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Love and hate for vitamin B6

PeterPositive

Senior Member
Messages
1,426
Thanks, Peter, I unfortunately bought it before asking, and have taken it a few times. I took it in the evening and I thought it was causing bad dreams. Maybe it's because the keto-glutarate is a precursor to glutamine. It was a lot more expensive than the mix of P5P and pyridoxine I had been using, which I will switch back to.
Taking B vitamins in the evening is not a good idea as they tend to be stimulants.
For some people this is not the case but if you're experimenting it's better to do it during the day where you can benefit of the energy boost / alertness etc...

good luck
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
2,895
Taking B vitamins in the evening is not a good idea as they tend to be stimulants.
For some people this is not the case but if you're experimenting it's better to do it during the day where you can benefit of the energy boost / alertness etc...

good luck
Okay, thanks, Peter. I'll try taking it in the AM for a couple of days.
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
Adding some interesting info:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2088627-overview#a2
Conditions associated with vitamin B6 deficiency include the following:
Factors that may increase the risk of vitamin B6 deficiency include the following:
Marked increases in serum pyridoxal phosphate (PLP) levels are seen inhypophosphatasia.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/2088627-overview#a4
Laboratory methods to detect deficiency are as follows:
  • Pyridoxine level in blood
  • Xanthurenic-acid level in urine
  • Erythrocyte glutamic oxalo-acetic transaminase
  • Lymphocytic growth response
Other manifestations of vitamin B6 deficiency may include the following:
  • Scaling of the skin
  • Severe gingivitis
  • Cheilosis
  • Stomatitis
  • Irritability
  • Weakness
  • Dizziness
  • Diarrhea
Considerations
Manifestations of vitamin B6 toxicity may include tachypnea and/or the following neurologic effects:
  • Sensory neuropathy (eg, burning pains, paresthesias, perioral numbness)
  • Progressive sensory ataxia
  • Impaired proprioception
  • Impaired vibration sense
  • Diminished tendon reflexes
http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/vitamin-b6/safety/hrb-20058788
Vitamin B6 may cause abnormal heart rhythms, acne, allergic reactions, breast enlargement or soreness, changes in folic acid levels, decreased muscle tone, drowsiness or sedation, feeling of a lump in the throat, feeling of tingling on the skin, headache, heartburn, loss of appetite, nausea, rash, recurrence of ulcerative colitis (an inflammatory bowel disorder), stomach discomfort or pain, sun sensitivity, vomiting, and worsened asthma.

Side effects to some ingredients of high-dose pyridoxine hydrochloride (which is injected into the vein) are possible.

Vitamin B6 may cause low blood pressure. Caution is advised in people with blood pressure disorders or in those taking drugs or herbs and supplements that lower blood pressure.

Vitamin B6 may affect blood sugar levels. Caution is advised in people with diabetes or low blood sugar, and in those taking drugs, herbs, or supplements that affect blood sugar. Blood sugar levels may need to be monitored by a qualified healthcare professional, including a pharmacist, and medication adjustments may be necessary.

Vitamin B6 may increase the risk of bleeding. Caution is advised in people with bleeding disorders or taking drugs that may increase the risk of bleeding. Dosing adjustments may be necessary.

Use cautiously in people who have heart conditions or stomach and intestine conditions.

Use cautiously in people taking agents for Parkinson's disease, as they may interact with vitamin B6.
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminB6-Consumer/
Most people in the United States get enough vitamin B6 from the foods they eat. However, certain groups of people are more likely than others to have trouble getting enough vitamin B6:
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
Wow! Been trying some B6 lately in form of P5P. Opened up a 50 mg capsule & eyeballed about a 1/8 tsp of powder.

First response - quite heightened fatigue/drowsiness the next day.

Second time - eyeballed perhaps a bit less - second response: like speed!!! Couldn't sleep a wink, next morning, so much stimulation in my brain. I'm tired/++super wired.

Just ran my genetics through LiveWello & apparently I have a snp that lends itself to lower B6: CC genotype for rs4654748

Well that explains some things.

I also found out that I have MAOB issues not MAOA issues.

So... just pondering/figuring out how to perhaps support B6 in more limited doses without the binge/purge serotonin action that seems to be going on with ++drowsiness/hyperstimulation.

Might just avoid the B6 thing all together, dunno. I'm appreciating everyone's previous posts - thank-you.

Star
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
I also found out that I have MAOB issues not MAOA issues.
My husband and I have similar reaction to P5P - I am +/+ MAO-A and he is - MAO-A. We both get headaches and nausea from high serotonin after a few days - it is cummulative just like histamine.

