Wessely Says: Even if XMRV Causes ME, "There's Nothing We're Going to Do About it"

[Dx Revision Watch]

Your always on the ball ME Agenda. Relieved to know he's no longer inflicting himself on patients. Wish the possible political differences were the other partners wanting nothing more to do with him -can but dream!!

As for politics OMG!

I know, it doesn't bear thinking about. For some time now, he's contributed to Tory blogs as a guest blogger. Perhaps he'll be doing more of that if the Guardian doesn't retain him now he's early retired.

Can someone get him interested in gardening or DIY or something I'm really scared!!

He's buying a scooter.

I thought men of a certain age were supposed to go out and blow thousands on a set of leathers and a great throbbing Harley-Davidson. Not a scooter.

Suzy


Edit: For anyone who's interested, he blogs on this site:

Conservative Home: Centre Right

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/dr_crippen/index.html

Most recent post, February 24, 2010

 

[Marco]

"Scooter"?

Surely, for a muppet like him, Beaker is more appropriate?

 

[Dolphin]

BMJ Podcast Part 2

CS: Because the paper seemed to be suggesting that there was a very big excess of the presence of the virus in samples from patients with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - and, I’m not an expert in Chronic Fatigue Syndrome - but I knew from my own clinical work as a neurologist and from talking to colleagues who know a great deal about the field, that there’d been an interest in viruses as a potential causative factors, or triggers. And, I think you’ve heard from Simon Wessely, a causal link for some cases has never been identified. But there’s never been suggestion that there’s one virus that’s predominant. And, there’s always been, I think, a number of other factors contributing to the syndrome. So, I thought it would be interesting to find out a little bit more about what this paper was claiming, so I read it in quite a lot of detail.

She may have been influenced by Michael Sharpe. There are some hardline psychobabblers in Edinburgh.

http://tinyurl.com/ykw8sco

Division of Psychiatry

Psychological Medicine Group

Information

General information

Neurological symptoms: Scottish National Symptoms Study (SNSS)

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (PACE trial)

Stroke

Cancer: Symptom Management Research Trials (SMaRT)

Primary Care: (Referral study)

Children and Adolescents (School Health Study)

Contacts

Michael Sharpe (Director)
Alan Carson (Neuropsychiatry)
Elspeth Currie (Group Research Manager)
Research staff
Consultants in psychological medicine

Links

DCN Neuropsychiatry Web site
http://tinyurl.com/ykjzlaq

General

The Psychological Medicine and Symptoms Research Group studies the nature, cause and management of symptoms in medical patients. This work includes the study of symptoms in patients with cancer and with neurological disease as well as symptoms which are regarded as "medically unexplained".

Our methods are principally those of clinical epidemiology and include case control studies and clinical trials.

The research group is based in the University Division of Psychiatry with research teams located within the Divisions of Oncology, Clinical Neurosciences and Primary Care.

The Director is Professor Michael Sharpe.

All enquiries to the Research Secretary, Mrs Ann Houliston. 0131 537 6504

Neurology

Neurological symptoms: Scottish National Symptoms Study (SNSS)

1. Symptom survey

This study will define a prospective cohort of patients from all four (Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen and Glasgow) Scottish Neurology centres and determine the nature and outcome of symptoms. Dr Alan Carson is lead investigator. It is funded by the Scottish Chief Scientists Office (CSO) and Quality Improvement Scotland (QIS). A pilot intervention study in collaboration with the Department of Psychological Medicine in Glasgow funded is by the U.K Medical Research Council.

2. SMaRT Neurology (Symptom Management Research Trials)

A pilot intervention study in collaboration with the Department of Psychological Medicine in Glasgow is funded by the U.K Medical Research Council.

Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS/ME); the PACE trial

We are a collaborating centre for a large national trial of non-drug rehabilitative interventions for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (also know as Myalgic Encephalomyelitis or Encephalopathy). This study is funded by the U.K. Medical Research Council, Chief Scientist Office of the Scottish Executive and others.

Stroke We are collaborating with the Edinburgh Stroke Study (Dr Cathie Sudlow, Dr Martin Dennis and Professor Charles Warlow) to investigate psychological and psychiatric predictors of outcome after stroke. We are conducting a study funded by Chest, Heart and Stroke Scotland to investigate "personality change after stroke".

