caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
Yes, I used to be a technical writer, among other things.
-
Welcome to Phoenix Rising!
Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.
To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.
Start Low and Go Slow - How to Be Safe On A Methylation Protocol
- Thread starter caledonia
- Start date
Yes, I used to be a technical writer, among other things.
caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
You could either do all three, or just hydroxy, or just methyl + adenosyl, whatever works best for you.
Hydroxy converts to methyl + adenosyl, and your body needs both - methyl for methylation and adenosyl for the mitochondria.
If you find you don't tolerate hydroxy (even though your SNPs say you should), then take methyl + adenosyl. This is what happened in my case.
Snowdrop
Rebel without a biscuit
- Messages
- 2,933
Hi Caladonia
I also want to thank you for your effort at putting this information together in such a clear easy to understand way.
I have had so much trouble trying to understand this from reading a variety of threads.
Hopefully this will help simplify it for me enough to move forward in a less hazardous way.
SD
I also want to thank you for your effort at putting this information together in such a clear easy to understand way.
I have had so much trouble trying to understand this from reading a variety of threads.
Hopefully this will help simplify it for me enough to move forward in a less hazardous way.
SD
Really helpful, thank you again. Potassium deficiency has been a serious problem for me, but I am pretty confident about managing it now.
My biggest problem Dow is dealing with the dumping of metals..... I get a VERY strong metallic taste when I start to detox. Am wondering what to use to grab the metals so I don't re absorb.
Snowdrop
Rebel without a biscuit
- Messages
- 2,933
I haven't tried it yet but you might want to research bentonite clay as a possible solution to metal detox.
- Messages
- 14
Thank you so much for these resources, Caledonia. I bought some hydroxocobalamin sublinguals (Perque) for my daughter, but due to complications (outlined here), I'm not giving them to her yet. However, since learning that she has MTHFR/MTR mutations, I've been wondering about myself. Just taking one tab makes me feel spacey, a little loopy, a little more irritable and a little GI discomfort. I've downloaded your low and slow advice. Also appreciate the advice for transitioning off pysch meds. I hope I get the opportunity to help make that happen for my daughter. 
- Messages
- 8
@caledonia ....
could you please extend me the info about potassium or magnesium deficiency?
i felt the same...waking up at middle of night (first times with lots of panic) , but under my investigations it was because the adrenal extreme fatigue... the cortisol are not enough available at 3 hours after fall asleep, and then it cant control the blood glucose,, then the adrenaline acts to avoid major issues like an extreme low blood glucose and induced coma....
why you think it could be just potassium dificiency?
now in consuming lots of pure salt to help the aldosterone, and to enhance adrenals, eating each 2 hours to avoid cortisol release...
also take magnesium and consume dairy meals oftenly to get calcium,
but not supporting potassium because my low blood pressure...
the high sodium diet help with low blood pressure while high potassium lows it more... but if im not taking the daily minimun cab ne a real problem..
and my diet ir sooo reduced, im eating a low histamine-gluten free diet and my variations are so small...
maybe im killling myself!! OMG..
i have to say that ive started with a mwthylation enhance protocol, wich only continued with TMG.
but recently im usin b12 and folic acid as i commented in other thread... and im going to pee more oftenly since started..not at night.
in fact the mini small doses of b12 and folic acid gaves me peace and a deep capacity to sleep ..and im soo hapy with that. never had problems with sleep before.
what you said have a lot of sense because when those episodes happened (waking at middle of night with rapid heart beats etc) also felt an awesome needing to goig to pee... and i never needed to go to pee at night ...only when that happened.
so maybe is due to aldosterone but not for just cortisol deficiency, could be due to potassium...
can you explain me extended please?
any advice?
the only think makes me doubt is that my heart rate are also low....before to take the b12 -b9 was 50 !! and i felt horrible...i feel nice whe is up to 60 all that with 90/60 blood pressure, when all my life was 120/80
that the worst part of my weird symptoms.... b12-b9 makes me forget it!
could you please extend me the info about potassium or magnesium deficiency?
