CBT recommended for PMS in the UK

[Sean]

Being a male, I will leave it to those qualified to comment.

https://www.theguardian.com/society...fered-to-women-with-premenstrual-syndrome-pms

 

[Hutan]

Super, so many ways to slash health care costs.

Medical training need only take a few weeks rather than years as the answer to every ailment is CBT. 'Broken leg? No worries, sit comfortably over there and think positive thoughts.'

And of course soon the CBT treatment can be delivered online. So hospitals can be turned into internet cafes.

I exaggerate of course. CBT mostly comes in handy for those life-limiting conditions that primarily affect women and that no one has got around to understanding.

While PMS affects a large proportion of women, the exact mechanism behind the condition remains unclear. “We know that ovulation and the hormone cycle causes [PMS] (duh!) , but we don’t know why,” said O’Brien

But as O’Brien points out, only the removal of the womb and ovaries will resolve the issue permanently. “It is actually the only cure but it is very drastic,” he said.

 

[purrsian]

I had pretty bad PMS and heavy periods as a teenager. If a doctor had suggested that psychotherapy and challenging my beliefs would have helped, I probably would've cried.

I can see that in some cases, the goal-orientated way of looking at things could be beneficial in learning how to cope with a health condition. But I find the idea of CBT worrying, because it kind of blames the patient for not coping better. As a fragile teen with really bad experiences every month, it would've just broken me more if it were suggested I could do better if I just changed my thinking and behaviour.

 

[Valentijn]

What an ass. And of course, he's a guy who has obviously never experienced PMS. You know why it makes woman irritable and depressed? Because it HURTS, and instead of trying to figure out why it hurts and how to fix it, guys like him are complete assholes about it.

CBT for PMS won't catch on though. He made a major mistake in targeting an entire 50% of the population who has probably had at least mild PMS at some point, even if not regularly or with such intensity.

 

[daisybell]

My ME symptoms are definitely worse before my period. So I'm hopeful CBT will cure me of both...

 

[Solstice]

This is so retarded it actually made me laugh.

 

[Jenny TipsforME]

He made a major mistake in targeting an entire 50% of the population who has probably had at least mild PMS

This is useful though for ME advocacy with women. Our objections to CBT can seem odd but if up to 50% of population know how mad CBT for PMT is they may be more inclined to see our point. it fits very nicely into a potential health equality article about predominantly female conditions being neglected.

 

[slysaint]

I don't see them offering CBT for erectile dysfunction? or do they?

 

[Solstice]

I don't see them offering CBT for erectile dysfunction? or do they?

Imagine the endless possibilities for acronyms for their studies....

 

[SilverbladeTE]

Well, I suggest Mole Vice Therapy be given to male psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and newspaper columnists who suggest CBT for serious ailments and PMS *is* serious.

*Mole Grip to sensitive area of anatomy of said jackass, SQUEEZE! LOCK!*
*scream*
"Are we having a moment of clarity, here, numbnuts?"

 

[trishrhymes]

50 years ago as a teenager I knew nothing about PMS. Had no idea why I sometimes felt miserable and weepy and bloated and everything hurt. My mother didn't tell me about it, if she knew herself, and feelings were not discussed. Miseries, pain and periods had to be hidden even in the family.

40 years ago, just the simple information that such a thing as PMS existed and I wasn't mad or weak helped enormously.

30 years ago, in the midst of PMS, I took evening primrose oil with no particular expectation. 4 hours later I felt as if a huge black cloud was lifting off me and I stopped feeling like I was about to burst into tears. From then on PMS was mild and manageable.

20 years ago I heaved a sigh of relief when the menopause meant no more periods or PMS.

At no stage would CBT have been any use at all.

Information and biochemistry helped me.

 

[Cheshire]

On this topic, I would recommand @Cinders66 's post, which links to an interesting radio program

On radio 4 woman's hour a year or more back there was an interesting discussion on psychological vs medical treatment of reproductive related depression. An eminent gynaecologist professor John Studd declared women needed something along the lines of transdermal oestrogen and problem solved. The psychiatrist suggested a balanced mind body approach (including antidepressants and CBT I think) was also the right course of helping some women with symptoms etc but the gynaecologist was dismissive of what he viewed as unexpcessary. He was also dismissive of the new term premenstrual dysphoria which he said was a deliberate attempt to make PMS psychiatric /psychological territory (which I believe the CBT treatment framing of essentially good management advice and CBT model in CFS is designed to too). Interestingly he said that he'd tried to lecture at psychiatric conferences on the hormonal cause of some types of female depression but there wasn't interest and he said our beloved Sir Simon Wessely had recently declined his offer saying there wasn't time to fit his lecture in, which he interpreted as psychiatry wanting to keep their terrritory and not being open to physical causes of illlnesses they saw as their territory. There was obvious parallels to me with ME here, about 9mins in.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b062kdd1