Cancer

SMaRT Oncology (Symptom Management Research Trials) This group undertakes the screening of outpatients at the Edinburgh Cancer Centre in order to identify patients with severe symptom problems. We are currently conducting a randomised trial of a complex (nurse delivered) intervention for depression and are also conducting descriptive work on fatigue. Professor John Smyth is co-investigator. The work is funded mainly by CR-UK and NCRI.

Primary Care

Referral Study

This study will investigate frequent referrals from primary care to hospital for complaints that hospital specialists diagnose as inadequately by disease. Professor David Weller (Professor of Primary Care) is co-investigator. The study is funded by the Scottish Chief Scientists Office (CSO).

name="children"> Children and Adolescents (School Health Study)
This study aims to investigate the nature of the health problems of secondary school students in Edinburgh who have prolonged medical absence. Dr Peter Hoare (Reader in Child Psychiatry) is the lead investigator. It is funded by the Health Foundation.

Note

We do not at present provide clinical placements for persons other than Edinburgh medical students and psychiatry trainees. If you are interested in joining the research team please contact Professor Sharpe.

Group Research Staff
Director: Professor Michael Sharpe
Lecturer in Liaison Psychiatry: Dr Jane Walker

Research Group Support:
Mrs Elspeth Currie e.currie@ed.ac.uk Group Research Manager
Mrs Ann Houliston Research Secretary

Oncology
Ms Vanessa Strong Nursing Research Fellow
Dr Carina Hibberd Data Manager
Ms Jackie Whigham Clinical Nurse Specialist
Ms Helen Swanson Research Assistant
Ms Sarah Humble Research Nurse
Dr Dawn Storey Research Fellow
Dr Lucy Wall Consultant Oncologist (NHS)

Neurology
Dr Jon Stone Consultant Neurologists (NHS)
Dr Kristin Haga Research Fellow in Neuro-imaging
Dr Sharon Smith Research Fellow in MRC Treatment Development Project

Primary Care
Ms Kelly McGorm Research Nurse School Health Study
Dr Rosemary Jones Research Fellow in Community Child Psychiatry

PACE Study
Ms Ruth Powell Trial Research Nurse
Mr Vincent Deary Senior Nurse Psychotherapist
Mrs Louise Mason Occupational Therapist
Ms Sheena Spence Physiotherapist
Dr David Wilks Consultant in Infections Diseases (NHS)
Dr Janet Andrews Staff Grade in Infections Diseases (NHS)

NHS Consultants in Psychological Medicine
Western General Hospital
Professor Michael Sharpe (Honorary)
Dr Alan Carson (Neuropsychiatry)
Dr Anne Tait (Infectious Diseases)
Dr Eleanor Halloran (General Consultation)
Western General Hospital of Edinburgh NHS Clinical Department: Psychological Medicine. Tel: 0131 537 1834. Fax: 0131 537 1833.

New Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh
Dr George Masterton
Dr Siobhan Machale
Dr Stephen Potts
New Royal Infirmary of Edinburgh NHS Clinical Department: Psychological Medicine.
Tel: 0131 242 1398. Fax: 0131 242 1393

home | help | contact | search

Published by Departmental Editor
Last modified: #CGI.HTTP_IF_MODIFIED_SINCE#
Unless explicitly stated otherwise, all material is copyright The University of Edinburgh

----------------------------------------------------------

http://tinyurl.com/ydsv857

UOA 9 - Psychiatry, Neuroscience and Clinical Psychology
University of Edinburgh

2.1.4 Psychological Medicine and Symptoms Research Group (Sharpe [head], N.Douglas, McKinstry, J.Walker [clin lecturer]), 27 staff supported by 12M total awards (2001-7), focuses on studies of symptoms and their treatment. Sharpe discovered the link between post-stroke hopelessness and mortality (Stroke 2001) and refuted the link between hysteria and neurological disorders (BMJ 2005). Major initiatives led/co-led by the group include: the Scottish Neurological Symptoms Study, funded by an MRC trial platform grant; a CRUK programme grant (800k) funding 2 RCTs (SMaRToncology 2 and 3) of depression management in cancer patients;

the PACE trial (7 UK centres) of chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS) treatments (MRC; 5.0M);

NCRI COMPASS research collaborative (1.9M; Edinburgh, Leeds, KCL) to improve management of cancer patients' symptoms.

