The Undetectable Infection

[Elph68]

One very specific part of the undetectable infection that I believe is key to all of this immune dysfunction is protease.

Now I know one of the moderators specifically attacked the comments I made, there was something mentioned about gardening and tools ..... but what that has done has given me the motivation to research this further. ....

I believe that bacterial protease expression is the missing link and is being overlooked by the researchers

This is why ....

....... Unfortunately, the innate immunity system of mucosal membranes is more easily compromised and most bacterially-mediated infectious diseases begin after breach of this barrier. Nevertheless,only bacteria that are equipped with the appropriate means to bypass, inactivate or hijack host defenses are capable of this activity. The spectrum of virulence traits allowing pathogens to survive the antibacterial activities of innate immunity is astonishing. Some of these tactics rely on proteolytic activity elaborated by the pathogens. This comes as no surprise if one takes into account that the effector and signaling molecules of innate immunity are proteins and peptides that can be inactivated by bacterial proteases.

Those of you who are interested, may find this particular article interesting .....

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2743019/

This is why I believe, and have previously stated in this thread, some people recover on anti-viral therapy because anti-viral therapies are generally protease inhibitors .......

Basically, proteases damage the immune systems signallers, so the immune system then doesn't activate when the body is attacked ..... I am just wondering if anybody else here can see how familiar this sounds ......

Putting this in plain english, the bacteria take out the sirens which calls the immune system into action which then allows any pathogen to take up residence ......

 

[MeSci]

One very specific part of the undetectable infection that I believe is key to all of this immune dysfunction is protease.

Now I know one of the moderators specifically attacked the comments I made, there was something mentioned about gardening and tools ..... but what that has done has given me the motivation to research this further. ....

@Jonathan Edwards is not a moderator. He is a scientist, a member of PR's Board of Directors and a highly-respected and valued contributor to the forums.

 

[Elph68]

@Jonathan Edwards is not a moderator. He is a scientist, a member of PR's Board of Directors and a highly-respected and valued contributor to the forums.

Thanks for clearing that up MeSci.

And just to clarify .... I am a research scientist .... All be it a very outspoken one.

But the world needs outspoken scientists .... otherwise life would be boring and some things would never be solved ....

Most of my peers would probably disagree however ....

 

[MeSci]

In this post you said

I am a research social scientist

Social science is a somewhat different discipline from science.

 

[Elph68]

Re

In this post you said


Social science is a somewhat different discipline from science.

Depends on ones perspective ..... The interaction of humans on the geographic world is in essence no different than bacteria in a mirobiome and the similarities are well documented in numerous papers.

Infectious diseases are very much a part of social science.

Research, or the collection of data, operates under the same principles, the skill is in the interpretation of data, and deciding on what path to take next .... That is what makes a scientist.

This is off topic, but I am happy to continue in a private discussion.

 

[freddy77]

love your comment MeSci ,social science has nothing to do with science .The make up of the human body and its workings is science . A nurse or doctor dont have to pass social science in their training .


Depends on ones perspective ..... The interaction of humans on the geographic world is in essence no different than bacteria in a mirobiome and the similarities are well documented in numerous papers.

Infectious diseases are very much a part of social science.

Research, or the collection of data, operates under the same principles, the skill is in the interpretation of data, and deciding on what path to take next .... That is what makes a scientist.

This is off topic, but I am happy to continue in a private discussion.[/QUOTE]

 

[Elph68]

love your comment MeSci ,social science has nothing to do with science .The make up of the human body and its workings is science . A nurse or doctor dont have to pass social science in their training.

[/QUOTE]

Lol ....

Definition of scientist in English:
noun
expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences:a research scientist

 

[MeSci]

Definition of scientist in English:
noun
expert knowledge of one or more of the natural or physical sciences:a research scientist

As your link states, physical sciences includes physics, chemistry and astronomy. I have studied these as well as biology and medical science and earth sciences/geology. These are all sciences. Social science is not.

Here is a description of social science. And here is a university page listing their social science departments.

