• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Is twisting the wrists while sleeping some kind of symptom?

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
If you figure it out, let me know. I'm not quite so sensitive now, but for sure I have a way to go.
Well, my current supplementation regime + probiotics has been very helpful - no joint pain, but then it could be my oxalate avoidance o_O

I don't think I will ever eat spinach or sweet potato again :nervous:
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Gondwanaland I'm not clear. I thought it was histamine, like pumpkin, but it's not on that list. not oxalates, carrots are high ox and not a problem. Nor is it gluten cross-reactive or on the autoimmune list. So I guess I could try it, but at this point, I'm not even motivated. right is easy.:rolleyes:
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
If you figure it out, let me know. I'm not quite so sensitive now, but for sure I have a way to go.
Well fixing anemia apparently solved it

I would also like to bring this info to the context here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/filled-paper-requests.22559/page-17#post-647929
Saffron causing reduced RBCs... Not that I eat any saffron more often than 1x yearly, but I wonder how everything else impacts RBC levels, or iron, ferritin, etc and if this is the problem causing the wrists to curl. Yes, I am still "locking" my wrists in a strange way especially between 3 and 7 AM, and especially on a bad night's sleep :confused:
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Well fixing anemia apparently solved it

I would also like to bring this info to the context here:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/filled-paper-requests.22559/page-17#post-647929
Saffron causing reduced RBCs... Not that I eat any saffron more often than 1x yearly, but I wonder how everything else impacts RBC levels, or iron, ferritin, etc and if this is the problem causing the wrists to curl. Yes, I am still "locking" my wrists in a strange way especially between 3 and 7 AM, and especially on a bad night's sleep :confused:
I've been doing it lately again, too.

Interesting about iron levels, let me see what I can figure out about myself with respect to iron.
 

picante

Senior Member
Messages
829
Location
Helena, MT USA
Then the agronomist came by to visit my mother, and we told her about the neighbor's and the baby's symptoms, and she confirmed that those were As symptoms.
Horrific! If people only knew, sigh! Saw my neighbor was out staining their deck this summer. She has MS. No respirator, nothing. Do I even waste my breath?
 

picante

Senior Member
Messages
829
Location
Helena, MT USA
What a surprise: that falcon position is how I used to sleep. Now it torques my neck. I adopted Esther Gokhale's side sleeping position a few years ago, and I like it. Complete with the thin padding under the waist, because my hip/waist ratio is unusually large.
 
Messages
43
I wish there was a list of different odd symptoms and what they might mean. Is there?? Here is my weird list:

  • Nail cuticles dug into palms when I wake up -Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • Deep bone pain - Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • Shooting pain from my neck to shoulder -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Can't taste sweet things -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Wet feeling on my leg -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Constipation for more than 1 day - Potassium deficiency
  • Fever for weeks - Too much iodine
 

Critterina

Senior Member
Messages
1,238
Location
Arizona, USA
I wish there was a list of different odd symptoms and what they might mean. Is there?? Here is my weird list:

