Boyd Haley's OSR for XMRV

[Navid]

Anyone have any thoughts about this as a treatment vs XMRV:


"Anyways, it looks like OSR is then likely a good thing if one has XMRV, first because it allows glutathione to raise and do its antiviral job, and second maybe because OSR, that has the same properties as glutathione in the sense that it has a high affinity for disulfide bonds, likely also directly attaches to the XMRV coat protein and interferes this way with the virus activity (penetrating cells and replicating). Boyd does not say exactly that from OSR, but he descibes this for glutathione so I don't see why it would not apply to OSR as well.

Interesting also to hear that glutathione binds to the S-S bonds on the virus coat and marks it this way for elimination through the liver. I guess OSR does the same thing, or I hope so... Maybe an interesting point would be to know how to facilitate this process of elimination of a virus bound to OSR by the liver. Can there be bottlenecks there? How to improve this elimination? I have a picture in my mind of a bolus of OSR taken orally, attaching to a big load of XMRV virus particles and causing a traffic jam in the liver elimination process... How can we make sure the roads are wide open there...

Now another interesting point is that Judy Mikovits mentioned that the XMRV coat protein in itself is neurotoxic. So even if the virus is dead, bits of the coat protein will act as a neurotoxin. Now if this coat protein includes several disulfide bonds and OSR binds to them, then I guess OSR will help with this as well, eliminating these bits of neurotoxic proteins..."

 

[JPV]

First off, we're not yet sure that XMRV even exists. I think it's a bit premature to discuss ways to treat a "theoretical" virus.

Second, several health practitioners, such as Paul Cheney, now believe that Glutathione supplementation may be detrimental for CFS/FM/ME sufferers. And from the anecdotal evidence that I've read on this forum, from people experimenting with various ways of increasing Glutathione, I would tend to agree.

I experimented with Whey Proteins for a few weeks. It seemed to help for the first week, but then did nothing.

Currently, I am experimenting with a Stone Age type Diet, Digestive Enzymes, Probiotics and Sub Lingual B12. I'm taking Cateye's advice and working on digestion issues first. This makes a lot sense to me, since you probably can't really assimilate nutrients and supplements properly with a faulty digestive system. I would imagine that a lot of normal bodily functions, such as the production of Glutathione, would naturally tend to work better if an individual was absorbing nutrients properly.

 

[julius]

First off, we're not yet sure that XMRV even exists. I think it's a bit premature to discuss ways to treat a "theoretical" virus.

I disagree. I think it's fine to think a couple steps ahead. If XMRV is 'it', then we will have some ideas to run with. If not, nothing lost. So long as no one is taking unnecessary risks.

Having said that, this particular compound has not had any safety testing, so there is certainly a question of risk here.

 

[ukxmrv]

Thank you LisaG for posting that. Went to another website and had a read about this product. I had no luck raising Glutathione by the normal methods so always good to have alternatives to consider

 

[Gerwyn]

First off, we're not yet sure that XMRV even exists. I think it's a bit premature to discuss ways to treat a "theoretical" virus.

Second, several health practitioners, such as Paul Cheney, now believe that Glutathione supplementation may be detrimental for CFS/FM/ME sufferers. And from the anecdotal evidence that I've read on this forum, from people experimenting with various ways of increasing Glutathione, I would tend to agree.

I experimented with Whey Proteins for a few weeks. It seemed to help for the first week, but then did nothing.

Currently, I am experimenting with a Stone Age type Diet, Digestive Enzymes, Probiotics and Sub Lingual B12. I'm taking Cateye's advice and working on digestion issues first. This makes a lot sense to me, since you probably can't really assimilate nutrients and supplements properly with a faulty digestive system. I would imagine that a lot of normal bodily functions, such as the production of Glutathione, would naturally tend to work better if an individual was absorbing nutrients properly.

XMRV exists all agrre on that.I think the best that will ever be is treatments for the effects of the virus.It exists in the human genome that has been proven does it cause ME we dont know can the physiological and neuroendocrine symptoms of ME be caused by a virus yes

 

[Gerwyn]

Thank you LisaG for posting that. Went to another website and had a read about this product. I had no luck raising Glutathione by the normal methods so always good to have alternatives to consider

THere may be something continually depleting glutathione.We all seem to have high NO that would do it.The methods would probably help with glutathione depletion but not if it is actively been depleted--just a thought

 

[mojoey]

Took OSR for more than a year, didn't get better, tested pos for XMRV.