Science and social science are separate departments in universities.

I think that your science study has been informal, has it not? I'm afraid that doesn't make you a scientist in the usually-understood sense. Many people study informally, especially nowadays with the huge wealth of information on the internet. But formal study is usually needed to refine one's knowledge and understanding in a deeper way. I personally found that the testing aspect - difficult as it can be - is a very important part of this refinement.

 

[freddy77]

great words couldn't of put it better my self .MeSci

 

[knackers323]

what is the monolaurin for guys. killing the bacteria or the biofilm?

@Elph68 can we test for the protease? would testing the immune system show up anything to help us identify if this is a problem?

would this test be of benefit? http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/streptococcus.asp

also if your still looking for drs I heard dr whiting and dr bird are always looking for new ideas

has anyone tried anything natural like neem oil, banderol or some sort of "universal" anti bact/viral like sodium chloride for this?

 

[bluebellgirl]

I agree freddy77 just because someone uses a lot of medical terms does not mean they know what they are talking about. A while ago someone posted that they became sick after being in an Asian country, Indonesia I think, and I wonder if Elph68 has also been to an Asian country? Picking up a bug in an Asian country might be the reason why some people are sick I think because their they have never been exposed to these bugs before so their immune system can't fight them.

 

[knackers323]

can you still explain exactly what you elph is saying that you think is untrue?

he is putting forward an idea. what makes you so sure that it isnt valid?

if you have some definitive proof that it cannot be viable then id love to hear it. it would be one less possibility for the cause of my illness that id have to worry about

 

[freddy77]

I agree with you bluebellgirl , These Asian countries are a bad place if you go there .If you eat the wrong foods , drinks and play around .They programs on the tv worn you of this kind of thing .But some people are so thick , what goes around comes around . Any way each to their own ..

 

[Sea]

can you still explain exactly what you elph is saying that you think is untrue?

he is putting forward an idea. what makes you so sure that it isnt valid?

if you have some definitive proof that it cannot be viable then id love to hear it. it would be one less possibility for the cause of my illness that id have to worry about

I'd suggest you go back and read what Jonathan Edwards wrote when you asked for his opinion. I don't agree with everything Jonathan writes but when he as an immunologist says these ideas are just a stringing together of medical sounding words with no framework that makes any sense I understand that he does know what he talking about.

 

[knackers323]

ok you know what page its on roughly?

 

[Sea]

ok you know what page its on roughly?

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...etectable-infection.26770/page-21#post-534787

 

[Mark37]

Hi Elph,

Thanks for your reply. I agree phage isn't a panacea, actually nothing is or this site wouldn't exist. But in combination with other therapies it might do the trick. Applying the right combination of therapies for the individual is the solution. If not based on reliable diagnosis or lab work, then trial and error is all we have.

I've been mega dosing sodium ascorbate/vit C and have had fantastic results. Pain is gone!! Clarity of thought and energy levels are back. First night after big dosing l had very vivid dreams, like never before.

As you're aware I've visited a lot of docs, "specialists" etc with varying results. Big doses of Vit C has truly helped me and l didn't want to post till l was sure. It may be the last piece of the puzzle for me.

The first days/weeks you'll have to guess where your dose is at. Some rushed visits to the toilet may ensue, so don't try this if you've just started dating. Lol.
Gut pain, gurgling etc will come, but it settles down.

Am also 6 weeks into accupuncture and Chinese herbs for the related neurological issues and myoclonus. 3 weeks in l got very sick, a good thing, but since then myoclonus has stopped and have been enjoying the full body tingling/twitching slowly settling down.

People are asking me why l look so good. If only they knew.

This isn't over, but lm winning and full health is so very close now. If this as good as it gets, then lm happy, what matters in my life is back. If l need Vit C for life, then I'll make my own liposomal. Sheesh, I've made a lot of foods and drinks trying to kill this bastard over the years.