  • Nail cuticles dug into palms when I wake up -Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • Deep bone pain - Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • Shooting pain from my neck to shoulder -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Can't taste sweet things -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Wet feeling on my leg -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • Constipation for more than 1 day - Potassium deficiency
  • Fever for weeks - Too much iodine
Have you got relief from all those things by treating the deficiencies you list? I know there are several other causes for some of them:
  • Nail cuticles dug into palms when I wake up -nervous tension, possible GABA deficiency
  • Deep bone pain - Bone cancer, protein deficiency/muscle wasting - may not be due to low protein diet if digestion is not working correctly
  • Shooting pain from my neck to shoulder - Thoracic outlet syndrome, low magnesium, cervical stenosis (nerve impingement)
  • Can't taste sweet things - high blood sugar, diabetes
  • Wet feeling on my leg - neuropathy
  • Constipation for more than 1 day - now for some of us, this is just how we were born...but hypothyroidism, opiate use, low fiber diet, not enough fat in the diet, IBS
  • Fever for weeks - infection, autoimmune syndromes
I appreciate your sleuthing. And I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just that there are many possible causes, and it's good not to jump to conclusions.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
My current take on it
  • Nail cuticles dug into palms when I wake up -Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • vit B2 deficiency (I had the most relaxing experience the other night when I woke up at 3AM with dry mucosa (eyes, mouth, throat) and twisted wrists and then took B2 (I knew I needed it b/c I had taken melatonin at bed time and methyl donors increase the need for B2)
  • Deep bone pain - Vitamin D3 deficiency
  • vit B2 deficiency (because I get deep bone pain from taking B6 which can also deplete B2)
  • Shooting pain from my neck to shoulder -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • high blood pressure which can be relieved by B2 and/or B6
  • Can't taste sweet things -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • high blood sugar, diabetes
    I have no experience with this, but if it is from hyperglycemia/hyperinsulinism, then the antidote is B2+B6
  • Wet feeling on my leg -Vitamin B12 deficiency
  • neuropathy
    I think we all agree that this can be B12 deficiency (too much B2/B6 can increase the need for B12)
  • Constipation for more than 1 day - Potassium deficiency
  • now for some of us, this is just how we were born...but hypothyroidism, opiate use, low fiber diet, not enough fat in the diet, IBS
    I have been constipated my whole life, except for when I lived in Germany and ate German rye bread everyday. Unfortunately eating wheat, rye, barley or oats isn't something I can tolerate anymore. Oddly taking magnesium never helped me in this front, but now I am planning to supplement with B2/B6 and hope to improve magnesium metabolism since I do not tolerate potassium supplementation.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
I don't eat too many oxalate containing foods, but I did start making a coconut curry again, maybe that's it, it has a carrot and some spinach in it.
Coconut is high amines, spinach is high amines and oxalates - they both increase your need for DAO/MAO (B2+B6)

terrible edema around my eyes
I got that from Biotin supplementation and then anaphylaxis and hives (B6 depletion).

Do you find it strange that a spice, turmeric, high in oxalates are good for cancer?
I think that the fact that turmeric is a methyl donor is what brings benefits (needs a lot of B6 to tolerate it due to oxalates). I will stay with coconut oil (needs only a modest amount of B2 to be tolerated).

That's what I'm talking about, not everyone has oxalate problem, so if oxalates in foods were poison, everyone would have the problem. Even I didn't have the problem until a certain point in my life. I tend to think of oxalate sensitivity as a clue instead of thinking of oxalates as a poison and cause of disease. Maybe there is a way to overdo high oxalate foods, but the extreme sensitivity to average amounts might be a sign that something else is wrong.
Oxalate sensitivity is helped by taking B6. To me B6 is only tolerable if I also take B2.
(RE SWEET POTATOES) I thought it was histamine, like pumpkin, but it's not on that list. not oxalates, carrots are high ox and not a problem.
Both high oxalate foods (sweet potato) and high histamine foods (pumpkin) increase the need for B6 and B2 (and associated minerals like Mg, Mn, Zn, Cu, Fe etc)
 
Messages
43
I appreciate your sleuthing. And I'm not saying you're wrong. It's just that there are many possible causes, and it's good not to jump to conclusions.

Thank you for making that clear. Yes these are things for me that resolve with the given vitamins. I just wish there was a list somewhere that had everyone's experience.
 

Paralee

Senior Member
Messages
571
Location
USA
@Gondwanaland et al, night terrors, or so I've read, are related to narcolepsy, at least 4 out of my 5 kids had night terrors, trying to remember about the 5th one, maybe not.

re: sweet potatoes, carrots, etc. may have another problem, malabsorbtion or conversion. I can absorb beta carotene but evidently I can't convert it to vit. A, so since it can be absorbed through the receptors I probably shouldn't eat any colored (orange yellow etc.) vegetable.

Then we go to the thyroid and goitrogens (sp?), another no-no because of hashi's. Then there's high oxalates with a lot of plants. OK, this is getting ridiculous, right? Because I think there's more that I'm not remembering at the moment........my point (I really do have one) is maybe I am a supertaster for a reason? A real one, been tested.

And I also ramble, one thought leads to another. Just ask my poor Hubs, I leave him in the middle of one conversation topic to something totally different.

This started out just to mention other possibilities or maybe things tied together in some other way....or maybe a dot is missing.....