i felt the same...waking up at middle of night (first times with lots of panic) , but under my investigations it was because the adrenal extreme fatigue... the cortisol are not enough available at 3 hours after fall asleep, and then it cant control the blood glucose,, then the adrenaline acts to avoid major issues like an extreme low blood glucose and induced coma....
why you think it could be just potassium dificiency?
now in consuming lots of pure salt to help the aldosterone, and to enhance adrenals, eating each 2 hours to avoid cortisol release...
also take magnesium and consume dairy meals oftenly to get calcium,
but not supporting potassium because my low blood pressure...
the high sodium diet help with low blood pressure while high potassium lows it more... but if im not taking the daily minimun cab ne a real problem..
and my diet ir sooo reduced, im eating a low histamine-gluten free diet and my variations are so small...
maybe im killling myself!! OMG..
i have to say that ive started with a mwthylation enhance protocol, wich only continued with TMG.
but recently im usin b12 and folic acid as i commented in other thread... and im going to pee more oftenly since started..not at night.
in fact the mini small doses of b12 and folic acid gaves me peace and a deep capacity to sleep ..and im soo hapy with that. never had problems with sleep before.
what you said have a lot of sense because when those episodes happened (waking at middle of night with rapid heart beats etc) also felt an awesome needing to goig to pee... and i never needed to go to pee at night ...only when that happened.
so maybe is due to aldosterone but not for just cortisol deficiency, could be due to potassium...
can you explain me extended please?
any advice?
the only think makes me doubt is that my heart rate are also low....before to take the b12 -b9 was 50 !! and i felt horrible...i feel nice whe is up to 60 all that with 90/60 blood pressure, when all my life was 120/80
that the worst part of my weird symptoms.... b12-b9 makes me forget it!
Last edited:
- Messages
- 8
here explain some interesting stuff:
As Adrenal Fatigue progresses to more advance stages such as adrenal exhaustion (the third stage of Adrenal Fatigue), the amount of aldosterone production reduces. Sodium and water retention is compromised. As the fluid volume is reduced, low blood pressure ensues. Cells become dehydrated and turn sodium deficient. Hydration is needed to return the body to proper function. Coffee, alcohol, and tea (with the exception of herbal tea) should be avoided.
Many with adrenal exhaustion report a state of low blood pressure as well as salt cravings. The low blood pressure is due to the reduced fluid in the body. Salt cravings are caused by the body’s absolute deficiency of sodium state. Both are due to the lack of aldosterone. In order to compensate for this, potassium is leaked out of the cells so that the sodium to potassium ratio remains constant. The loss of potassium is less than that of sodium, and as a result, the potassium to sodium ratio is increased. This imbalance causes another set of metabolic problems, which further complicates the picture.
Those with adrenal exhaustion often have a low body fluid volume accompanied by salt cravings due to absolute deficiency of sodium as well as a normal to high potassium level. While lost fluids should be replaced, it has to be done carefully and slowly. When the fluid is replaced too quickly without adequate sodium, the amount of sodium in the body may become diluted, resulting in an even lower sodium concentration. Sometimes the replacement is gradual but the body over-reacts, leading to sub-clinical dilutional hyponatremia. Laboratory measurement of common electrolytes may be normal but patients may be presented with full-blown signs of hyponatremia, including confusion, lethargy, nausea, headache, seizure, weakness, and restlessness. Those in this state may find themselves visiting the Emergency Room for the many of these disturbing symptoms only to be told that all is normal after extensive workups.
The body is in turmoil and confused. Using its crude compensatory mechanism to maintain homeostasis to ensure survival of the key organ systems such as the heart and brain first, the rest of the body is thrown into disarray. Secondary function such as electrolyte replenishment takes a back seat and its modulation is compromised. Without a fine modulation mechanism in place, the body goes thru wild swings. The body gets easily dehydrated. If its overall fluid load is not maintained, sub-clinical dehydration occurs and symptoms of adrenal exhaustion worsen.
