Looking for some advice on raising acetylcholine

[douglasmich]

Hello.

I am dealing with colonic inertia which means my large intestine has 0 motility. I would like to explore the acetylcholine angle as i have read alot about its role in motility.

But i am not sure what to buy and im very fogged.

I have heard of Huperzine A & Alpha GPC.

Could anyone please advise ? I have choline biturate but it doesn't help

much much appreciated

 

[dannybex]

Raising acetylcholine levels can be a problem depending on what your levels are now. You wouldn't want to raise them if they're already high.

What else have you tried for the constipation?

And also what are you eating, or what are the main things you eat?

 

[douglasmich]

The only thing that helps so an extent is hardcore gargling 6x a day (vagus nerve)

other things ive tried
grams of magnesium
30g+ vitamin c
high fiber diet
low fiber diet
low fodmap diet
antimicrobials
50 different probiotics
retention enemas.

Nothing works so i stay on a 0 fiber autoimmune paleo diet and do enemas. Doesn't matter what i eat at all my brain isn't telling my colon to contract. I need acetylcholine stimulating vagus function

 

[aaron_c]

Very cool that gargling is helping you. I have put of trying that (for ME/CFS in general, not for constipation) but maybe I will have to give it a good try soon.

As far as I can tell the main factor in acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis for me seems to be phosphatidylcholine: I assume this because without phosphatidylcholine, my memory and concentration become quite poor. Possibly I am wrong, and the phosphatidylcholine is instead helping with something else in the brain. I don't know that I have ever noticed the phosphatidylcholine effecting gut motility, but I tend to run towards diarrhea, not constipation--unless I take calcium, that is.

Rich van konynenburg suggested that the deficiency in phosphatidylcholine that people with ME/CFS experience is due to insufficient methylation. I don't know how much this suggestion has been borne out by study, but just in case you haven't gone down that road already, you might consider it.

Here is an article on Choline CDP vs Alpha GPC. The site claims: "CDP choline works as an intermediate to Acetylcholine, whereas Acetylcholine is a by-product in the breakdown process of Alpha GPC." It sounds to me like our bodies would be more able to regulate how much CDP Choline becomes ACh than Alpha GPC. Possibly contradicting this understanding, I also see that CDP Choline can cause diarrhea, while Alpha GPC doesn't have any negative side effects listed. Maybe the possibility of diarrhea should be your guiding star?

 

[douglasmich]

Very cool that gargling is helping you. I have put of trying that (for ME/CFS in general, not for constipation) but maybe I will have to give it a good try soon.

As far as I can tell the main factor in acetylcholine (ACh) synthesis for me seems to be phosphatidylcholine: I assume this because without phosphatidylcholine, my memory and concentration become quite poor. Possibly I am wrong, and the phosphatidylcholine is instead helping with something else in the brain. I don't know that I have ever noticed the phosphatidylcholine effecting gut motility, but I tend to run towards diarrhea, not constipation--unless I take calcium, that is.

Rich van konynenburg suggested that the deficiency in phosphatidylcholine that people with ME/CFS experience is due to insufficient methylation. I don't know how much this suggestion has been borne out by study, but just in case you haven't gone down that road already, you might consider it.

Here is an article on Choline CDP vs Alpha GPC. The site claims: "CDP choline works as an intermediate to Acetylcholine, whereas Acetylcholine is a by-product in the breakdown process of Alpha GPC." It sounds to me like our bodies would be more able to regulate how much CDP Choline becomes ACh than Alpha GPC. Possibly contradicting this understanding, I also see that CDP Choline can cause diarrhea, while Alpha GPC doesn't have any negative side effects listed. Maybe the possibility of diarrhea should be your guiding star?

Hey! Diarreah sounds great right now lol!

Actually before i spend money on this i need to try applying a nicotine patch to my gut. I know people have been doing this for years for gastroperesis with results! And it would be a cheap test to see if acetylcholine will help!

Thanks for the link

 

[aaron_c]

Keep us posted!