Sharpe directs the Scottish Mental Health Research Network, part of UK-CRC, linking all Scottish medical schools (1.4M) and developed and evaluated cognitive behavioural therapy for the treatment of CFS, shaping NICE guidelines and practice internationally.

N.Douglas's RCTs clarified approaches to sleepiness in sleep apnoea. McInstry extended RCTs of Bell's palsy symptoms and practice research (NEJM 2007) into primary care reflecting our holistic approach.

Fellowships

Naturally, this environment attracts many prestigious externally-funded fellowships including in this RAE period: 2 senior research fellowships from Wellcome (Jarman) and MRC (Chamberlain), 3 Wellcome University awards (Horsburgh, Mitchell, Theil), 4 Clinician-Scientist Fellows from Wellcome, MRC, Health Foundation (Sudlow, Al-Shahi, MacLullich, McIntosh), Royal Society Fellowship (Hardingham), Wellcome RCDF (Duncan), Royal Society of Edinburgh (RSE) Fellows (Erchova, Sabatier), Alzheimer's Research Trust (Yau) and Caledonian Research Foundation Fellowships (Bast, Jackson, Torsney).

Symptoms research: Edinburgh leads NCRI COMPASS (1.9M) with Leeds and KCL to improve management of emotional distress in cancer patients. Sharpe directs the Scottish Mental Health Research Network, part of UK-CRC, linking all Scottish medical schools (1.4M)

3.6 MAJOR IMPACTS AND PUBLIC ENGAGEMENT

Symptoms research Sharpe's work on CBT and CFS shaped guidelines and standard practice.

Work in novel methods of screening for depression in cancer patients and simple intervention for screen-detected depression are the focus of international attention for service development

Scientifically, all Centres and their programmes will continue to focus on excellence in science, excellence in translation and major societal impacts. Specific areas for new exploitation include:-

expand symptoms research, driving trials of therapeutic manipulations to address these major unmet medical needs.

4. ESTEEM

4.1 CCBS

Sharpe: Research Prize American AcademyPsychosomatic Medicine; Assoc. Editor J Psychosom Res; FRCP; Visiting Professor, Univ. Washington Seattle (2007); >20 invited/keynote lectures international conferences.

Sudlow (new CSL): Editorial boards (BMJ, Cochrane Stroke Group, BioMed Central Medicine, Stroke); Health Technology Assessment group and Association British Neurologists advisory committees for NICE; DMEC VITATOPS; 14 invited talks.

----------------------------------------------------------

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

More on Dr Crippen's retirement

I used it for Reeves but it will do just as well for Crippen...

http://wp.me/p5foE-2Hx


http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2010/03/nhs-blog-doctor-has-retired.html

Saturday, 20 March 2010

After much thought, I have decided to end NHS BLOG DOCTOR. To stop any speculation, may I just say that there has been no serious precipitating event; no crisis, no illness, no threats and no pressure from anyone. I have now retired from active practice within the NHS and am turning my mind to other things. The imperative to keep blogging about medical matters is no longer there. Nor will Dr Crippen be writing in the Guardian or not, at any rate, under a pseudonym.

It's been fun. I've said a lot, and learnt a lot. I hope some of what I said was of value. I am immensely grateful to the writers of the thousands of comments I have received, critical and not so critical, over the years. I shall in particular always remember Christian Jago (Potentilla) who is still much missed. Healthcare and the NHS is a big topic but I feel I have said what I have to say and increasingly I feel that I am just going round and round the houses. I remain committed to the ideal of a decent standard of healthcare being available to all, independent of means and status. Sadly, we are further away from that ideal than we have ever been, and I am not optimistic about the future.

When Dr Crippen appeared there were few medical bloggers in the UK. Now the medical blogosphere is well-populated and I particularly commend the Jobbing Doctor and Dr Grumble to you.

