Fatty liver

[Spinney Lainey]

Just had an ultrasound and found out I have a fatty liver. Anyone else heard of this? Just wondering what I should do about this and if there are any other tests I should get down to do with my liver.....

 

[alex3619]

A fatty liver is common in ME. I don't know that anyone has ever treated it very successfully, unless they first recovered from ME. I think its to do with oxidative stress in our brain, which is supposed to regulate liver fat metabolism but doesn't do it properly.

 

[Hip]

Fatty liver is quite common in the general population too: Wikipedia says "Approximately 20% of the United States population suffers from non-alcoholic fatty liver, and the prevalence of this condition is increasing."

I was diagnosed with fatty liver a few years ago. I also had slightly raised alanine transaminase (ALT), a liver enzyme which is a marker of non-alcoholic fatty liver.

Interestingly, when I went on a two month fast consuming only fruit juices and vegetable juices (during which I lost around 10 kg of weight), my ALT went back to normal, suggesting that the fast helps rid the liver of excess fat. Although there is some evidence suggesting that extreme fasting can make fatty liver worse in the long run, but this evidence is controversial, and may not be true.

There are studies that show that the following drugs/supplements can reduce fatty liver: Gynostemma pentaphyllum herb, oxymatrine, metformin, carnitine, berberine, inositol hexaphosphate.

More info on fatty liver:

Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[heapsreal]

A few thoughts i had today about this.

Fatty liver being common in cfs/me. Could this be because we are low in q10 and carnitine which have been shown in studies of cfs/me people. While looking up fatty liver treatments as its a current issue of mine over the last few months which has popped up. I found that carnitine is used to treat fatty liver, is it a coincidence that since i stopped acetyl carnitine that this issue has come up?? I did post a similar thing in a thread about weight gain and insulin resistance. Im sure there is a strong relationship between insulin resistance and fatty liver. I think these are going to be issues for long time me/cfsers greater than that of just aging alone??

 

[Snow Leopard]

How common is Fatty liver amongst CFS & ME patients?

How many of you have elevated alanine transaminase on a liver function test? I'm particuarly interested if there are any who do not have the risk factors eg alcoholism or obesity or excessive consumption of fats and oils.

 

[Timaca]

My understanding is that diet can play a pretty large role in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Avoid sugar, processed foods and fatty foods. Eat more unprocessed, whole foods. There is some info on the web. And some in the book How Not to Die. In the book, Dr. Greger states that drinking just one can of soda a day raises the odds of getting fatty liver disease by 45%. He says it is a "tale of fat and sugar." He recommends avoiding excess calories, cholesterol, saturated fat and sugar.

 

[MeSci]

How common is Fatty liver amongst CFS & ME patients?

How many of you have elevated alanine transaminase on a liver function test? I'm particuarly interested if there are any who do not have the risk factors eg alcoholism or obesity or excessive consumption of fats and oils.

Do you also want to know if we don't? I don't. My tests are for Alanine Aminotransferase, which is the same thing according to this page.

 

[mariovitali]

According to the following link :

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/766881

The Golden standard is to take a liver sample and have it examined.

 

[Snow Leopard]

My understanding is that diet can play a pretty large role in non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. Avoid sugar, processed foods and fatty foods. Eat more unprocessed, whole foods. There is some info on the web. And some in the book How Not to Die. In the book, Dr. Greger states that drinking just one can of soda a day raises the odds of getting fatty liver disease by 45%. He says it is a "tale of fat and sugar." He recommends avoiding excess calories, cholesterol, saturated fat and sugar.

For what it's worth I have a non-diet related hypothesis and I'd like to see, at least anecdotally whether there is any support for it or not.

Do you also want to know if we don't? I don't.

Yes, negative results are just as helpful.

 

[mariovitali]

@Snow Leopard

Perhaps it would be more exact in this case to say that @MeSci most likely did not have Fatty Liver (because the Golden Standard = Liver sample was not examined) rather than saying that results were negative.

 

[wastwater]

I have elevated ALT its meant to be one of the frequent findings on standard testing done before you visit an me/cfs clinic,I don't know if mine is still elevated and there wasn't any mention of fatty liver.Could it be due to processing extra cytokines

 

[Valentijn]

My liver functioning is normal.

 

[MeSci]

I have elevated ALT its meant to be one of the frequent findings on standard testing done before you visit an me/cfs clinic,I don't know if mine is still elevated and there wasn't any mention of fatty liver.Could it be due to processing extra cytokines

Or extra lactic acid/lactate? This paper describes how the body deals with lactate, saying for example "The liver removes 70% of lactate."

 

[mariovitali]

My liver functioning is normal.

Did you have your Liver sample being tested several times? Did you have an U/S?


The Gold standard for assessing Liver disease is a Liver sample.

If you say that your Liver functioning is normal because you had normal LFTs then whatever you say may simply not be true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liver_biopsy

and BTW even if they take a Liver sample there may be a wrong diagnosis because of "sampling variability" simply because the area that was chosen to be taken as a sample does not have fibrosis (but other areas of the Liver may have)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15940625

Please avoid such statements without knowing what is at stake here (for you and others). Thank you

 

[Valentijn]

Did you have your Liver sample being tested several times?

I don't think liver biopsies are a practical way to detect liver malfunction, especially in the absence of related symptoms or other test results.

Or are we to assume that everyone has a liver disorder until proven otherwise via multiple biopsies?

 

[mariovitali]

I don't think liver biopsies are a practical way to detect liver malfunction, especially in the absence of related symptoms or other test results.

Or are we to assume that everyone has a liver disorder until proven otherwise via multiple biopsies?

It doesn't matter what you think @Valentijn. But what Medical science says.

I did not say that everyone has Liver disease, this is your misinterpretation.

What i did say -according to the links i posted- is that to rule out Liver disease you need rigorous testing. If this rigorous testing is impractical, well that's another story which has nothing to do with your incorrect claim that your "Liver is fine".

Please have the rigorous testing i described first and then make any claims that your "Liver is fine".

If you wanted to use scientific "lingo" you should instead have said "it appears that my Liver function is fine".

 

[Valentijn]

I did not say that everyone has Liver disease, this is your misinterpretation.

Please have the rigorous testing i described first and then make any claims that your "Liver is fine".

So no one can be presumed to have a functioning liver, in the absence of a biopsy, even if they don't have associated symptoms or other abnormal lab results?

I think it's more useful to assume everything is fine, unless there's a good reason to believe otherwise.

 

[mariovitali]

So no one can be presumed to have a functioning liver, in the absence of a biopsy, even if they don't have associated symptoms or other abnormal lab results?

I think it's more useful to assume everything is fine, unless there's a good reason to believe otherwise.

Thank you. For anyone who wishes to pursue this matter more please check about NAFLD, Screening, etc here :

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2006/0901/p756.html

 

[MeSci]

@Snow Leopard

Perhaps it would be more exact in this case to say that @MeSci most likely did not have Fatty Liver (because the Golden Standard = Liver sample was not examined) rather than saying that results were negative.

I think that my answer was exact. @Snow Leopard asked

How many of you have elevated alanine transaminase on a liver function test?

and I replied

Do you also want to know if we don't? I don't.

which is true.

 

[mariovitali]

@MeSci

Ah, i see, sorry about that!