 

[douglasmich]

Ordered Alpha GPC. It was the best as it improved gabba

 

[dannybex]

I asked above what specific foods you're eating because aside from the standard cliches, some foods are highly constipating while others are not. Astringent foods and herbs for example are very drying and will constipate anyone if eaten without a balance of other 'tastes'. Just as one example -- turmeric or curcumin -- can mean almost instant constipation for some people. A lot of leafy greens are highly astringent as well.

http://www.joyfulbelly.com/Ayurveda/herbal-action/taste/Astringent

Also herbs/foods that are quite pungent are also drying and can lead to significant constipation problems.

Just throwing it out there. Hope you can get some relief soon -- a month without a BM is definitely not good at all.

 

[douglasmich]

I asked above what specific foods you're eating because aside from the standard cliches, some foods are highly constipating while others are not. Astringent foods and herbs for example are very drying and will constipate anyone if eaten without a balance of other 'tastes'. Just as one example -- turmeric or curcumin -- can mean almost instant constipation for some people. A lot of leafy greens are highly astringent as well.

http://www.joyfulbelly.com/Ayurveda/herbal-action/taste/Astringent

Also herbs/foods that are quite pungent are also drying and can lead to significant constipation problems.

Just throwing it out there. Hope you can get some relief soon -- a month without a BM is definitely not good at all.

i eat
whtite rice
beef
juiced veg
chicken
berries
coconut oil.

I have not had a BM in 6 months. I do enemas 3x a week to clear the colon lol.

I dont htink its really constipation its just dysmotility. Normal constipation is where things move but they cannot be passed afaik

 

[dannybex]

Well it certainly could be due to a lack of choline / acetylcholine. Eggs would be a good source of choline, (and also fats). But I guess I wonder if it might also (besides the specific food type) be due to not enough overall 'energy' substrates for the krebs cycle.

Or could be due a lack of sufficient bacteria in the colon -- or the right types of bacteria -- i.e., those that relieve constipation or improve motility. Especially if you're doing a lot of enemas.

If food is moving from your stomach through your small intestine and then getting 'stopped' in your colon, then it might -- might -- be due to a lack of sufficient probiotic/prebiotics.

Just guessing again. Good luck.

 

[douglasmich]

Well it certainly could be due to a lack of choline / acetylcholine. Eggs would be a good source of choline, (and also fats). But I guess I wonder if it might also (besides the specific food type) be due to not enough overall 'energy' substrates for the krebs cycle.

Or could be due a lack of sufficient bacteria in the colon -- or the right types of bacteria -- i.e., those that relieve constipation or improve motility. Especially if you're doing a lot of enemas.

If food is moving from your stomach through your small intestine and then getting 'stopped' in your colon, then it might -- might -- be due to a lack of sufficient probiotic/prebiotics.

Just guessing again. Good luck.

The problem started after a round of antibiotics . My food moves through my stomach and SI then stops at Colon. But it moves slow too. I don't vomit all the time like people with gastroparesis so it seems to be colon.

Anyway i see a gastro next week. The general consensus with the good gastros here is that constipation is not caused by a lack of fiber it's caused by an unidentified clostrodia pathogen that paralyzes the bowel. They discovered this few decades ago and found that vancomycin dramatically reversed constipation.

Im hoping the gastro will give me a trial of antibiotics. If i respond to them il know its bacterial and i can do FMT and hopefully fix it.

But i did order Alpha GPC to try. It seems good for ur brain anyway

Thanks for advice guys & il update once i try it

 

[douglasmich]

ALpha GPC has arrived. Its 50% by weight .

I took 250mg. SLight increase in brainfog. The normal dose is 600mg 2x a day if i remember correct.

Tomrrow will try more. I am very sensitive so i need to go slow...........

 

[douglasmich]

took 300mg pure alpha gpc. i am getting motility noises! won't get excited yet

 

[South]

@douglasmich Please see my other post to you about thiamine:

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ain-just-no-movement.42634/page-2#post-722104

 

[aaron_c]

@douglasmich did it work?