Thanks to all.
Posted by John Crippen at 18:00

Edit: See also previous post #103:

http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...Do-About-it-quot&p=56384&viewfull=1#post56384

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Here's some more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aip619LJMDo

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

For the purposes of archiving, as the orginal Crippen blog has been wiped, here is a full copy of the text of "Dr Crippen's" post from 7 March 2010 where "Dr Crippen" first announced that he had retired several weeks earlier:

Original URL was this one (now no longer available):

http://nhsblogdoc.blogspot.com/2010/03/joys-of-retirement-bring-on-scooter.html

but can be read here:

http://trusted.md/feed/items/system/2010/03/07/the_joys_of_retirement_bring_on_the_scooter

The joys of retirement : bring on the scooter

Syndicated from NHS Blog Doctor by Dr John Crippen | Sun, 03/07/2010 - 3:24am | original article
post a comment | comments (0)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jITw1fREQtQ

[Vespa scene from Roman Holiday]

A short while ago, I retired.

It's a strange business. In many ways, I had been looking forward to it but, when the day came, it was...well, strange. You do not really wind down. You finish an afternoon surgery on a Friday (well, that's what I did) and the new, young doctor takes over on the Monday. He is frighteningly well qualified and I'm sure my patients will be in safe hands.

In days gone by, retired doctors used to keep dabbling in medicine by doing locums. I've made the decision not to do that. For several reasons. I would worry about getting out of date. Yes, you can go on courses, and read the journals, but the only way properly to keep up to speed is to work fairly regularly and I don't want to do that.

Even if I did, there too many logistical difficulties. To do locums you have to pay professional indemnity insurance. That's expensive. Doing three or four sessions a week would mean an annual premium of 2265. Is it any wonder doctors get cross with the independent midwives who practice without insurance? Take a look here if your are interested in the details of the cost of professional insurance for doctors. Then there is the vexed issue of GMC fees. (Details here) There used to be a middle ground so that you could keep dipping your toe in the water. Post Shipman, that has all gone. Even doing one session a week means full GMC registration, costing 420 a year. You can, if you wish, pay 145 to maintain registration "without a licence to practice" but the purpose of that escapes me. Finally, there is the threat of regular revalidation looming. It is absolutely right and proper that doctors should be revalidated but, as yet, no one knows how to do it. The system that is approaching is post-Shipman, and theoretically designed to trap the next Shipman. It won't. There is no system that will identify plausible psychopaths. Shipman would probably have been Chairman of the Appraisal Committee. As revalidation comes in, a lot of more senior doctors will retire. Maybe that's a good thing, but the NHS will lose a lot of experience. So, after much thought, and some regret, I have resigned from the GMC. I'm no longer registered. I am no longer a practising doctor and I am not allowed to practise. Irritatingly, this means I can no longer write out a prescription for my annual 100g tube of Betnovate Ointment for the contact dermatitis I occasionally get on my hands. I shall have to see my doctor instead. Mind you, since retirement, I am no longer washing my hands dozens of times a day, and my skin is currently unblemished. Apart from that, I do not see any problems about no longer being a registered medical practitioner.

The GMC tell me I'm still entitled to call myself "doctor" - even if you are no longer registered with the GMC, they cannot take your qualifications away from you. You are still a "doctor" albeit non-pracitsing. I've never been the sort of doctor who signs in at hotels using the title, so that is of little interest to me.

I have retired earlier than many doctors, and that has had repercussions on my pension, which is not as big as it might have been. It's hard to get 40 years in as a doctor anyway and, because I had done law before medicine, I was a particularly late starter. But I will not starve, and I am luckier than many. It will, and already does, mean much more time for books and music. I'm re-reading Bleak House at the moment. It was "inserted" into me when I was 14 by a pushy English teacher and I hated it. Now, it's a joy. There ought to be a law about forcing young children to read "good" books when they are not ready for them. I'm also reading "Race of a Lifetime : how Obama won the White House" I have just bought the new Martin Amis. He's a few years older than me, and the most articulate curmudgeon currently writing in the English Language. That will be next week's pleasure. And I am battling with Welsh moles (and am grateful for the numerous suggestions I have been sent - I particularly liked the one from Eric) but so far I am too squeamish to go out and kill them myself. I am targeting my favourite composers - currently working my way through the Mahler symphonies. Joy.

Finally - and here I need some advice - I am going to buy a scooter. Or maybe even a small motor-bike. Mrs Crippen is horrified and is talking about psychiatric treatment or maybe even divorce. I rather doubt she will be appearing on the pillion. The children are having fits of laughter. They have bought me a Quadraphenia DVD and are threatening to buy me a parka with a large target on the back. There is little advice in magazines and on the internet about the best sized engine to get. I do not know anyone who has a scooter, so I've talked to friends who have motorbikes, Sadly, as soon as you say the word "scooter" to them, they put a look on their face as though there is a bad smell in the room. I shall persevere. I don't need to do a CBT or test to ride a 50cc scooter but a scooter-riding patient said avoid a 50cc engine; too slow, and you can't get out of danger quickly enough. So it should be a 125cc or even a 250cc engine.