I've wasted a fortune on arrogant, ignorant unaccountable medical fools, some causing more harm, all with no solution. I've also met genuinely caring healers, offering some help and guidance, it's the combination of vitamin therapy, herbs and diet that is now working for me. It's by no means a quick fix, there isn't one anyway.

Thanks for your posting Darren, your words gave me strength when l was as low as l'd ever been.

Your knowledge, commitment and support has been on display all along.

We're all battling our own way, together it's so much easier and faster to recovery.

All the best to you and yours.
Mark

 

[Mark37]

@Mark37 I find it interesting that you use gse. Why do you use that as an antibacterial exactly?

I had some success with big doses of pycnogenol. I now wonder if this is why.

I have heard people feel better after taking bicarb before. How far away from food should it be taken, or does it not effect the acid in the gut used to break down food?

Also I've heard that using too much decreases the acid that keeps candida in check. ?

@knackers, gse helped for a while, but then l needed to take bigger doses. This in conjunction with colloidal silver had some results, but not sustained. It is worth investigating if you haven't tried, l got the nutribiotics brand. It is good stuff and broad spectrum, which helps if don't know what you're fighting.

As much as possible, l really wanted to take herbs/ meds that weren't "anti" which might cause untold harm now or later on.

Currently l'm on monolaurin, omega 3 fish oil, sodium ascorbate, zinc and b6, vit D. This in conjunction with a very clean diet. Well mostly.

Monolaurin is a biofilm buster and also has anti viral/bacterial/fungal properties. It's been effective for me.

 

[Elph68]

Wow ..... what an interesting few posts .....

OK, let us deal with this one first .........

As your link states, physical sciences includes physics, chemistry and astronomy. I have studied these as well as biology and medical science and earth sciences/geology. These are all sciences. Social science is not.

Here is a description of social science. And here is a university page listing their social science departments.

Science and social science are separate departments in universities.

I think that your science study has been informal, has it not? I'm afraid that doesn't make you a scientist in the usually-understood sense. Many people study informally, especially nowadays with the huge wealth of information on the internet. But formal study is usually needed to refine one's knowledge and understanding in a deeper way. I personally found that the testing aspect - difficult as it can be - is a very important part of this refinement.

Since starting this tread in 2012, all as I have done is researched a theory and presented arguments to support that theory, each particular component of this theory has been supported by 'scientific documents' ie. Reports from people who know what they are doing. These 'medical terms strung together' are all supported by scientific fact! Check the thread .....

Secondly, as stated, I am a research scientist, a problem solver, and I am very good at research. And I have had my fair share of lab work testing soil and water samples studying soil structure and identifying bacteria and contaminants ..... Attached are copies of the last page of my academic record and a letter from the Dean of Science, Information & Technology congratulating me for outstanding academic achievement as I had been placed on the Dean's Honour Roll of Academic excellence ..... I did that twice ..... Maximum one can achieve is 3 times in a 3 year degree .... I am sorry MeSci, you are wrong ...... And for the record, UTAS is rated in the top 2% of Universities worldwide.

Because of my academic ability the doors are open in any of the science fields .... including medecine .....

As far as 'stringing Medical Terms Together' I have presented my theory to numerous Microbiologists, including Dr Lipkin ..... His response was ..... Even though I may have a plausible explanation he does not know enough to recommend treatment, nor does he have the resources to research my theory ...... I even offered to pay!!!

With regards to Asia, I am in contact with a microbiologist in Indonesia, who works in Japan, and yes, they are researching these bacteria and are very concerned as Asians consume a lot of carbs and they are becoming highly resistant to treatment ........ We are quite possibly on the verge of a global pandemic ......

Thanks Mark37 for your vote of confidence, given the amount of people who PM me, you aren't the only one. And BTW, high dose vitamin C can result in the immune system seeing it as a pathogen and it can develop ways to deactivate it ..... But you are right, there is a lot of people who swear by it, and it does seem to work ....

One of the unusual things with Humans is that if someone proposes something that threatens/challenges their beliefs/thinking and makes them feel insecure, the first thing they do is attack the credibility of the person making the statements. Fortunately I am very secure in my position and confident in my skill set..... So if it makes you feel better, go for it as I don't give a rip!!!!

