• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

OMF update....CDR suggested to be implicated in M.E

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Hi guys,

Checked up on the OMF website and saw this short article:

http://www.openmedicinefoundation.org/expanded-mecfs-metabolomics-study/

(Mods feel free to embed)

The CDR mechanism has been suggested as a model of disease by Dr Naviaux in his recent paper, however this is the first I have read of it actually being implicated in M.E by lab findings!!

Specifically:

"Dr. Naviaux completed an initial study of 90 participants (both healthy controls and patients) that showed abnormal metabolites in patients. The abnormalities indicate the mitochondria is in hypometabolism due to a chronic cell danger response state in ME/CFS patients."


Seriously exciting stuff! For more information on CDR here is a link to Dr Naviaux's paper

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1567724913002390



B
 
Last edited:

RL_sparky

Senior Member
Messages
379
Location
California
I wonder if the 90 patient study will be published?

Dr. Robert Naviaux and I have submitted for publication a study, now under peer review and expected to be published in the fall of 2016, looking at 450 metabolites in 43 people with CFIDS/ME and 43 age and sex matched controls. We found a characteristic chemical signature differentiating the patients from the controls. We just received a grant, that along with donations to our newly established non-profit, will allow us to replicate this study.

http://www.gordonmedical.com/unrave...unding-replication-study-on-cfidsme-findings/
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
OMF said:
This second study is an expansion of the first one, testing a new set of patients from different parts of the country to see if they also have the same abnormal metabolites as did the patients in the first study. Verifying these findings could lead to a diagnostic tool for the disease and pilot studies for possible treatments.

:woot::woot::woot:
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
OMF said:
The metabolite tests that were done in Dr. Naviaux’s first ME/CFS metabolomics study have also been conducted in the patients participating in our ME/CFS Severely Ill-BIG DATA Study. This is, therefore, a third group that could validate the initial abnormal metabolites findings.

We expect the Expanded ME/CFS Metabolomics Study to take one year from launch date to study publication.
 

Ben H

OMF Volunteer Correspondent
Messages
1,131
Location
U.K.
Is it significant that viruses aren't listed on that diagram as a possible trigger of CDR? There are fungi and bacteria and parasites, but not viruses.

I thought this too @Sasha, but guessed it was probably a misnomer.

So I checked in the actual paper, and it says "Common microbial threats are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites" eliciting the CDR response.

So nope, it's just been missed out on the diagram for whatever reason. CDR definitely involves viruses.


Thus it potentially explains a huge amount!


B
 

duncan

Senior Member
Messages
2,240
So I checked in the actual paper, and it says "Common microbial threats are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites" eliciting the CDR response.

I wonder if most of the cohort were recruited from California.

Wouldn't be interesting if a single vector could deliver each of those pathogens, either individually or in aggregate?
 
Last edited:

A.B.

Senior Member
Messages
3,780
Can anyone see a way to tie in the apparent success that Fluge and Mella have had with Rituximab with these latest findings from Naviaux and Davis?

Different possibilities:

1. The subset that responds to Rituximab doesn't necessarily have any overlap with the CDR subset.
2. Autimmune processes can induce and maintain CDR, either indirectly through disturbance of homeostasis or directly by damaging the cell or directly interfering with its function.
3. The thing that causes CDR also causes autoimmunity.

If I had to pick one it would be number two. CDR seems to be a nonspecific response to many different things, which probably includes autoimmune processes of sufficient severity.