Potassium Amounts Queries/MB12 for mood

[pumpkin]

Hi there everybody,

I hope you're all well today. Sorry, I promise I have been searching in the forums for answers to my query first but there's a lot of posts about potassium. As usual I would be grateful for some perspectives.

So I've been titrating Mb12 for maybe 3 weeks now. I have 5000mcg by Jarrow and after a terrible first try a few months ago in which I took the whole tablet every day and ended up in hospital with an arrythmia and chest pains, I followed very good advice, came off it all, and have started afresh 3 weeks back at just 1/8th of the pill, so 600mcg. I took that for 2 weeks just to be sure I was ok with that dose, and by the 2nd week my potassium needs went up. I felt able to control it by getting maybe 3000mg of potassium each day and upping my magnesium (maybe 800-1000) mg per day plus a bit of calcium.

In the 3rd week I have upped to 1250mcg of Mb12, and as expected, my potassium needs have ramped up.

I feel I wake up already deficient and usually cram in about 1500/2000 in the morning, either by making a smoothie with 3 bananas and milk or taking half a tsp of Lo-salt in OJ. a couple of times throughout the day I then take 3/4 potassium tablets (99mg) and try and eat a couple more bananas. I feel I then need another 1500 by dinner time, so I've been adding another half a teaspoon of Lo-salt to a tomato or something, and then sometimes having a couple more potassium tablets or molasses and milk before bed. Basically, throughout the day, I'm getting about 5000 mg of potassium. I feel this only just keeps the fatigue and body pains at bay.

I am ok doing this, I no longer feel in danger like last time and know now to just keep chugging the potassium, but I am curious to know if this level of need will be an ongoing thing?

I have seen a couple of people mention the need for B2, I don't know if I have deficiency of that but I get my B complex through a tablespoon a day of Brewer's Yeast, which has about 120% of the RDA for B2 and about 200% of the RDA for the other B vits (except B6/12).

I am also curious about the affects of B12 on mood. I'm gonna be honest and say I am a fairly depressive/anxious/angry person lol and the last week I've had a weird feeling which is like within an hour or so of taking the Mb12 I feel kind of happy, and I feel that my mind is not spinning off into those depressing/fearful thought cycles. I have been really excited by this but it seems to wear off after maybe 8 hours or so. I so much want to take another dose of B12 but while the potassium needs are so high I feel I can't risk it.
Has anybody else used Mb12 for depression/anxiety? Did it help? How long did it take?

Thank you as always for the thoughts and experience! I think all you guys are awesome for being so kind and helpful ))

 

[Mary]

Hi @pumpkin - first, I'm really glad to hear you're doing better! About your potassium needs - I would guess that eventually your needs may lessen as your body adjusts to the B12 and continues to heal, although of course if you increase the B12, it probably will increase your need for potassium. I know 5000 mg sounds like a lot but the RDA is 4500, and that of course is the minimum we need. I've been taking B12 for years and years but it was when I started taking methylfolate 6 years ago that my potassium needs jumped, and I still have to take extra potassium, although not as much as I did initially. But I'm happy to do it! It's cheap and it works.

FWIW, I tried taking brewer's yeast for B vitamins last year thinking it was a good way to go, and I ended up extremely sensitive to anything with MSG. I was already sensitive, but this went over the top and I had to stop the brewer's yeast (e.g., I eat a can of chili usually once or twice a week for dinner and couldn't do it while on the brewer's yeast, caused extreme insomnia). I now take B Right by Jarrow and do okay with that. I've tried taking extra B2 because so many swear by it, but I always react badly to it, so I just stick with the B Right.

If you google B12 and folate and depression and anxiety, you'll find a ton of info and a definite connection.

Are you taking methylfolate?

 

[poohsilk]

For several years I took Jarrow mb12 sl 5000 Mcgs a day. Although it gave me energy it gave me anxiety as well and I think I was just flogging a dead horse. Now, I take one quarter of a Jarrow 1000 micro grams and not every day. This is because I think I do not tolerate methyls or methyl donors. My question to you saavy folks is : how do you know you need more potassium? And how much should I take regularily? I am afraid to experiment with that given the warnings. When I get muscle cramps, I take one or two of the 99 milligram pills. My blood tests show my potassium level is OK at 4.5.Thanks

 

[CCC]

@pumpkin - I'm so happy to see you're doing much better. We can't help you with potassium, sorry. But we did find that switching to the B12 oils smoothed out the B12 ride and lowered that extreme peak of potassium craving.

@poohsilk - read this post which describes potassium deficiency symptoms (this is courtesy of @Freddd ). My edited version is this:

Group 1 – Hypokalemia onset
Symptoms may appear with serum potassium as high as 4.3. May become dangerous if ignored. Considered “rare” with CyCbl (Cyanocobalamin) it is very common with MeCbl (methylcobalamin) and AdoCbl (adenosylcobalamin) and less so with HyCbl (Hydroxycobalamin).

There does not appear to be a clear order of onset. The order of onset varies widely from person to person but many appear consistent for each episode for any given person. There tend to be more and more intense symptoms as it gets worse. Some people have ended up in the ER because of not recognizing the symptoms.

Headache, muscle ache, muscle cramps, muscle weakness,
Increased malaise, fatigue
Nausea, vomiting, IBS, constipation, diarrhoea
Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), increased pulse rate, increased blood pressure, or sudden drop in BP
IBS – Steady constipation, Nausea, Vomiting, Paralyzed Ileum,
Emotional changes and/or instability, dermal or sub-dermal Itching, and if not treated potentially paralysis and death.

Group 2a - Both (potassium and methylfolate)
IBS – Diarrhea alternating with constipation, IBS – Normal alternating with constipation

Group 2b – Either or both (potassium and/or methylfolate)
Headache, Increased malaise, Fatigue

Group 3 - Group 3 - Induced and/or Paradoxical Folate deficiency or insufficiency, from partial methylation block to methyltrap on 1 or more internal triage levels
These symptoms appear in 2 forms generally, the milder symptoms that start with partial methylation block and the more severe symptoms that come on as partial methylation block gets worse or very quickly with methyltrap onset.
(click through to this post to read more )

 

[pumpkin]

Thank you so much guys I'm afraid I have another doubt lol.

One of the symptoms I've been getting for months now is pain my joints. Originally with the potassium it was cramping in my muscles, and for a long time I've confused the pain with that, but I am really convinced now it is in my joints, my back, my wrists, my shoulders etc. Today I carried a bag of bananas home (hahaha) and my wrist and shoulder has been hurting ever since. It feels like normal day to day strain is causing severe pain. This symptom has been going on for months now - ever since I started the methylation stuff a few months ago (although I had it really bad after quitting gluten) and it has continued even though I only took the MB12 for a week last time. I can't help but wonder if this is metal detox? @Mary and @caledonia I know you've mentioned this stuff a few times... I've had a look through your signature docs Caledonia and read your comments elsewhere about the Cutler Protocol... I kind of don't wanna start taking DMSA etc. MB12 already stimulates detox doesn't it? If it is metal detox, should I just keep doing what I'm doing and leave it to figure itself out? is there anything else I can do to help with the pain while it goes on? I have some Chlorella but I've read it's not so effective.

The only other thing I can think of is that I went on holiday for a week a couple of weeks ago. It was the only time in months I didn't have the pain. I was taking Mb12 at the time, but it was also the only time in a long time that I didn't drink espresso. Ever since I came back I've been having really strong reactions to even half a cup of coffee (I used to drink like 3 espressos a day). For the first 3 weeks of taking Mb12 I haven't had these pains so I don't know why they've come back again now. Sorry for yet another question! and I hope you all have a nice sleep.

 

[Hip]

Has anybody else used Mb12 for depression/anxiety? Did it help? How long did it take?

I find B12 does not help my ME/CFS symptoms, but does help reduce depression. I take B12 methylcobalamin 20 mg sublingually once a week for these antidepressant purposes.

For anxiety, the supplements detailed on this thread work wonders.

 

[caledonia]

Thank you so much guys I'm afraid I have another doubt lol.

One of the symptoms I've been getting for months now is pain my joints. Originally with the potassium it was cramping in my muscles, and for a long time I've confused the pain with that, but I am really convinced now it is in my joints, my back, my wrists, my shoulders etc. Today I carried a bag of bananas home (hahaha) and my wrist and shoulder has been hurting ever since. It feels like normal day to day strain is causing severe pain. This symptom has been going on for months now - ever since I started the methylation stuff a few months ago (although I had it really bad after quitting gluten) and it has continued even though I only took the MB12 for a week last time. I can't help but wonder if this is metal detox? @Mary and @caledonia I know you've mentioned this stuff a few times... I've had a look through your signature docs Caledonia and read your comments elsewhere about the Cutler Protocol... I kind of don't wanna start taking DMSA etc. MB12 already stimulates detox doesn't it? If it is metal detox, should I just keep doing what I'm doing and leave it to figure itself out? is there anything else I can do to help with the pain while it goes on? I have some Chlorella but I've read it's not so effective.

The only other thing I can think of is that I went on holiday for a week a couple of weeks ago. It was the only time in months I didn't have the pain. I was taking Mb12 at the time, but it was also the only time in a long time that I didn't drink espresso. Ever since I came back I've been having really strong reactions to even half a cup of coffee (I used to drink like 3 espressos a day). For the first 3 weeks of taking Mb12 I haven't had these pains so I don't know why they've come back again now. Sorry for yet another question! and I hope you all have a nice sleep.

MB12 doesn't detox metals in and of itself. It might indirectly help create more glutathione which would detox stuff. But I think it's more like current exposures of various toxic substances, vs what's squirreled away in your tissues.

Best to avoid chlorella in case you do have metals, as will pull out metals, but then drop them before they actually get excreted. This causes metal redistribution which can make you worse.

If I take over my tiny amount of B12 or folate, I start crashing, which includes flu-like muscle and joint pains and extra fatigue. Feels like PEM.

The coffee story makes me think of adrenal fatigue which can cause muscle weakness and joint pain. Best to avoid coffee it it's making you anxious, jittery, etc.

Even with my tiny amount of MB12 and folate, I needed 3000mcg per day of potassium (divided doses). This year, after about 3.5 years on this, that dropped to 50mcg. I was experimenting with Cutler chelation with ALA at the same time, but I think that just unmasked a process that was already happening vs. causing a shift itself.