B6 must be balanced with B2 and magnesium which breakdown serotonin.

Welcome back!
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
My husband and I have similar reaction to P5P - I am +/+ MAO-A and he is - MAO-A. We both get headaches and nausea from high serotonin after a few days - it is cummulative just like histamine.

B6 must be balanced with B2 and magnesium which breakdown serotonin.

Welcome back!
Thanks @Gondwanaland :)

Funny that you say that. I was like --- hey this feels like a histamine reaction.

And thank-you kindly for the advice re: B2 & magnesium. I was already sniffing out some magnesium but haven't thought about B2.

Happy holidays to everyone!

Star
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
Happy holidays to you too!

Watch out for further depletions by B6 down the road... It uses up lots of minerals.
 
Messages
15,786
Just ran my genetics through LiveWello & apparently I have a snp that lends itself to lower B6: CC genotype for rs4654748
CC is the more common version for that SNP. It would be more accurate to say that CT or TT raises B6 levels a little bit. And it's a pretty small amount of difference, so it wouldn't be causing any problems on its own.
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
@Gondwanaland
A big big thank-you for starting this post & providing all the information that you have. It has been so very helpful. I love this forum & the people here. It is such a good thing that we are part of supporting each other in this way.

My question from Alison Vickery http://alisonvickery.com.au/why-your-vitamin-b6-level-is-important/:

Dosage is usually 0.25mg – 0.5mg Vitamin B6, and 0.25mg – 0.5mg P5p

Does she mean total amount per day? Someone suggested in the comments per pound of body weight: "That dose is below the RDA of 1.3mg/day. Maybe you meant .25-.5mg per pound of body weight? That would make more sense."

If that's what she means per day. Wow that is low. My only question is - is it effective at this low? I dunno. Maybe it's my old brain thinking here. The more = better conditioning that I have with supplements. When I started taking methylation supplements definitely a little went a looooong ways, lol.

Got an hour or two of sleep tonight. Totally feeling the anorexia, headaches, nausea from the serotonin overdose. I hope it passes soon.

You mentioned B2 helps. I picked some up yesterday. I was a little reluctant to try something new due to my body freaking out. But now I'm tempted after reading more in this thread to take some B2. I tried some magnesium last night. Just took a tiny amount. Helped a bit. I'm sensitive to magnesium too. So likely if I keep my dose small right now some calming benefits could be obtained from the magnesium.

Thanks again!
Star
 

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
If that's what she means per day. Wow that is low. My only question is - is it effective at this low?
The max amount I take daily is 1 mg of non-coenzymated form. Boy is it effective :wide-eyed:

I used to take 10 - 30 mg of regular B6 in my B complex and all I could feel was deficiency symptoms.

Then one day I started taking biotin 500mcg. In the 3rd day I had anaphylaxis, hives all over the body and swollen mucosa in throat and mouth. Then I took 3mg P5P and in minutes it all went away. Plus I felt great. So I kept taking P5P 3 - 6 mg daily and after 2 weeks of feeling awesome and having ditched all my thyroid replacement I started to have a serotonin syndrome - nausea, headache, sweating. Then I took B2 and it went away. Then I got hypothyroid and had to restart my hormone replacement. I did try iodine at some point but my autoimmunity can't handle it.

I think that some people like me have a huge burden of uric acid deposited in the tissues to be mobilized and this is what causes problems. When the uric acid is mobilized, there is a surge in salicylate sensitivity, increasing the need for B5 and magnesium.

Don't forget that B6 needs zinc (a mineral which I don't tolerate - I suspect it mobilizes uric acid).

EDIT -- B6 protects the kidneys against oxalates and uric acid - this is something I am still looking itno
 
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Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,092
So @Star-Anise I forgot to add that after this experience with P5P even the tiniest amount of P5P would cause me hypothyroid symptoms, but OTOH now I finally feel good effects from taking regular B6 - like it is finally getting activated endogenously again.

May 21, 2008

Vitamin B6 RDA questioned
An epidemiological study published in the May, 2008 issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition reported the finding of researchers at Tufts University that inadequate vitamin B6 levels are common among the U.S. population, particularly in certain groups. The vitamin is essential for red blood cell function, and is also involved in maintaining a healthy immune system.