A relatively easy tactic of increasing blood pressure is simply to take in more salt and water. Salting food liberally as well as taking salt-water drinks can be very helpful. Sea salt is better than table salt because it contains trace minerals. Drinking more water will increase blood volume. This helps those who have chronic hypotension, chronic orthostatic intolerance, neurocardiogenic syncope, and POTS.
Although there are small percentages of people who are sensitive to sodium and develop high blood pressure, the vast majority does not experience an increase in blood pressure, even with moderate salt intake. Those with low blood pressure may see a temporary increase in blood pressure when sodium is added to their diet. Their energy also increases. If heart function is normal, there is no fluid retention, and no signs of edema or other symptoms suggestive of salt sensitivity, then a salt increase in the healthy person will not elevate blood pressure to more than 140/90 (normal being 120/80 mm HG). If the adrenals are weak, increasing salt intake will often enhance adrenal recovery. As the adrenals become stronger, the desire for salt reduces, and excessive salt may make one feel nauseated, especially if the salt is taken with water rather than from salting food. In fact, this is one indication that the adrenal functions are improving.
For some, this replacement is not without complications. The body can sometimes over-react to fluid replacement and trigger a state of sub-clinical dilutional hyponatremia (with confusion, headache etc.) while laboratory electrolyte level is normal. Maintaining the proper balance of solute and fluid requires extensive clinical experience in such cases.
- See more at: https://www.drlam.com/blog/adrenal-fatigue-and-blood-pressure-part-1/3786/#sthash.GwqPlucO.dpuf
As Adrenal Fatigue progresses to more advance stages such as adrenal exhaustion (the third stage of Adrenal Fatigue), the amount of aldosterone production reduces. Sodium and water retention is compromised. As the fluid volume is reduced, low blood pressure ensues. Cells become dehydrated and turn sodium deficient. Hydration is needed to return the body to proper function. Coffee, alcohol, and tea (with the exception of herbal tea) should be avoided.
Many with adrenal exhaustion report a state of low blood pressure as well as salt cravings. The low blood pressure is due to the reduced fluid in the body. Salt cravings are caused by the body’s absolute deficiency of sodium state. Both are due to the lack of aldosterone. In order to compensate for this, potassium is leaked out of the cells so that the sodium to potassium ratio remains constant. The loss of potassium is less than that of sodium, and as a result, the potassium to sodium ratio is increased. This imbalance causes another set of metabolic problems, which further complicates the picture.
Those with adrenal exhaustion often have a low body fluid volume accompanied by salt cravings due to absolute deficiency of sodium as well as a normal to high potassium level. While lost fluids should be replaced, it has to be done carefully and slowly. When the fluid is replaced too quickly without adequate sodium, the amount of sodium in the body may become diluted, resulting in an even lower sodium concentration. Sometimes the replacement is gradual but the body over-reacts, leading to sub-clinical dilutional hyponatremia. Laboratory measurement of common electrolytes may be normal but patients may be presented with full-blown signs of hyponatremia, including confusion, lethargy, nausea, headache, seizure, weakness, and restlessness. Those in this state may find themselves visiting the Emergency Room for the many of these disturbing symptoms only to be told that all is normal after extensive workups.
The body is in turmoil and confused. Using its crude compensatory mechanism to maintain homeostasis to ensure survival of the key organ systems such as the heart and brain first, the rest of the body is thrown into disarray. Secondary function such as electrolyte replenishment takes a back seat and its modulation is compromised. Without a fine modulation mechanism in place, the body goes thru wild swings. The body gets easily dehydrated. If its overall fluid load is not maintained, sub-clinical dehydration occurs and symptoms of adrenal exhaustion worsen.
A relatively easy tactic of increasing blood pressure is simply to take in more salt and water. Salting food liberally as well as taking salt-water drinks can be very helpful. Sea salt is better than table salt because it contains trace minerals. Drinking more water will increase blood volume. This helps those who have chronic hypotension, chronic orthostatic intolerance, neurocardiogenic syncope, and POTS.
