valium makes fatigue go !!!

[crosser]

hi all.

i have severe m.e and bedbound.. had to go to hospital 2 weeks ago as our fire as giving out co fumes but all was ok after having blood checked.. the wierd thing is that i can only stay in an upright position (sitting or standing) for a few minutes before feeling unwell... as im an agoraphobic i took 4mg of valium before getting in the ambulance.. they made me sit upright for the 20 minute journey then i had to walk into the department then sit for 2 hours until seen and then walk out to my wifes car in the carpark.... why is it that my body was able to do that when normally can only manage very little..... thanks

 

[Hip]

It could be related to the way Valium reduces excitation of neurons.

Neurons become more excited when their NMDA receptor is activated, and less excited, more relaxed when their GABA receptor is activated.

Valium and other benzodiazepines work by effectively increasing GABA receptor activation, thereby calming the neurons.

 

[crosser]

thanks for that, i think i get it... only thing i dont understand is surely after that amount of exertion i should of had a huge crash !! felt a bit under the weather but i think that was the stress of it all....

 

[Sushi]

why is it that my body was able to do that when normally can only manage very little..... thanks

Valium can help prevent HR spikes--has that been a problem for you--elevated HR on sitting and standing?

 

[crosser]

on standing or sitting up my hr stays the same but blood pressure shoots up to 160/105 .... its strange because i feel exhausted even though my hr hasnt gone up....

 

[Dr.Patient]

I have some relief in fatigue also with xanax...Good to know that diazepam gives a similar relief...

 

[Martial]

Maybe look into something that could offer the same benefit without the addictive qualities? Benzos can be extremely difficult to come off of once a dependency is built.

 

[Bob]

Clonazepam has a mild but consistent protective effect for my overall ME symptoms and post-exertional malaise. Lorazepam relieved Whitney Defoe of some brain fog when he had a recent hospital visit. If diazepam helps you, I suggest also trying gabapentin or pregabalin. Gabapentin worked for me in a similar way to clonazepam, and it was more effective/protective, but unfortunately I experienced severe side effects that I couldn't tolerate.

 

[roller]

it eases muscle tension, therefore its recommended for clostridium infections, as botulinum and tetani.
i once took valium and also felt magic: energetic, awake, brain fog gone.

 

[Dr.Patient]

Anybody have any suggestions for less addictive, fatigue lessening meds...

 

[roller]

fighting the cause

perhaps there are: Labetolol, esmolol, clonidine.
but it seems valium is the most effective one and everything else is at least as sedating.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

Anybody have any suggestions for less addictive, fatigue lessening meds...

I've been sick for 25 years and there have been only two things that have helped with energy in a major way:

1. Effexor (venlafaxine) XR: Extended release (XR) form is much easier on the stomach than immediate release. Take in the morning, otherwise you risk insomnia. If you need to titrate a dose, the capsules can be opened.

I can no longer tolerate any form of Effexor due to nausea and worsening of palpitations.

2. DHEA: take only in the morning, otherwise you risk insomnia. A good starting dose might be 10mg for a male, less for females. Sublingual forms or tinctures bypass the liver, so those forms are recommended over tablets. DHEA will eventually suppress cortisol, so ideally you'd only want to be on it a few months. Naturopaths and integrative doctors are good with this type of hormone balancing if you want better guidance.

I've seen Ralph Golan MD in Seattle and he describes how he uses DHEA here:
http://www.ralphgolanmd.com/adrenal_exhaustion.htm

If an individual's DHEA is too low, or the cortisol/DHEA ratio is too high, supplemental DHEA is often needed, I recommend individualized doses, gradually working up to the desired level. For women this might be up to 10 mg twice a day; for men, up to 20 mg twice a day. Some of my patients have required somewhat higher doses. If using the more absorbable alcohol-based DHEA tincture, reduce the maximum doses by one-half.