Epidemiologist Martha Savaria Morris, PhD, of Tufts' Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging and her colleagues evaluated plasma levels of pyridoxal-5'-phosphate (PLP), an indicator of vitamin B6 status, in blood samples collected from 7,822 participants in the 2003-2004 National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES). Vitamin B6 intake levels were estimated from the participants' responses to queries concerning diet and supplement use.

While 11 percent of vitamin B6 supplement users had inadequate PLP levels of less than 20 nanomoles per liter, nearly a quarter of those who did not supplement were found to be inadequate. "Across the study population, we noticed participants with inadequate vitamin B6 status even though they reported consuming more than the Recommended Daily Allowance of vitamin B6, which is less than 2 milligrams per day. We also identified four subgroups where this trend seemed most prominent: women of reproductive age, especially current and former users of oral contraceptives, male smokers, non-Hispanic African-American men, and men and women over age 65," Dr Morris observed. "Three quarters of the women who reported using oral contraceptives, but not vitamin B6 supplements, were vitamin B6 deficient."

The study is the first of its kind to utilize plasma pyridoxal-5'-phosphate levels to evaluate vitamin B6 levels among people of all ages. "The question our study raises is whether, due to aging, genetics, or exposures, some population subgroups need supplements to achieve the current biochemical definition of adequate status," Dr Morris concluded.
So according to the above, it seems that there are environmental factors that block endogenous B6 activation.
 

Star-Anise

Senior Member
Messages
218
Already feeling better from about 10mg B2 & an anti-histamine. Whoo!:thumbsup: @Gondwanaland - you are a lifesaver! My head was getting into the *crazy-zone* that's the closest I have felt to needing to be on the psych ward!

Star:balloons::balloons::balloons:
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
362
Great thread. I’m currently trying to figure out the balance of all the b vitamins, and as of today realized p5p gives me tachypnea, tinnitus, crazy stimulation, Insomnia and bizarre skin sensitivity (my beard feels extra prickly). This is all from 25mg p5p a day for 3 days. The kicker is it definitely clears my brain fog, but at 15mg I still have some brain fog (unless I didn’t give 15mg enough time to work).

And I realize this is an old one; just hoping y’all are still around and have figured more out!
 
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PennyIA

Senior Member
Messages
728
Location
Iowa
And I realize this is an old one; just hoping y’all are still around and have figured more out!

Wish I had better knowledge. Last I've heard is that it might be good to try p5p, but if you have a bad reaction to try the regular b6 along with p5p. I've not tried it yet as I'm currently having horrid side effects if I take any supplements at all at this point. Not sure if I've messed things up permanently, if things just need to get out of my system, or if in fact, I fixed something that wasn't broken before which is now causing issues further downstream in the health process.

Best educated guess is that my body has suddenly started to really dump toxins out at a much higher rate than a normal person but that the 'clean up process' that would typically occur to transport these toxins out of my system isn't working correctly. Instead my body is tryiing to encapsulate the toxins in painful, fatty, 'harmless - ha', tumors. Pain is horrid. I go through bad episodes that seem to last right around 3 months; bounce back less and less each time. Current working theory is that if I hadn't had methylation issues and issues with some processes that helped keep toxin processing at perfect performance I might have had this other issue longer... but because those are working better now, it's uncovered other, previously unknown, health concerns. Trying to go supplement free pretty much sucks because I really did enjoy the boost of energy most of my b vitamins provided.
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
362
I’m pretty sure I’ve done the same thing: started a process I can’t stop now or fixed something that wasn’t broke (100% unintentionally as well).

Its been 4 days off p5p and still have insomnia!!!
 

GreenMachineX

Senior Member
Messages
362
I’m pretty sure I’ve done the same thing: started a process I can’t stop now or fixed something that wasn’t broke (100% unintentionally as well).

Its been 4 days off p5p and still have insomnia!!!
Well, to clarify, I’m still taking 3mg p5p so not completely off. I’ll be stopping it completely tomorrow I think and switching to a run of the mill normal multi until I get my sleep back on track, then reassess.
 
Messages
56
Just an anecdote -- in individuals without pyroluria, taking unnecessary B6 supplements can be dangerous. I would encourage anyone who suspects a deficiency to get a serum B6 test first. Symptoms of deficiency are similar to those of toxicity. The United States' upper tolerable limit is actually very high compared to other countries. Most of us get plenty of this vitamin from diet, especially if one eats meat. High, and even modestly high doses of B6 can cause toxicity symptoms in certain individuals, such as small fiber nerve damage. Generally this can be reversed, but it can take years to resolve after stopping supplementation. Just a word of caution, as this happened to me, and I've found many others through support groups who experienced devastating effects.