[Image scooter]

Should it be a retro- Vespa to fulfull my Gregory Peck fantasy, or the more pratical, prosaic, ever reliable large wheeled Honda SH125? I don't see Audrey Hepburn on the Honda and anyway I doubt our elf & safety commissars would approve of riding sidesaddle.

[Image scooter]

Advice on this would be much appreciated. 50 cc seems too underpowered. 125 may be OK. Or maybe I should get a 250 cc. Then there are the limo-scooters. Like driving round in a three piece suite:

[Image scooter]

I am going to do the CBT and the formal motorcycle driving test. I must say most of the motorcycle training schools I have talked to have been friendly, helpful and positive but they all recommend doing the test on a geared bike. I'm steeling myself up for a day with teenagers doing the CBT and will see how I feel after that. Maybe a Harley to live out my Easy Rider fantasy. Has anyone any personal experience of talking up scooters and motor bikes in advanced middle age or should I, as Mrs C recommends, see a counsellor?

----------------

See also previous post #103:

http://www.forums.aboutmecfs.org/sh...Do-About-it-quot&p=56384&viewfull=1#post56384

 

[Dx Revision Watch]

Someone has written to me, this evening, to ask whether "Dr Crippen's" retirement might be related to a recent letter campaign to the Guardian, for which signatures were collected.

I have said that I very much doubt this.

Dr Crippen posted on 7 March, saying that he had retired "A short while ago". I think he also mentioned in the comment section to that posting that he had already been retired several weeks before his announcement.

Dr Crippen was a long serving, senior practitioner within his practice. The practice, he says, has recruited a replacement, who he implies, is already installed. There may have been an overlap period, too - he doesn't say.

But I would imagine that a substantial period of notice would have been required for the termination of his employment with the practice and in order that a replacement might be recruited.

I would consider that this would likely have been planned well before Christmas which would predate the letter and signatures that were sent to the editor of the Guardian.

So no, I doubt there was any connection at all.

 

[maryb]

I'm so very glad he's WELL enough to enjoy his retirement...

 

[froufox]

I am too brainfogged to contribute properly to this thread but one of my fave Blur songs sums up Weasel for me.. oh and Dr Crippen too.. and all the other CHARMLESS MEN out there.. LOL
Uncannily accurate lyrics esp "his days are tumbling down upon him" (we hope)

"Charmless Man"

I met him in a crowded room
Where people go to drink away their gloom
He sat me down and so began
The story of a charmless man
Educated the expensive way
He knows his claret from a beaujolais
I think he'd like to have been Ronnie Kray
But then nature didn't make him that way

He thinks his educated airs those family shares
Will protect him, that you will respect him
He moves in circles of friends who just pretend that they like him
He does the same to them and when you put it all together
There's the model of a charmless man

He knows the swingers and their cavalry
Says he can get in anywhere for free
I began to go a little cross eyed
And from this charmless man I just had to hide

He talks at speed he gets nose bleeds
He doesn't see his days are tumbling down upon him
Yet he tries so hard to please he's just so keen for you to listen
But no-one is listening and when you put it all together
There's the model of a charmless man

He thinks his educated airs, those family shares
Will protect him, that you will respect him
Yet he tries so hard to please he's just so keen for you to listen
But no-one is listening and when you put it all together
There's the model of a charmless man

[video=youtube;NQhLtd58Jxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQhLtd58Jxc[/video]

 

[flybro]

Someone has written to me, this evening, to ask whether "Dr Crippen's" retirement might be related to a recent letter campaign to the Guardian, for which signatures were collected.

I have said that I very much doubt this.

Dr Crippen posted on 7 March, saying that he had retired "A short while ago". I think he also mentioned in the comment section to that posting that he had already been retired several weeks before his announcement.

Dr Crippen was a long serving, senior practitioner within his practice. The practice, he says, has recruited a replacement, who he implies, is already installed. There may have been an overlap period, too - he doesn't say.

