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anyone know what these neurotransmitter test results mean (urine test)

Navid

Senior Member
Messages
564
epinephrine 6.8 low
noreinephrine 19.4 low
dopamine 177.8 elevated
glycine 1665.6 elevated
glutamate 49 elevated
pea 82.4 elevated

thanks for any and all input.

regards, navid
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
didnt even know they did this sort of testing, but what seems to be missing is serotonin which would also be interesting. I think all these neurotransmitter levels would be variable depending on the time if the day. Maybe a 4 times a day cortisol/dhea saliva test could also be of value and go hand in hand with the other testing. Can i ask what you and your doc are trying to achieve with this sort of testing eg was it done for poor sleep or low energy and to maybe find a drug to suit more of your needs then to just trial and see type prescribing etc?

cheers!!!
 

rlc

Senior Member
Messages
822
Hi navid I found this for you which might help

High Levels
Dopamine levels above 400mcg in a 24-hour urine collection are considered high, according to laboratory standards published by MedlinePlus. Conditions that can cause these high levels include rare neurological cancers, adrenal gland tumors and extreme stress and anxiety. A blood dopamine level higher than 30 picogram per milliliter, pg/mL, is considered high, according to laboratory standards published by Cigna. This degree of elevation can be detected with a single blood test and does not require 24 hours to collect. Trauma, surgery, major burns and sepsis can cause high levels in a blood test
http://www.livestrong.com/article/254644-what-are-abnormal-dopamine-levels/

Because your epinephrine and norepineprine are low it means that the high dopamine isnt caused by stress and anxiety, because they go higher under stress. So Id say you should probably be wanting to make sure that you get checked out properly for neurological cancers and adrenal gland tumors
epinephrine, norepineprine are produced in the medulla part of the adrenal gland

theres more information on the catecholmines test here

http://www.cigna.com/healthinfo/hw6078.html

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003613.htm

Sorry cant find a lot of information on the net, but hopefully this will be of some use to you

All the best
 
Messages
15,786
I also got results recently and would love any thoughts on how they relate to glutathione:

SUBSTANCE - LEVEL (NORMAL RANGE)
DHEA - 324.0 (33.0-496.1)
Epinephrine - 7.7 (7-12)
Norpepinephrine - 29.5 (30-45) LOW
Dopamine - 171.5 (115-175)
Serotonin - 133.1 (120-185)
Glycine - 1,570.0 (455-980) HIGH
GABA - 6.8 (4.7-7.0)
Glutamate - 43.3 (15-32) HIGH
PEA - 35.3 (30-70)
Histamine - 18.6 (14-24)
Creatinine - 125.2 (28.0-259.0)

Low cortisol in the morning, staying pretty steady, and ending higher than it should.

From what I've read online (including a richvank document on the wiki), the elevated glycine and glutamate we both have are pretty interesting because they are two of the three components of glutathione. I also had high homocysteine in the past (5 years ago), which is a precursor of cysteine, the third component. Could this reflect that my underlying problem is a trouble converting homocysteine to cysteine, thereby interfering with glutathione production and causing those three to become elevated as they get "backed up" in the body?

Navid's values seem quite similar to mine, albeit his are a bit more extreme, aside from my PEA being pretty normal.

My doc had me start a couple supplements for my values, including taurine, 5-hydroxtryptophan, L-theanine, N-acetylcysteine, and alpha-lipoic acid. Included are co-factors, the most notable of which might be B-6, since I haven't specifically supplemented that before, and I think it's involved in processing homocysteine (along with folate and B12).

Something in the supplements is making a huge impact on my circulatory problems - no more light-headedness, even when standing in the kitchen for over an hour, etc, no freezing cold feet, no need to lie down a couple times per day. I'm still limited in muscle use though.
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
epinephrine 6.8 low
noreinephrine 19.4 low
dopamine 177.8 elevated
glycine 1665.6 elevated
glutamate 49 elevated
pea 82.4 elevated

thanks for any and all input.

regards, navid

Hi, navid.

Looks like you are having difficulty converting dopamine to norepinephrine and epinephrine. This could be caused by a deficiency in vitamin C (ascorbate) or copper, both of which are needed for the conversion. Your glycine and glutamate are high, which could mean that you are having difficulty synthesizing glutathione because of a depletion of cysteine, which is usually the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. Low cysteine could be associated with a partial block in your methylation cycle. Most people with ME/CFS appear to have this block, and it is associated with glutathione depletion. Note that a deficiency in ascorbate is often associated with glutathione depletion, because ascorbate is normally recycled by glutathione when it becomes oxidized. Treatment for this is discussed elsewhere in the forums. If you want to read my papers about this, they are in the general Wiki pages. Click on Wiki at the top of this page.

