Excitotoxicity from Methyfolate?

[darkbarker]

Is this anything to worry about while taking methylfolate or methylcobalamin? I’ve been experiencing symptoms of what I assume is over-methylation, sort of a panicky, wired feeling that lasts through the day. I’m taking Seeking Health’s Active B12 methylfolate product, and I’m just trying to push through it rather than quench it with niacin or take a lower dose. I think I’ve read somewhere that excessive methyl groups leads to high levels of glutamate and that this is associated with neuro-degenerative conditions like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's. I've assumed mthfr supps are benign up until this point, and I don’t want to cause any permanent damage.

 

[PeterPositive]

Hi,
I am of the persuasion that pushing through adverse reactions is not a good idea. Been there, done that, didn't work
At least for me.

Also, even Dr Ben Lynch recommends to fine tune the dosage so that it doesn't cause unwanted side effects. Maybe the problem is just dosage. As usual the "low and slow" approach will save you from a lot of symptoms.

I know the Seeking Health's product, it's not bad, I've tried it and in general it did not work too well for me. Initially it was too strong, and I got the same anxiety/panic you have mentioned. Too much actually, I could not think straight and made me too nervous.

Also I noticed I needed to separate the folate dosage from the B12, so that I could push the B12 higher as I noticed it was helping significantly.

To this day I still prefer oral Metafolin to any other forms of active folate.

You didn't mention if you're taking a B complex too. Usually it's a good idea to make sure all other cofactors are available, otherwise you may be wasting your time. A basic multi-mineral would also be a good idea.

Finally, some experimentation is usually required but I'd recommend checking with your physician to avoid interactions with other medications or possible issues connected with your condition.

good luck

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have a crazy theory that taking too much activated folate (methylfolate) will indeed feed glutamate and additionally will convert back to inactive form in the body, creating insulin resistance. Then you will need more methyl donors, but your body just can't handle too much of methyl groups at a time, and you are stuck in a feedback hole.

In other words, I would keep supplementation low, at comfortable levels. I take my supps 1x weekly, low doses. Sometimes I skip a dose. Too much of B vitamins will drive your mineral needs like crazy (e.g. iron, copper etc) because they feed RBC synthesis.

 

[garyfritz]

Also I noticed I needed to separate the folate dosage from the B12, so that I could push the B12 higher as I noticed it was helping significantly.

Hm. I thought B12 and methyl folate worked synergistically. I've always taken my folate along with my B12 doses. What difference do you see when you separate them?

 

[bertiedog]

I have also read that in some of us even natural folates can convert to excess glutamate and it sounds like this is what is happening with you @darkbark. Any form of folate above 500 mcg does this to me every time, even an extra 100 mcg will do this and cause severe insomnia plus horrendous migraines.

Adn/HydroxyB12 is much better for me than MB12 but even these will cause insomnia for me if taken for more than 1 day at a time.

I do have gut issues, possibly SIBO and am taking Rimfaximin for this at present and hope it will settle things down.

Pam

 

[PeterPositive]

Hm. I thought B12 and methyl folate worked synergistically. I've always taken my folate along with my B12 doses. What difference do you see when you separate them?

Well, the supplement I was mentioning has 800mcg Quatrefolic and 1mg Methyl-B12. Problem is I needed at least 7-8mg of B12 but that would have involved taking also 8x800mcg quatrefolic, which is way way too much for me.

Sublingual quatrefolic in particular gives me a lot of anxiety whereas metafolin doesn't. Now I take 4-5mg of Metafolin and 10-12mg B12. Some days I need less and I prefer to fine tune the two separately.

cheers

 

[garyfritz]

Weird how we all react differently. I've never gotten anxiety from folate (or adverse effects from B12). In fact if I wake in the night with anxiety/agitation, usually mB12 is the fix, but sometimes it takes methyl folate to calm me down. And I normally take it sublingually to get it into my system faster.

 

[bertiedog]

I wonder if its the gut issue that causes the problem together with the individual SNPs we might have.

Pam

 

[ahmo]

@darkbarker I use 1mg B12 sublingual, rather than niacin, to calm folate reactions. Here are some Ben Lynch posts you might find useful, including the comments.

http://mthfr.net/taking-folate-and-feeling-badly-methylation-requires-balance/2011/11/15/

http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/

http://mthfr.net/preventing-methylfolate-side-effects/2014/11/26/

 

[PeterPositive]

Weird how we all react differently. I've never gotten anxiety from folate (or adverse effects from B12). In fact if I wake in the night with anxiety/agitation, usually mB12 is the fix, but sometimes it takes methyl folate to calm me down. And I normally take it sublingually to get it into my system faster.

Well... I used to think it was weird too, but I suspect we're all more or less victims of the mainstream view of medicine and the pill-per-ill type of approach.

The implied narrative is that you have a certain symptom you take a certain chemical... and we spend trillions of $$ in a system that reduces everything to statistics to find a "cure". It's probably a good approach for administrative and accounting purposes in large institutions (e.g. governments and private sector) but a very debatable medical system.

Any illness that is not as trivial as a toothache or a broken leg will manifest differently depending on the subject and will respond differently to the same therapy...

... and now I've gone totally off topic!

cheers

 

[PeterPositive]

@garyfritz by the way, to add a bit more about the difference we see with the same treatment, last summer we had a brief exchange about the Country Life 5mg metyhl-B12. I was complaining about how quick they dissolved under the tongue and you suggested to use them between tongue and cheek to make them last longer.

I followed your advice and used the CL brand for the last part of July and most August. I experienced a slow but steady decline of symptoms to the point that I started suspecting that the B12 wasn't working at all. I usually felt a good "punch" from a 5mg B12 but this time it wasn't the case.

I finally went back to Source Naturals and Solgar sublinguals and immediately felt the difference! In 4-5 days I got rid of all the crazy symptoms that had returned.

Just an example of how different things can be when you change subject...

 

[garyfritz]

Pretty strange, @PeterPositive. I assume you meant that you got a slow increase of symptoms, i.e. that the CL seemed to quit working over time. Yes, we all seem to react differently, no doubt due to our different SNP's.