Exploring DETOX of heavy metals with extreme fatigue--what are your ideas??

[grapes]

I had to detox high heavy metals (copper was one of them too high) a year ago, then again a few months ago. And as you will read, there will be fatigue involved. But my fatigue was ten ton fatigue--much more debilitating than I've heard of anyone having from detoxing.

Now yes, I do have a mitochondrial problem, but I seem to be fine when I'm not detoxing with the right supplements, which include pqq, high dose coq10 ubiquinol, l-carnitine and a few others. i.e. I have what feels like the right amount of energy. But as soon as I start to detox....it's like I fall down a deep, dark crack in the earth to some of the worst kind of fatigue one can imagine. It hinders my abilities to do anything.

And I'd like to know why!!!

1) DETOX GENES: I first wondered if I have mutations that make me detox far too aggressively, like an up-regulation detox issue. The only ++ homozygous showing is CTH rs1021737, which shows a higher risk for high homocysteine, but mine isn't high at all. There are four +- heterozygous in the CYP's, but all show "ambiguous" results. I also have two NAT2 hetero's, but nothing I see fits having a too aggressive detox gene.

2) MITOCHONDRIAL: I then moved to my mitochondria issues, asking myself: Do I just not have a good enough mito function to respond well to a detox? I have wondered about that. But the second time I detoxed with that kind of fatigue, I had been supplementing for my mito very well, yet still the same massive fatigue.

3) METHYLATION: I do have several mutations that can be effecting methylation. Even though I'm only hetero for MTHFR 1298, I have several issues with both mao-a and moa-b, COMT, mtrr and others. But I had been treating them, and still the debilitating fatigue with detox. Would being a high adrenaline person cause detoxing to wipe me out? I don't know. I wish I did.

Anyway, that's the question and if you have any ideas why someone would have this kind of massive, debilitating fatigue with detoxing....much more than I've seen anyone else describe, I'd love ideas to explore!

P.S. Forgot to add--I did try taking extra niacin and potassium to see if that would help the extreme fatigue, but only tried two days and didn't see any change. Maybe try longer??

 

[keenly]

I had to detox high heavy metals (copper was one of them too high) a year ago, then again a few months ago. And as you will read, there will be fatigue involved. But my fatigue was ten ton fatigue--much more debilitating than I've heard of anyone having from detoxing.

Now yes, I do have a mitochondrial problem, but I seem to be fine when I'm not detoxing with the right supplements, which include pqq, high dose coq10 ubiquinol, l-carnitine and a few others. i.e. I have what feels like the right amount of energy. But as soon as I start to detox....it's like I fall down a deep, dark crack in the earth to some of the worst kind of fatigue one can imagine. It hinders my abilities to do anything.

And I'd like to know why!!!

1) DETOX GENES: I first wondered if I have mutations that make me detox far too aggressively, like an up-regulation detox issue. The only ++ homozygous showing is CTH rs1021737, which shows a higher risk for high homocysteine, but mine isn't high at all. There are four +- heterozygous in the CYP's, but all show "ambiguous" results. I also have two NAT2 hetero's, but nothing I see fits having a too aggressive detox gene.

2) MITOCHONDRIAL: I then moved to my mitochondria issues, asking myself: Do I just not have a good enough mito function to respond well to a detox? I have wondered about that. But the second time I detoxed with that kind of fatigue, I had been supplementing for my mito very well, yet still the same massive fatigue.

3) METHYLATION: I do have several mutations that can be effecting methylation. Even though I'm only hetero for MTHFR 1298, I have several issues with both mao-a and moa-b, COMT, mtrr and others. But I had been treating them, and still the debilitating fatigue with detox. Would being a high adrenaline person cause detoxing to wipe me out? I don't know. I wish I did.

Anyway, that's the question and if you have any ideas why someone would have this kind of massive, debilitating fatigue with detoxing....much more than I've seen anyone else describe, I'd love ideas to explore!

P.S. Forgot to add--I did try taking extra niacin and potassium to see if that would help the extreme fatigue, but only tried two days and didn't see any change. Maybe try longer??

hi there
Run a hair minerals test to see what you are excreting. I am same as you. Just got my results back last night: I am excreting high levels of tin and mercury!! The highest I have ever excreted. No wonder I have had a terrible month.