But I would imagine that a substantial period of notice would have been required for the termination of his employment with the practice and in order that a replacement might be recruited.

I would consider that this would likely have been planned well before Christmas which would predate the letter and signatures that were sent to the editor of the Guardian.

So no, I doubt there was any connection at all.

Perhaps the knowledge of his forthcoming retirement is what emboldened him to share the real NHS take on ME CFS and not just his own attitude. I imagine he thinks he is doing his chums a favour.

I try to imagine the imeasurable pain that the likes of Crippen, Wessley and crew have caused, and then imagine them trying to bear that pain.

 

[Hip]

If Simon Wessely were to suddenly experience pangs of conscience, and withdraw from his leading position in making the medical profession think that a serious disease like myalgic encephalomyelitis is "All in the Mind" just for the purposes of saving money for insurance companies like Unum and Swiss Re, do you not think that these wealthy and apparently unscrupulous insurance companies would not appoint some other malleable expert or professor to perform this twisting of facts? Unum Group Named Second Worst Insurance Company In US.

Instead of just focusing on Wessely and his network of acolyte colleagues, it would be good to also start boycotting these insurance companies. We would have to find out which high street insurance companies use Unum and Swiss Re insurance products. For example the large UK company Aviva (formerly Norwich Union), who do a lot of automobile insurance, uses Unum products (but we need to check these facts before going ahead).

With the latest CDC figures showing that 2% of the population now have chronic fatigue syndrome, once CFS patients, their families, and their friends start boycotting these insurance companies, that will show that the CFS community is not as frail and easy to push around as these megalomaniac insurance companies think.

 

[Dr. Yes]

An interesting and hip idea.
​

 

[Countrygirl]

Excellent idea Hip. I not only have my insurance with Aviva, but they possess my little nest egg. If they are associated with Unum, I shall not renew my insurance with them and shall withdraw my savings. Naturally, I shall explain to them in writing why I am doing this.

 

[Hip]

And if these insurance companies start getting more and more of these letters, explaining exactly why we have withdrawn our personal business from them, maybe they will start to take notice.

It might be useful to have someone who knows the insurance industry to look at this, to determine exactly who re-insures whom, so that we can have an accurate list of offending insurance companies.

From the The Hummingbirds' Foundation for ME, it says this:

"The insurance companies known to be involved in CFS/ME claims include, in addition to UNUM, Swiss Life, Canada Life, Norwich Union [now Aviva], Allied Dunbar, Sun Alliance, Skandia, Zurich Life and Permanent Insurance, and as Re-insurers, the massive Swiss Re. ... These insurance companies all seem to be involved in RE-INSURANCE; for example, Norwich Union. ... There seem to be two ways in which claims are underwritten between insurers and re-insurers: either the insurers agree to pay claims up to a pre-determined cut-off limit, after which the re-insurer becomes liable, or else the insurer and the re-insurer agree from the outset to share the costs of a claim."

Certainly, people are now becoming wise to the underhanded tactics of Unum. For anyone who has not seen this BBC video report on how Unun are trying to alter even the UK's welfare system, see it here.

In this BBC report, one US insurance commissioner said "Unum is an outlaw company... that for years has operated in an illegal fashion".

This BBC report also says that "Unum had senor executives sitting on key [UK] government working groups... and has provided detailed memorandum on transforming the [UK] benefits system."

So this is how Unum does its outlaw work: by maintaining a set of scientific "experts" and executives, sitting in influential government positions, to force its agenda upon the world.

As a result of this outlaw behavior, scientific research into CFS has very likely held back by at least two decades.

One cannot help feeling that if it were not for these outlaw insurance companies, scientific advances would have already made CFS/ME a very treatable (if not curable) disease by now, much as science has made HIV/AIDS very treatable.

Just out of their own selfish, short-sighted agendas, these insurance companies have fooled many governments and medical officials for several decades into believing that CFS/ME is not real, and thus governments have done next to nothing, in terms or organizing a CFS research strategy, while all the time, the numbers of people with CFS/ME continue rising, ultimately making this problem, and its economic costs to society, even greater.

Well done, insurance companies.

 

[Knackered]

Wouldn't the government rather we were actually working? I'm not sure I buy in to this talk of them not wanting to treat us. It's not like everyone who's ill is denied IB currently.