 

[JPV]

XMRV exists all agrre on that.I think the best that will ever be is treatments for the effects of the virus.

I guess I should have said that it's not really clear yet that it's exists as the cause of CFS/FM/ME. Even some of the researchers at WPI admit that it may be a "passenger/co-infection" which is what I believe to be the case.

 

[Navid]

First off, we're not yet sure that XMRV even exists. I think it's a bit premature to discuss ways to treat a "theoretical" virus.

i find this response patronizing. if you think the question is naive just scroll by.


xmrv does in fact exist. we just don't know if it's causal for cfid's.

i don't think it's premature to explore different treatments after having tried abx, anti-virals, gut modification, homeopathy, yasko..bal, blah, blah...and still debilitated by fatigue...unable to function.

thanks to others for their constructive feedback.

 

[JPV]

i find this response patronizing. if you think the question is naive just scroll by.

xmrv does in fact exist. we just don't know if it's causal for cfid's.

Try reading the response that I gave, right above the post that you just wrote.

thanks to others for their constructive feedback.

I guess in addition to missing my clarification, right above your post, you also missed my other (hopefully constructive) comments such as...

Second, several health practitioners, such as Paul Cheney, now believe that Glutathione supplementation may be detrimental for CFS/FM/ME sufferers. And from the anecdotal evidence that I've read on this forum, from people experimenting with various ways of increasing Glutathione, I would tend to agree.

I experimented with Whey Proteins for a few weeks. It seemed to help for the first week, but then did nothing.

Currently, I am experimenting with a Stone Age type Diet, Digestive Enzymes, Probiotics and Sub Lingual B12. I'm taking Cateye's advice and working on digestion issues first. This makes a lot sense to me, since you probably can't really assimilate nutrients and supplements properly with a faulty digestive system. I would imagine that a lot of normal bodily functions, such as the production of Glutathione, would naturally tend to work better if an individual was absorbing nutrients properly.

 

[julius]

So, are you suggesting we shouldn't try to treat co-infections?

 

[JPV]

So, are you suggesting we shouldn't try to treat co-infections?

No, not at all. It's just that Glutothione supplementation seems to have generated mixed results in many people. It's hard to say why.

Also, I have yet to see much information regarding how XMRV is supposed affect a persons physiology in order for anyone to make an assessment on what treatments would help. I've seen some suggestions by Mikovits, but they seem cursory at best. It seems a bit premature, to me at least, to be looking for supplements to use in it's treatment. As has been said by someone else here on the Forum, conditions such as Lyme and EBV have been known for years. Few substantive and reliable treatments have been developed for either of these conditions and what does exist, is the source of much controversy. To expect any better for a more recent discovery seems overly optimistic to me.

Like I said, I've chosen to work on digestion related issues for now. I think it's probably very important to get your body assimilating nutrients as best as possible before exploring other options. Hopefully if I can get my body to digest properly, other things will naturally fall in place. For example, here is some evidence that, if your digestive system is compromised, undigested food particles can make it into your bloodstream and put an extra burden on the immune system which has to deal with all these particles. The theory is, If you you can stop this process from happening, you allow your immune system to ease up and focus on other issues.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Try reading the response that I gave, right above the post that you just wrote.

There is no need for the belittling tone of your posts. Your second post was posted at exactly the same time as lisa's so there is no way she could have seen it.

 

[JPV]

There is no need for the belittling tone of your posts. Your second post was posted at exactly the same time as lisa's so there is no way she could have seen it.

Yeah, I guess I didn't notice that.

Either way, her implication that others were offering "constructive" advise and I wasn't, was "belittling" to me. I realize that I may have come accross as attacking everybody's current favorite "Sacred Cow" but I did try and offer what I beleive to be good advice, in addition to my criticism.

 

[cfs since 1998]

Yeah, I guess I didn't notice that.

Either way, her implication that others were offering "constructive" advise and I wasn't, was "belittling" to me. I realize that I may have come accross as attacking everybody's current favorite "Sacred Cow" but I did try and offer what I beleive to be good advice, in addition to my criticism.

You came across that way with your statement that XMRV might or might not "exist" -- I'm pretty sure after having isolated it in prostate cancer patients and CFS patients, sequencing it, using it to infect cell lines, etc. we can conclude with reasonable probability that it does exist. Of course we don't know if it causes CFS or not, but I'm sure everyone here is aware of that. If you think it is premature to discuss particulartreatments then you certainly don't have to, but I see nothing wrong with speculating about whether a certain treatment has potential or not -- there is an XMRV treatment subforum for that reason. Your more recent posts are certainly more constructive and helpful and I'm sure everyone appreciates that.