Although there are small percentages of people who are sensitive to sodium and develop high blood pressure, the vast majority does not experience an increase in blood pressure, even with moderate salt intake. Those with low blood pressure may see a temporary increase in blood pressure when sodium is added to their diet. Their energy also increases. If heart function is normal, there is no fluid retention, and no signs of edema or other symptoms suggestive of salt sensitivity, then a salt increase in the healthy person will not elevate blood pressure to more than 140/90 (normal being 120/80 mm HG). If the adrenals are weak, increasing salt intake will often enhance adrenal recovery. As the adrenals become stronger, the desire for salt reduces, and excessive salt may make one feel nauseated, especially if the salt is taken with water rather than from salting food. In fact, this is one indication that the adrenal functions are improving.
For some, this replacement is not without complications. The body can sometimes over-react to fluid replacement and trigger a state of sub-clinical dilutional hyponatremia (with confusion, headache etc.) while laboratory electrolyte level is normal. Maintaining the proper balance of solute and fluid requires extensive clinical experience in such cases.
- See more at: https://www.drlam.com/blog/adrenal-fatigue-and-blood-pressure-part-1/3786/#sthash.GwqPlucO.dpuf
caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
If the waking up at night in panic started sometime after starting B12/B9, then it could be potassium deficiency. You may not need a high dose. There should be a sweet spot that is just right, not too much or too little.
I tried getting potassium from food at first, and my body wasn't recognizing it at all. I'm doing well with NOW potassium gluconate powder as are several people on here.
- Messages
- 8
well.... sincerelly those episodes happened many months ago.... in fact now when im taking b12/b9 i sleep better, sometimes i wake, but without any anxiety/panik or needing to pee....
im going for a hair test to see.....
tnx!
- Messages
- 34
Thank you for writing this @caledonia ! You mention in your thread that you supplement for SOD. I'm homozygous SOD2 and have read that Ben Lynch recommends supplementing with it too if you are having a reaction (I so far am unable to tolerate any methylfolate even in small doses without severe brainfog and lightheadedness). What supplement are you using for SOD?? From what I'm reading between you and Ben Lynch I'm thinking I may need to take glutathione and SOD to restore levels prior to resuming my methylation supplements.
Thank you for your help!!
Thank you for your help!!
caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
I tried SODzyme for awhile, but it didn't seem to do anything, so I discontinued.
I didn't tolerate methylfolate or B12 - I got a stressed, anxious feeling from it, which is a classic CBS/sulfur/thiol symptom.
I did the CBS protocol from Heartfixer for 3 months, except for I used Cutler's free thiol list instead of a slow sulfur diet - much easier.
Then I was able to tolerate very low doses.
- Messages
- 93
Hey @caledonia I got the hair test done that you recommend in the notes it says OK for full Methylation but I'm confused as to what to take and when. There is just a list of supplements and no doses. Do you know of an actual protocol I could use? Unfortunately the amount of info on these forums is just too much for my foggy head. Thanks.
caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
Can you clarify? Which test? Are you talking about methylation like B vitamins, or chelation?
- Messages
- 93
Hey @caledonia I pm'd you so I could send over some docs. Thanks!
TinaT
Senior Member
- Messages
- 291
Hello. Have you ever heard of potassium causing low blood pressure? I'm very sorry if I've already asked you this.
caledonia
Senior Member
- Messages
- 4,610
I googled, and it does look like potassium could lower blood pressure, while sodium (salt) would raise it.
TinaT
Senior Member
- Messages
- 291
Thank you. I meant to say low potassium causing low BP. I know that normally potassium lowers BP. But I have read a few places that low K can cause low BP and seem to be getting low BP after taking B12 / methylfolate and having other basically severe low K symptoms.
Thank you for looking that up for me though!
- Messages
- 61
Thanks Caledonia! This document is really helpful to me as I'm just starting out with Dr Sarah Myhill's Methylation protocol. You talk about how to fix overmethylation but how do you know if you are overmethylating? What kind of symptoms would you get?
Last edited by a moderator: