduct a trial of a process trademarked and licensed by one of its staff members. It will be interesting to see details of the funding arrangements.

It would be interesting to see how nhs time and facilities are costed and whether full costs are recouped from the trademark owner.

Perhaps all will become clear. I am not confident.