Best regards,

Rich
 

richvank

Senior Member
Messages
2,732
I also got results recently and would love any thoughts on how they relate to glutathione:

SUBSTANCE - LEVEL (NORMAL RANGE)
DHEA - 324.0 (33.0-496.1)
Epinephrine - 7.7 (7-12)
Norpepinephrine - 29.5 (30-45) LOW
Dopamine - 171.5 (115-175)
Serotonin - 133.1 (120-185)
Glycine - 1,570.0 (455-980) HIGH
GABA - 6.8 (4.7-7.0)
Glutamate - 43.3 (15-32) HIGH
PEA - 35.3 (30-70)
Histamine - 18.6 (14-24)
Creatinine - 125.2 (28.0-259.0)

Low cortisol in the morning, staying pretty steady, and ending higher than it should.

From what I've read online (including a richvank document on the wiki), the elevated glycine and glutamate we both have are pretty interesting because they are two of the three components of glutathione. I also had high homocysteine in the past (5 years ago), which is a precursor of cysteine, the third component. Could this reflect that my underlying problem is a trouble converting homocysteine to cysteine, thereby interfering with glutathione production and causing those three to become elevated as they get "backed up" in the body?

Navid's values seem quite similar to mine, albeit his are a bit more extreme, aside from my PEA being pretty normal.

My doc had me start a couple supplements for my values, including taurine, 5-hydroxtryptophan, L-theanine, N-acetylcysteine, and alpha-lipoic acid. Included are co-factors, the most notable of which might be B-6, since I haven't specifically supplemented that before, and I think it's involved in processing homocysteine (along with folate and B12).

Something in the supplements is making a huge impact on my circulatory problems - no more light-headedness, even when standing in the kitchen for over an hour, etc, no freezing cold feet, no need to lie down a couple times per day. I'm still limited in muscle use though.

Hi, Valentijn.

I think your analysis is probably correct. B6 and magnesium are needed for the enzymes in the transsulfuration pathway, which converts homocysteine to cysteine, which in turn is usually the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. If glutathione is depleted, it can lead to depletion of vitamin C, also, and that is needed to convert dopamine to norepinephrine. I'm guessing that you are right about the B6 being responsible for your improvements. It makes sense to me, at least.

Rich
 
Messages
15,786
Hi, Valentijn.
I think your analysis is probably correct. B6 and magnesium are needed for the enzymes in the transsulfuration pathway, which converts homocysteine to cysteine, which in turn is usually the rate-limiting amino acid for the synthesis of glutathione. If glutathione is depleted, it can lead to depletion of vitamin C, also, and that is needed to convert dopamine to norepinephrine. I'm guessing that you are right about the B6 being responsible for your improvements. It makes sense to me, at least.

Rich

Great, thanks so much for your analyses (analysises?)!
 
Messages
2
I need help what does this mean any ideas. I was told high Glutamate and PEA means gastro issues. Is this true?



SUBSTANCE - LEVEL (NORMAL RANGE)
DHEA - 324.0 (33.0-496.1)
Epinephrine - 6.8 (7-12) LOW
Norepinephrine - 36.1 (30-45)
Dopamine - 144.4 (115-175)
Serotonin - 134.8 (120-185)
GABA - 6.2 (4.7-7.0)
Glutamate - 46.0 (15-32) HIGH
PEA - 95.4 (30-70) HIGH
 
Messages
15,786
@Valentijn -- five years later(!) -- wondering if you came to the conclusion that it was b6 that was helping the circulation/cold feet issue?
It was a temporary improvement, albeit fairly dramatic. It slowly disappeared over the following month or two. I still do better with a B multi, I need magnesium for muscle twitches, and I do better (wiredness) if I take 1800mg NAC every day.
 

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,561
Location
Seattle
Interesting @Valentijn. I'm just finally being able to tolerate small amounts of p5p, and have had blocks of ice for feet off and on for years, even pre-illness, so it caught my attention.

Any negatives -- or other positives -- from the NAC?
 
Messages
17
I do better (wiredness) if I take 1800mg NAC
It's indeed a mucus breaking down, old remedy, I dont think it's prescribed a lot anymore.
But there are claims it improves Gluthatione ( Main Antioxidant ) production by providing a Cysteine source.
Also claimed to be a methyl donor, and thus acting on conversion of homocysteine.
Aiding on wiredness ?????, one of my big problems, I'll check my drawers, I'm sure I have some. I have taken 1200 a day for a while, long time ago. Did not experience any difference, but did not evaluate the wiredness as I did not expect it to have an effect there. Will re-add it to my stock for 2nd evaluation.
 
Messages
17
But most surprising of all !!!!!!!!!
I am very surprised to see tests of Serotonin , and GABA ... Don't ask any test like that here.
Besides they are not available here, I am also surprised they exist elsewhere, and have some doubts about them.
If they really could test your Serotonin, they could evaluate if you need a SSRI or not.
If they could test your GABA , they could evaluate if besides the SSRI you can use a bit Benzo's.
I've never heard of a psy prescribing SSRI's based on Serotonin test.
Besides Serotonin is made in the brain only and can't pass BloodBrainBarrier, so I would be very surprised if any test could really reflect the serotonin levels.