The research presented here is what I used to obtain treatment from a conservative infectious disease specialist ..... Solid scientific evidence to support a theory, resulting in a positive outcome and treatment that has worked ...

If you don't like what I write, don't read this thread ..... If you think my arguments aren't sound, present factual evidence to say otherwise .... If you have an opinion, I am happy to look for/find evidence to support or disprove it.

This is the full treatment with or without antibiotic support ..... And remember this is not advice but what I have worked out and now use ........

Antibiotic support can either be high dose for a short period, or lower doses for longer

Kill the bugs ......

Wild Oregano Oil (drops under tongue and capsule)
(Olive leaf extract or Grapefruit seed extract also helps) and as Mark37 stated vitamin C
Lauricidin (monolaurin) or Interfase plus
xlear drops in eyes and nose (xylitol)

1 tsp of bicarb of soda 3x per day
1 tsp tumeric 3 x per day ... I mix these together in water with psyllium husk
1 TBSP of Codliver oil

methylcobalamin - 1ml under tongue
Proteolytic enzymes (a little more than just digestive enzymes)
Prescript Assist - Soil based probiotic (or similar)
Saccharomyces Boulardii
Brewers yeast
Kefir colonic flushing and oral consumption (coconut water is probably best)
Co Q10
Magnesium Chelate
Zinc
Selenium

Green tea with grated ginger, cinamon, lemon and sweetened with xylitol (sometimes i use Manuka Honey)
xylitol chewing gum
Oil pulling .... 1 tbsp of sesame oil swished around the mouth for 10+ minutes before brushing
Good quality unsalted butter (eat it like a piece of cheese) Contains butric acid which feeds the colon cells
Bone Broth

Plenty of fermented foods, Fats and protein (eat plenty of fish and eggs), ginger, garlic, lemon and chilli, leafy green vegetables .... No simple carbs or sugars, no yoghurt or milk, no fruit (strep love fruit), no wheat or legumes..

Get outside, go to a forest and get really muddy regularly ........ Eat some dirt, but right away from civilization ....

This protocol will kill the bugs, rebuild the immune system and put good bugs back to replace what is killed.

Antibiotics will accelerate the results ..... Best antibiotics are clarithromycin or erythromycin if a macrolide hasn't been used in the last 6 months, better if used in conjunction with a second abx. such as keflex or a tetracyclene.

Vancomycin + Augmentin Duo Forte works best

Never Use Ciprofloxican ........

I believe Breast Milk from a healthy donor would be the best probiotic, rather than using feces.

Theoretically persistence with this regime should bring close to full health within a year .....

It works for me .....

Cheers.

 

[Elph68]

what is the monolaurin for guys. killing the bacteria or the biofilm?

@Elph68 can we test for the protease? would testing the immune system show up anything to help us identify if this is a problem?

would this test be of benefit? http://www.greatplainslaboratory.com/home/eng/streptococcus.asp

also if your still looking for drs I heard dr whiting and dr bird are always looking for new ideas

has anyone tried anything natural like neem oil, banderol or some sort of "universal" anti bact/viral like sodium chloride for this?

Hey Knackers,

Protease are substances that break down proteins into amino acids ..... Different proteases act in different ways .... The immune systems activators are proteins, so if the protease produced by certain bacteria kill the immune activators, the immune system doesn't know to attack the bacteria and can't activate if other pathogens are present .... The plasmid or genetic material within a certain strain of bacteria, can be shared with others, resulting in different bacteria being able to do the same thing ......

The answer is that a regular strep ASOT test may not be of real benefit as doctors here don't take a real lot of notice, but there is some evidence (according to bioscreen) that Anti DNASE B activity can be detected, but certainly not in all cases. Typically however this is not tested for and when I asked my GP to test, mine were actually through the roof ...... His argument was that it only says I had a strep infection sometime in the past .....

Cheers.