Hi again free at last.
I posted a comment awhile ago about how many positive UK patients have tested positive in this country that any of you know about, (If im mistaken i apologize) But didnt get one single response to that question.
Sorry to hear that free at last. Don't take it personal. There's so much information and so many posts flying past all the time that not every question gets answered. Keep plugging away, just ask the question again. Also note, that information is in the archive somewhere (maybe not the latest state of play but I think there was a thread on it once - "XMRV positive in the UK" or something like that?). Take some time to explore the old threads, use the search function, and you may find your answers that way also. Perhaps nobody knows the definitive answer right now and that's why nobody answered. Creating a thread with a question can be a prominent way to ask it, and if there isn't already a thread on that subject, there should be and you could create it. I'd have thought the "UK XMRV Testing" thread would have info too.
Anyway, aside from that general advice, I can answer your question in a vague sense: Plenty Enough! Unofficially, 10/20 by one study. At least 2 or 3 public declarations by forum members here, and some discussions a few months ago if my memory is serving me well. Stand up to correct me someone? I'm curious myself to know the latest score. Anyway: Plenty to confirm that whatever the WPI is finding and whatever it means, it's just as true here as it is over the pond. Not peer-reviewed and published, of course, if you think that actually counts for much in our world, but plenty good enough for me.
Why do you think i asked that question ? Because if its proven the WPI is not making any kind of seriouse errors, ( which is going to happen sooner or later if there not ? ) then we know those 2 uk studys are flawed. And basically even with a 15 positive count, kind of somewhat proves it doesnt it.
Quite right, and indeed by making some extremely reasonable assumptions, one can then calculate from this info the percentage chance that the test used in the UK studies was actually a test capable of finding whatever it was that the WPI found. When you do that, there are lots of zeros after the decimal point.
We should be telling the media this info, getting them on our side the way the other half does. But do we, No we just go silent with the information we do have to help fight back against this attitude. Who rose to the bait on that one loL. As far as i can see, for all your super intelligence on this forum, ( and im not even in the same intelligence camp as most on here ) seems like your all debating over the little nity grittys here. When infact you could be going for the throat. Its just plain weird if you ask me.
Hmm...getting the media on our side...
Easier said than done, methinks. If you (rightly) don't think it's possible to convince the psychs, then by the same token, the Guardian's a non-starter, unless your strategy involves discrediting Wessely's mate who runs the show there. And with our most natural ally nobbled, that particular battle ain't easy. Waiting a few months for the forthcoming studies they can't ignore seems a reasonable pragmatic plan. Remember, there hasn't been a serious study yet, most of the currently-ongoing follow-up studies that were actually properly announced back in Oct/Nov have timescales to report results round about the summer I believe; there could be one any time now of course. So that would seem a natural time for a media blitz, and being prepared to react swiftly at that time seems right to me.
I dont mind if im seen as a trouble maker, or millitant, or stupid ,or not completely clued up, or whatever. But i know id rather let my heart speak the truth, than a thousand clever words and arguments getting you all absolutley no where. We have so much proof, and its growing, use that as best we can, you can all debate untill next week if ya like. But i know youll still be doing it next year, if the judy Ms dont prove there point.
There's a perfectly valid place for what sometimes seems like an endless talking shop, IMO. Remember that even though we're hashing over old ground all the time, these threads are often in the nature of a chat amongst friends, and in real life we do repeat ourselves round and round and over and over apparently going nowhere and it doesn't mean that conversation between human's is a stupid and pointless thing. There are always people, inside and outside the forum, who are learning something from it. I learned a lot the last couple of days, not about the debate itself particularly, but about how many people's emotional reactions on this subject differ subtly from my own even though we completely agree, for example.
That said, you do have a very valid point. Anyone remember Holmsey? He would have agreed 100% with this. He wanted to see less chat and more action, and I think it may be a genuine problem we have, it's very hard to turn an open thread into something that actually has an outcome and a 'deliverable'. And yes we are perhaps guilty of indulging ourselves, talking to much and not acting enough, I accept that I probably am, at the moment. Clearly these are your concerns: my advice here is: frequent the Campaigning section, where all kinds of stuff goes on, do take a role in nudging us towards practical expressions of what we talk about, but please also do allow us to have conversations here as well, and be sensitive that people have a right to use the forum for the purposes they need at that point in time, and just talking is a valid thing to do as well.
We should be writing petitions to the goverment ( forgive me if some already have ) and trying to get law suits to bring those responsible to hearing for the shamefull sectioning of SOPHIA MIRZA who apparently had her cause of death stated as ME on her certificate ( again forgive me if some have tried ) But im new here, I dont really know what has been happening in great detail, so if im wrong then im sorry ok.
No worries, apology accepted, since yes people here indeed do loads of that sort of stuff. People who are on this thread, and people who decided to ignore it. One mistake I made early doors was to assume that what actually happens visibly here is the whole of the outcomes. But actually, people here use material and information found here for the own more private projects, many work and campaign for/with other organisations, and the visible outcomes here are just a fraction of the productivity that flows from this site.
Consider this, everyone who thinks this thread is a waste of time: this is all searchable material that you can lift and edit and tweak and if you find a strong case or a snippet of a good bit of rhetoric here in support of your views, then you can adapt that and use that in your campaigning. Who's to say which of it is completely useless? Who's to say nobody out there happens to read and learn something? What effect does all this content have on google results for common search terms, and thus for campaigning puposes? Don't assume all this achieves nothing.
But i bring this Girls name up here, and silence. Ok maybe im like the black sheep or something and its a subtle way of saying, sorry we dont appreciate emotional millitant angry negative types with questionable understanding of the subject on our beloved forum. I probably wont be around here to long, either ill getr kicked off, ( which hurts me even more thinking that ) or ill get used to my words being lets say overlooked.
I'm sorry if you're feeling overlooked. Emotional militant angry negative types are more than welcome here in my experience. (As is pretty much any type as far as I'm concerned). Be patient and I'm sure you'll feel a connection here.
And please don't get kicked off! Pretty much all you have to do is not launch into a nasty personal attack on another forum member (stick to the argument, don't hound the person making it), not go round deliberately causing gratuitous offence, and as you know, pause and reflect for a few seconds before hitting submit if your emotions are running high. Since you seem to pretty much agree with near enough everyone here so far, that shouldn't be too hard.
Good luck everyone think you need to use what you have to fight back. and i dont think its emailing a couple of shrinks. really i dont. who knows maybe your right.
I saw that idea as one small part of a larger picture and a means of generating a useful resource; I thought the basic idea could go in interesting directions. But I can understand why almost nobody saw it as a high priority project, and fair enough. From the way I look at the big picture, I'm still not completely convinced, but who knows? Maybe you and the rest of the forum are right.
Anyway, take it easy free at last, it looks to me that there's plenty room for you to fit right in here.