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...-eye-me-cluster-bomb.48034/page-3#post-789196

 

[Gijs]

I am also a male but this sounds really ridiculous, ik think these doctors need CBT for their stupid and unrealisitc thoughts. They are grazy without a doubt. CBT is a panacea halleluja praise Wessely ea.!!! (sarcasm)

 

[hellytheelephant]

They have got to be freakin' KIDDING!
CBT has been turned into a cult in the UK....for one reason only- it's CHEAP! The time of Drs, specialists and Counsellors is precious...so why not let all patients get treated by a person who has been on a short ' How to use CBT course.' ?!
I fought tooth and nail to get to our local pain clinic...and after waiting several months- guess what- CBT! I was treated as if I was completely stupid, as ( lying down in so much pain I was in tears), I was shown a diagram that showed if I was 'Happy' then I would feel less pain than if I felt ' Stressed'! GENIUS!!

I feel that the way disabled and chronically ill patients are treated by DWP and NHS in this country is like something out of George Orwell's '1984'- with one thing happening ( saving money) and the patients being told this is only in the cause of making them better..when they are evidently NOT being helped.


Hormonal rant over- have a nice day everyone!

 

[Jenny TipsforME]

Have you seen the latest ME version out today?

CONCLUSIONS:
People with CFS have illness-specific biases which may play a part in maintaining symptoms by reinforcing unhelpful illness beliefs and behaviours. Enhancing adaptive processing, such as positive interpretation biases and more flexible attention allocation, may provide beneficial intervention targets.

Psychol Med. 2016 Nov 29:1-13. [Epub ahead of print]
An attention and interpretation bias for illness-specific information in chronic fatigue syndrome.
Hughes AM1, Chalder T2, Hirsch CR1, Moss-Morris R1.

I'm sure there are many flaws in this but the most glaring is the use of healthy controls. Would people with MS show anything different? Surely a bias towards illness content is what happens when your quality of life is severely altered by a chronic illness/disability.

I'm nervous to say but as a student I did quite a lot on health psychology. My dissertation project was on menstrual distress (PMT and period pain) and manipulating identity awareness. The manipulation bit didn't work - women thinking about being students didn't report significantly less menstrual distress than those who'd been thinking about their female identity. A side result though was that more "feminine" women were very significantly associated with greater menstrual distress.

My supervisor wanted me to publish but I didn't get around to it (working with undiagnosed ME) but I'm sort of glad I didn't publish now as I can imagine this being twisted around. Women having CBT to be less feminine to cure their PMT or something! Of course I don't know why I got this result. I didn't measure hormone levels just femininity, social gender attitudes and menstrual experience. It is likely complex.

 

[Invisible Woman]

The only CBT I found helpful for my really quite mild PMT was "Chocolate Box Therapy".

If I found myself wanting to thump someone, I'd go for a little walk, count up the dates, buy myself some chocolate.

When the PMT was bad (usually due to hormonal meds), if someone had mentioned CBT.....there's a good chance I might have throttled them.

 

[Valentijn]

If I found myself wanting to thump someone, I'd go for a little walk, count up the dates, buy myself some chocolate.

Having a nasty therapist to visit might also help with the bit about wanting to thump someone

 

[mermaid]

I remember in the early 60s being given a 'run around the sports field' as therapy for period pain by the PE teacher of course. There was a kinder one who gave out pain killers.

Definitely the best cure for my PMT was the menopause, but sadly that was also when my ME developed so I didn't exactly benefit as I had hoped. Nobody ever mentioned CBT to me thankfully. Maybe it hadn't been invented then. I did try lots of things, but none of them worked for me.

I used to get some of the symptoms that I later got with ME - extreme fatigue and noise sensitivity for example. In fact it got so bad I remember talking to one GP about it, as by then PMT lasted nearly 2 weeks, and asking her if I could possibly have hypothyroidism instead. Would she test me please? Oh no she said, it can't possibly be that.

I changed Drs and asked again. He (yes HE - was more sympathetic than the female GP) did a battery of tests, and spotted the first signs of underactive thyroid. I ended up on Thyroxine soon after which fixed some if not all of my symptoms.

 

[TigerLilea]

Shaughn O’Brien, professor of obstetrics and gynaecology - a man who has never had a single PMS day in his life. What a complete ass. All the CBT in the world wouldn't have helped my cramps and fatigue the day before my period started. CBT seems to be the cure-all for everything in the UK.

 

[hellytheelephant]

..I wouldn't like to be in Proff. O'Brien's shoes the next time he needs a woman's help with anything.

Well, I suggest Mole Vice Therapy be given to male psychiatrists, psychologists, doctors and newspaper columnists who suggest CBT for serious ailments and PMS *is* serious.

*Mole Grip to sensitive area of anatomy of said jackass, SQUEEZE! LOCK!*
*scream*
"Are we having a moment of clarity, here, numbnuts?"

Thank you - I needed a good laugh!!!!