I mean, if it turns out XMRV is what's doing me in, if I start on the antiretrovirals and I start getting better I'll start working and I won't have to bother with benefits anymore.
Even if the cost of the drugs to treat me are expensive (600 a month) it'd still work out cheaper for the government not to have me on benefits.

 

[Hip]

Wouldn't the government rather we were actually working?

Well exactly. In the long term, it would have been better, even for the insurance companies themselves, if they had promoted research into a cure or effective treatment for CFS/ME. Instead, for the insurance industry's short-sighted profit-guarding tactics, they denied the reality of CFS/ME, and as a result, research in this condition has stagnated for decades, except for a few highly talented and dedicated scientists.

Even now, there is the real danger that the Wessely School and the Insurance Lobby will rubbish the XMRV research in the eyes of the government and medical clinicians, and try to bury it. I don't think that is going to happen this time, but that's what they are clearly aiming for.

And as you say, it is stupid, because the best thing for CFS patients, and the Insurance Industry, would be a cure for CFS. So why is Unum and others so short-sighted about this? They of all people should be promoting CFS research. In the short term they may have to underwrite more disability claims, but in the long term, we will have a CFS-free world.

 

[Angela Kennedy]

Well exactly. In the long term, it would have been better, even for the insurance companies themselves, if they had promoted research into a cure or effective treatment for CFS/ME. Instead, for the insurance industry's short-sighted profit-guarding tactics, they denied the reality of CFS/ME, and as a result, research in this condition has stagnated for decades, except for a few highly talented and dedicated scientists.

Even now, there is the real danger that the Wessely School and the Insurance Lobby will rubbish the XMRV research in the eyes of the government and medical clinicians, and try to bury it. I don't think that is going to happen this time, but that's what they are clearly aiming for.

And as you say, it is stupid, because the best thing for CFS patients, and the Insurance Industry, would be a cure for CFS. So why is Unum and others so short-sighted about this? They of all people should be promoting CFS research. In the short term they may have to underwrite more disability claims, but in the long term, we will have a CFS-free world.

I think we have to consider the possibility (I'd argue probability) that they are thinking only short-term, and are prepared to have 'collateral damage' occur. Free market economics and all that.

 

[Dolphin]

I'm not sure we can necessarily extrapolate from what Wessely's views are to what insurance companies' views are in terms of denigrating the significance of XMRV. Do we have evidence insurance companies are denigrating the significance of XMRV or saying that CBT/GET will still be the answer? (Apologies if it was said in this thread - don't feel inclined to look back too far).

 

[Hip]

I'm not sure we can necessarily extrapolate from what Wessely's views are to what insurance companies' views are in terms of denigrating the significance of XMRV. Do we have evidence insurance companies are denigrating the significance of XMRV or saying that CBT/GET will still be the answer?

HI Tomk

If you are prepared to do the reading and research, you can find the answers. Here are some easy-to-digest links to start you off:

• Psychiatrists Paid by Outside Interests - Extracts from “CORPORATE COLLUSION?” by Margaret Williams

• Notes on the Insurance issue in ME/CFS

• Unum's Policy Directive to 
Stop Recognizing 
ME

• "Professor Simon Wessely and Professor Michael Sharpe, were working on reclassifying ME/CFS as a psychiatric disorder. A change in classification would save the insurance industry millions of dollars."

 

[Dolphin]

HI Tomk

If you are prepared to do the reading and research, you can find the answers. Here are some easy-to-digest links to start you off:

• Psychiatrists Paid by Outside Interests - Extracts from “CORPORATE COLLUSION?” by Margaret Williams

Corporate Collusion is from Sept 2007

• Notes on the Insurance issue in ME/CFS

From Oct 2003

• Unum's Policy Directive to 
Stop Recognizing 
ME

Largely about this paper: Acta Psychiatr Scand 2008: 1–8
No mention of XMRV

• "Professor Simon Wessely and Professor Michael Sharpe, were working on reclassifying ME/CFS as a psychiatric disorder. A change in classification would save the insurance industry millions of dollars."

From August 2007.

The relevance of the dates is that XMRV was only associated with ME or CFS in Oct 2009.
I'm perfectly willing to accept that SW, MS and co influence the insurance industry and the former may enjoy the support of the latter.
But that's not the same thing as proving the insurance industry are against connecting XMRV with ME or CFS in my mind.

PS. I believe I have read most of those documents before.