Regarding glutathione, administering glutathione directly to CFS patients leads only to increased oxidized glutathione, which isn't good. NAC, whey protein, and other methods of raising glutathione indirectly may or may not work. But the thread asked about OSR, which I haven't heard of, so I can't comment further.

 

[lebowski]

"Either way, her implication that others were offering "constructive" advise and I wasn't, was "belittling" to me."

the best thing to do to avoid this is not deserving it in the first place .. no one here needs anyone to teach them what they should discuss at the moment .. if u find this threat an unimportant one , go to one u choose , i was interested in this one and u blocked the subject ..

 

[natasa778]

Even some of the researchers at WPI admit that it may be a "passenger/co-infection" which is what I believe to be the case.

If XMRV is really there, and is actively replicating, there is just NO way that it would not be pathological. A replicating retrovirus cannot be harmless. Even in its latent form it could potentially be causing many problems, triggering pathological mechanisms...

 

[Gemini]

Very well put, natasa, that a replicating retrovirus cannot be harmless. There's a classic Science magazine article titled "How Does HIV Cause Aids?" by Robin Weiss, Chester Beatty Labs, Institute of Cancer Research, London, May 28, 1993 that describes the scientific debate back then over whether the retrovirus HIV was a harmless bystander orthe cause of AIDS. This was twelve years after HIV was discovered, and I think what Dr. Mikovits is saying is that we have the advantage of three decades of retroviral knowledge today that can be applied to XMRV. I see you're in London, by any chance would anyone at the Chester Beatty Labs comment on XMRV and CFS/ME?

Gemini

 

[avatar]

cfssince1998, do you have a reference for this idea that glut is adding to oxidative stress?
I wonder if a way to get around it would be to combine it with b12, which makes it harder for it to be oxidised?
it's called glutathionlycobalamin in that form. I read some comment by Prof Dick Deth that alzheimer's patients were experimenting with it in that form.
www.drneubrander.com/.../BioChat 20050713 - Dr Richard Deth.doc -
I meant to try and dig something up on that, but never got around to it.
Some folks on the cfs_yasko list have been making their own home made blends of glutathionylcobalamin & I did also in the past myself.
I think I made too much once.....caused horrible brain inflammation.. took days to wear off.
I want to go back to it....just using lower dosages...

 

[richvank]

Regarding glutathione, administering glutathione directly to CFS patients leads only to increased oxidized glutathione, which isn't good. NAC, whey protein, and other methods of raising glutathione indirectly may or may not work.

Hi, cfs since 1998 and the group.

I just want to note that from 1999 to late 2004, I supported efforts to raise glutathione directly in CFS, either by taking glutathione itself by a variety of modes or by taking whey protein or the amino acids that make up glutathione. Some of the people who tried these things reported benefits from doing so, while others could not tolerate them. Of the ones who benefited, I don't think it was a permanent improvement for any of them. If they stopped, their condition worsened again. In late 2004, I learned from the work of Jill James and coworkers that in autism there is also glutathione depletion, and it is linked to a partial block in the methylation cycle, which is upstream of glutathione in the sulfur metabolism. It seemed to me that this might also apply to CFS, and we have since proven that this is true. So now my approach is to encourage people with CFS to treat to lift the partial methylation cycle block. When this is done, glutathione has been found to come up automatically, without direct efforts to boost it. This is also accompanied by significant improvements in symptoms. Some of the people in our clinical study of this treatment became well enough that they were able to return to full-time work.

I have posted the Simplified Treatment Approach elsewhere on this forum (in the methylation section). There has been considerable discussion of it, as well as of a related treatment advocated by freddd, on the B12 thread. I would estimate that at least several hundred people have tried this type of treatment worldwide. About two-thirds of them have experienced improvement. Some physicians have incorporated it into their protocols for CFS, and more recently, it has been incorporated into protocols to treat Lyme disease. Both mold toxins and Lyme disease causing bacteria have been found to deplete glutathione in their hosts, and according to the Glutathione Depletion--Methylation Cycle Block hypothesis that I have proposed, glutathione depletion can lead to a partial methylation cycle block in people who are genomically predisposed, and this then results in the chronic disorder CFS.

Best regards,

Rich