Detection of Urine Metabolites in a Rat Model of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome before and after Exercise

[CFS_for_19_years]

Methods. A rat model of CFS was established using restraint-stress, forced exercise, and crowded and noisy environments over a period of 4 weeks.

If scientists still don't understand what CFS/ME actually is, or even have a test that can identify it, how could they possibly expect to "recreate" it?

How could they assume that stressing rats out for a month is the equivalent to having CFS/ME? This sounds like a complete waste of money and time. Any results they find will be useless because they are not working with a CFS/ME model.

Forced swimming has also been used as a rat model to replicate CFS. Here's another discussion of a study using rats:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...n-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.47204/#post-771223

See what came up on a search of PubMed:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cfs rats forced swimming:

A Chinese herbal decoction, Danggui Buxue Tang, improves chronic fatigue syndrome induced by food restriction and forced swimming in rats.

Astragalus membranaceus flavonoids (AMF) ameliorate chronic fatigue syndrome induced by food intake restriction plus forced swimming.

Effect of manual acupuncture stimulation of "Baihui" (GV 20), etc. on serum IFN-gamma and IL-4 contents in rats with chronic fatigue syndrome

Effect of acupuncture intervention on learning-memory ability and cerebral superoxide dismutase activity and malonaldehyde concentration in chronic fatigue syndrome rats

Effect of natural and synthetic antioxidants in a mouse model of chronic fatigue syndrome

Evaluation of protective effect of Aegle marmelos Corr. in an animal model of chronic fatigue syndrome

 

[JaimeS]

hard to 'like' that @CFS_for_19_years

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

hard to 'like' that @CFS_for_19_years

At least they now have a model for giving acupuncture to over-exercised rats. At least it sounds sciencey.

 

[HowToEscape?]

Exac

Are u seriously gonna claim that a voluntary intermittent ride in a subway car equals being put in a crowded 20 cm cage against your "will", whilst being subjected to extremely loud continuous alien noise (from their point of view)? You dont spend 4 hours in a subway car, and rats cant use headphones.

During my time in the army i had to torture people under elite training, and I can tell you they would have it a 100 times better in the scenario ur describing.

Exactly: that army training was surely 100 times more intense than what the rats got.

Pretty cool job I must say, far beats cubicle drone camp.

 

[IreneF]

Forced swimming has also been used as a rat model to replicate CFS. Here's another discussion of a study using rats:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...n-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.47204/#post-771223

See what came up on a search of PubMed:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=cfs rats forced swimming:

A Chinese herbal decoction, Danggui Buxue Tang, improves chronic fatigue syndrome induced by food restriction and forced swimming in rats.

Astragalus membranaceus flavonoids (AMF) ameliorate chronic fatigue syndrome induced by food intake restriction plus forced swimming.

Effect of manual acupuncture stimulation of "Baihui" (GV 20), etc. on serum IFN-gamma and IL-4 contents in rats with chronic fatigue syndrome

Effect of acupuncture intervention on learning-memory ability and cerebral superoxide dismutase activity and malonaldehyde concentration in chronic fatigue syndrome rats

Effect of natural and synthetic antioxidants in a mouse model of chronic fatigue syndrome

Evaluation of protective effect of Aegle marmelos Corr. in an animal model of chronic fatigue syndrome

The forced swim test is used to see if rats are depressed. You plop them into a deep pool of water and time how long it takes them to give up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioural_despair_test
Needless to say, there are a lot of problems with this test.

 

[Murph]

This model does seem bad. But I can't dismiss it entirely since it yielded a sphingolipid result. Perhaps it manages to replicate some of the important features of CFS? After all, that's all a model is: a set of useful features. I'd want to know more.

As for making a more plausible model. It might be interesting to get rats, exercise them hard then hit them with a virus and see if a proportion never quite recover. That is an experiment I'd like to see.

 

[RogerBlack]

Also, a noninvasive test, such as a urine test is of course better than blood, if it works, and applied to CFS.
An objective measure of fatigue, even if it wasn't CFS fatigue in urine would perhaps be useful as an objective measurement for trials, or even home monitoring.

 

[Snow Leopard]

Do you think there is a computer programme that checks what US scientists have found and invents results the next day in China for submission to a journal of choice by lunchtime?

Yes, down to the choice of rock music.

 

[IreneF]

This model does seem bad. But I can't dismiss it entirely since it yielded a sphingolipid result. Perhaps it manages to replicate some of the important features of CFS? After all, that's all a model is: a set of useful features. I'd want to know more.

As for making a more plausible model. It might be interesting to get rats, exercise them hard then hit them with a virus and see if a proportion never quite recover. That is an experiment I'd like to see.

If hard exercise induced CFS then army recruits and athletes would be in for it. And, in fact, military installations are good places for diseases to spread.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

This model does seem bad. But I can't dismiss it entirely since it yielded a sphingolipid result. Perhaps it manages to replicate some of the important features of CFS? After all, that's all a model is: a set of useful features. I'd want to know more.

As for making a more plausible model. It might be interesting to get rats, exercise them hard then hit them with a virus and see if a proportion never quite recover. That is an experiment I'd like to see.

If hard exercise induced CFS then army recruits and athletes would be in for it. And, in fact, military installations are good places for diseases to spread.

As someone who trained hard as a competitive swimmer in college while living in a crowded dormitory that housed several other swim team members, I don't recall that any one of us came down with ME/CFS. At least I didn't until 17 years later. So to their silly model of exercising rats.