 

[grapes]

Hi. Did a hair minerals test the first time which proved I was high in copper and lead, so first detox and MASSIVE fatigue. Second time of detox happened by accident with a supplement I was taking for something else, but was clearly detoxing copper again with MASSIVE fatigue. Now detoxing copper AGAIN a third time by accident based on a methylation supp I started to take...and again, MASSIVE fatigue. So irritating to have this kind of debilitating fatigue.

I did get relief the second time around with much higher dose CoQ10 (ubiquinol), but sure is expensive. I'm trying higher doses now---close to 2000 mg, then will make my way up to 3000 mg until or if I find some relief.

 

[grapes]

The more I think about this extreme fatigue with detoxing, the more I wonder if detoxing is "driving" something in me to the extreme....thus the awful fatigue. When I'm detoxing, my nighttimes can be a nightmare. I do fall asleep fast, but I wake up constantly during the night. And I feel in high gear, physically. So upon waking the next morning, I can feel the physical fatigue of my body....and it's even worse after I get up.

I do have mutations in MOA-A and MOA-B.....and I wonder if detoxing turns those up with adrenaline....

 

[jason30]

I have the same.
What is the status of your nutrients which are involved in the phase 2 liver detoxification?

See also: https://www.thepaleomom.com/the-best-foods-and-nutrients-to-support-liver-detox/

 

[caledonia]

What exactly are you using to detox (chelate?) from metals? The exact supplements, amounts, and timing of the doses. What kind of testing did you do to determine what metals you have?

Depending on what you're doing, it could be impacting your adrenals.

I suggest using only the Cutler frequent dose chelation protocol for chelation, as the safest, most effective protocol.

Here is a page on what not to do, things which make people worse - are you doing any of these?
http://cutlersuccessstories.weebly.com/what-not-to-do.html

 

[grapes]

Just now seeing Jason30's and Caledonia's replies. I actually am taking a LOT of nutrients plus liver support, and nothing changes the extreme...and I mean extreme reaction I get soon after I start detoxing which causes massive fatigue the entire time..and which goes away after my body stops detoxing. No, my adrenals only seem to be impacted around dinnertime and into the evening, and this only starts after many weeks of the detox---I can tell my cortisol and adrenaline goes high at that time, but I knock it down with key adaptogens.

So because this extreme reaction only occurs when I start to detox...and ends when the detox ends...I lean to believe it's somehow "activating" something. That's how this feels subjectively....

And I may now have a clue....

1) I had an appointment with a naturopath who was also a DO, not one week after I started to detox and was having horrific fatigue....and she did this hands-on thing with me...first under my back just holding her hands there awhile, then on my shoulders for awhile--just holding her hands there, then on my feet...holding her hands awhile....and I was shocked to notice that after awhile, my nerves starting firing off all over my body. Similar to that single twitch you might get, coming from what feels like a nerve firing off. But I was having several. It struck me that my body was a "nerve wreck" while detoxing...like it sets of all sorts of little fires all over my body, and perhaps that was causing my debilitating detox fatigue....

2) That I started a Meyer's Cocktail infusion. The first one didn't produce much effect--I was curious what it might do. It was pretty standard--Vitamin C, B12, B-vitamins, minerals, etc. But the second one---whoa. The effect was obvious and amazing. It took away what I would say is 85% of the fatigue that day and the next two days...and I felt better in numerous ways. What was in that second one that was different than the first?? Taurine and l-tryptophan.

And I lean to believe it was the taurine that produced this amazing effect. Taurine, after GABA, is the second most important inhibitory neurotransmitter in the brain. Its inhibitory effect is one source of taurine’s anticonvulsant and anti-anxiety properties. (https://www.dcnutrition.com/amino-acids/sulfur-amino-acids-cysteine-taurine-methionine-homocysteine/) And I know my doc put that in there because she noticed the same nerve-firing response in my body that day.

But let's look deeper---I have mutations that mean I run on high adrenaline. I've noticed that about myself but didn't know why until I did my genetics via 23andme.com And voila---there was the reason. I have several MAO mutations, plus four homozygous GAD mutations....all which increase my adrenaline, and explain my lifelong trait of pushing myself. And it dawned on me...does the stress of detox activate these mutations even more?? OR does the stress of detox simply make these already-activated mutations even worse?? I do wonder if this partly explains why detoxing will debilitate me with the worse physical fatigue you can imagine. It can literally be so bad that I can't shower without having to go to bed for hours afterwards.