In addition to its own functions, DHEA can be converted in the body to estrogen. Too high a DHEA dose in women causes breast tenderness or spotting between periods. DHEA can also be converted into testosterone{the male hormone} and, in women, too much DHEA can trigger acne and male pattern hair growth. A woman's appropriate dose is one that brings the desired results without any of the adverse side effects. Too much DHEA can suppress cortisol production to abnormally low levels. Monitoring these hormone levels with periodic follow-up testing is essential to assure adequate levels and to safeguard against overdosing.

 

[Kati]

It could have been adrenaline rush/stress response.

Sending best wishes

 

[taniaaust1]

Valium can help prevent HR spikes--has that been a problem for you--elevated HR on sitting and standing?

"the wierd thing is that i can only stay in an upright position (sitting or standing) for a few minutes before feeling unwell... "

You sound like you should be seeing a specialist in autonomic disorders. BP shooting up to 160/105 on standing is a autonomic system problem.. orthostatic hypertension .. see the Wikipedia I once put together a page on this. This untreated puts a person at risk of other serious issues.

You probably should be tilt table tested (but you'd need to be off of meds which could affect it to do it or otherwise the result may be impacted).

 

[justy]

Hi - glad you managed the hospital visit well!

A couple of things stand out for me. Agoraphobia - were you agoraphobic BEFORE becoming ill or after? I have struggled with this at times in my life and I realise now that I am not agoraphobic, it is part of being ill and trying to push through - for me it was a protective mechanism - I actually WASTN safe going out on my own or walking around, in fact I was very ill with ME , but was pusghing through it so felt anxious whenever I went out, Add to that derealisation 9perhaps caused by my bacterial infections) and I looked like someone with agoraphobia. But it couldn't be treated as such because my anxieties about driving a car or walking around in the shops was real - not a phobia, not unrealistic considering how ill I was! It is also listed as an alternative symptom of Lupus by Dr Graham in the alternative St Thomas criteria - he sees it in a lot of his undiagnosed patients.

Valium - is it possible you have some kind of Mast cell disease that ha not been diagnosed? Benzos are Mast cell stabilisers and fatigue can be a massive issues for people with Mastocytosis and MCAS. I have MCAS AND M.E, and find valium helps me to do things I couldn't otherwise do. I also found my fatigue has lessened a little taking the mast cell stabilizer Ketotifen.

 

[Skippa]

Valium for me precipitates depression.

The long half life keeps me in a zombie, depressed, apathetic and anhedonic state for a week or more if I take it more than one day in a row.

And that's only 2mg.

The last time I took it it caused a night long chained panic attack response, that was horrible, considering it's supposed to do the opposite!

 

[lookinglass]

Lorazepam 1mg works for me to keep IBS at bay if I wake feeling nausea.

 

[crosser]

thanks for all your replies, some things for me to look into.. i was on effexor and stoppedtaking it in june and had my first crash which was massive in the august... wonder if thats anything to do with it....

ive been agoraphobic for 10 years and cfs symtoms started 7 years ago.. but suffered with severe anxiety for last 15 years... im not scared of places or going out, just scared of losing control away from home....

 

[justy]

ive been agoraphobic for 10 years and cfs symtoms started 7 years ago.. but suffered with severe anxiety for last 15 years... im not scared of places or going out, just scared of losing control away from home....

It was found recently I have Lyme, Bartonella and chlamydia pneumoniae - these kinds of bacterial infections can commonly first appear as psychiatric symptoms like anxiety, panic attacks and agoraphobia. My ill health relapse came alongside these awful debilitating symptoms. I personally believe they can be related to the health problems and are not necessarily psychiatric in origin.

 

[crosser]

my cfs team have asked my gp to test for lymes so waiting to hear back.... its possible as my cfs started when we lived in the forest of dean..... i see you went for the eco living as we did but had to sell up as i could no longer manage the up keep with the fatigue.... i was gutted....