Kathevans
Senior Member
- Messages
- 689
- Location
- Boston, Massachusetts
Ok. I’ve definitely fallen down that rabbit hole.
Many of you say that the first few months on this methylation protocol were tough and I can’t wait to get to the point where I can look back over my shoulder and smile knowingly. But right now that seems far, far away.
In the meantime, I’m hoping some of you might have some thoughts I could add to the mix.
I’ve fiddled with the B-Complex to get totals down in order to have a truer measure of my needs. And because I realized that something about them was making my pain much worse.
Here’s question #1. Just because you go off all supps for 4 days prior to taking the NutreEval Test, does that mean they’re out of your system and the evaluation is accurate? I’ll give them a call Monday. Meanwhile, let’s assume that yes, it’s accurate.
In that case, I’m:
Normal in A, E, CoQ10, Niacin-B3, Biotion –B7, Magnesium, Manganese & Molybdenum
Borderline in C, Thiamine-B1, Pyridoxing-B6, folic Acit-B9, cobalamin-B12 and Zinc.
High Need in a-Lipoic Acid and Riboflavin-B2
After stopping my B-complex, my heart went haywire—pvcs and afib, a trip to the ER—I titrated it back up to ½ tablet/day, a quarter of what I’d been taking, and things settled down heart-wise. Pretty much. Here’s what that looks like:
So, ½ Country Life Coenzyme B TABLET IS:
Thiamine (B1 as from Thiamine Hydrochloride) (Thianine cocarboxylase chloride) 12.5 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) (as riboflavin, riboflavin 5’phosphate) 12.5 mg
Niacin (as inositol hexaniacinate) 25 mg
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCl, pyridoxal, 5’phosphate, pyridoxine alpha-ketoglutarate HCL) 20 mg
Folate (as Folic Acid,(6S)-5-Methyletrahydrofolate-glucosamine salt) 200 mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as dibencozide, methycobalamin) 125 mcg
Biotin (as d-Biotin) 50 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as pantethine, calcium d-pantothenate) 12.5 mg
PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid)12.5 mg
Phosphatidylcholine (from soy)10 mg
Inositol (from Inositol Hexaniacinate) 6.5 mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 25 mcg
The B-12 isn’t sublingual and I know that’s a problem. So, hoping to get around sleep/anxiety issues (MAOA?), I added FMN for about 2 weeks. Initially, it did something good. Then I spiraled into sleeplessness and depression, so I moved on.
…to the sublingual MeB12, ¼ tab each morning. This lasted 5 days—I admit I pushed. I never slept well on it. I couldn’t go to sleep at all. 2 ½ mg valium helped a bit, and melatonin helped a bit. Still, I was exhausted—no more than 4-5 hours of disjointed sleep—and miserable and felt beat up every morning, so I decided to call it quits.
I must be a start low and go slow candidate. Unless—given the TCN1 & TCN2 snps I just realized I have—my alterna-doc decides I could use some lithium orotate. However, I found a thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/transcobalamin-deficiency.23027/,
where @Freddd says: “The presence or lack there of of TC2 makes no difference to directly absorbed AdoCbl and/or MeCbl.”
So? Question #2:
Experience in this realm? The TCN/MeB12/lithium orotate axis? Or have any of you very sensitive ones found that you tolerate AdoCbl better than MeCbl? (I’m referring to sleep here!)
OR:
The start low and go slow road? If I mash up the MeB12 and divide it (eyeball it?) into 32 sections, can I knife the crumbs into a gel-cap to thumb under my gums on subsequent days? Or do I need to start over each day because the MeB12 will degrade?
Finally (so sorry for the length), but I guess this is the good news. I think once I stopped the high level B-Complex, my body has been methylating somewhat because I developed a new horrible symptom—a tightening of my face, my cheeks especially, as if I’m grimacing, clenching my jaw, and along with this, a frontal headache.
It came on gradually, more and more, and I began to experiment with potassium to alleviate it. When I take the MeB12, it doesn’t appear—though granted I took no more than ¼ of the 1000 mcg tablet, absorbing (as per Freddd) about 80 mcg or 30% of that 250 mcg tablet. The ½ B Complex doesn’t seem to bring about the symptoms… 300 mg K/day seem to be sufficient.
Still trying to increase some of the other Bs I’m deficient in, I ordered and tried ½ Tablet of Dr. Ben Lynch’s Seeking Health B-Minus, which contains:
Thiamin (as thiamin hydrochloride) 12.5 mg
Riboflavin (as riboflavin-5'-phosphate sodium) 10 mg
Niacin (as inositol hexanicotinate and niacin) 90 mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal-5'-phosphate) 10 mg
Biotin 250 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as d-calcium pantothenate) 75 mg
I took the tablet at 3:30 yesterday and my symptoms of potassium deficiency began an hour later. I began modestly with a 270 mg dose at 4:30, seemed fine till that night after less than an hour of sleep, I woke with an aching face and head. I took ½ tsp of potassium gluconate—270 mg each, at about 1:30, 2:30 and 5. The second dose gave me a head rush (blood pressure issues?) and the third enough relief that I slept three hours. My problem with all this potassium is that when I reach supplementation at these levels, I wake with a sore kidney area. I thought that would only happen if your body wasn’t using it. I’m totally confused. How about @ahmo’s foot baths? How do you know how much you absorb?
Question #3: Today I have no symptoms, only exhaustion. I know that FMN, in particular, is a cofactor of folate. Are some of the other active Bs cofactors as well? I haven’t gotten that far in my understanding. Given that NutrEval says I have ‘Normal’ levels of Niacin and Biotin, should I be taking a supp with such high levels? Should I just take my Bs individually?
This is long and for any of you who get to the end, thanks for reading. Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Kathleen
Many of you say that the first few months on this methylation protocol were tough and I can’t wait to get to the point where I can look back over my shoulder and smile knowingly. But right now that seems far, far away.
In the meantime, I’m hoping some of you might have some thoughts I could add to the mix.
I’ve fiddled with the B-Complex to get totals down in order to have a truer measure of my needs. And because I realized that something about them was making my pain much worse.
Here’s question #1. Just because you go off all supps for 4 days prior to taking the NutreEval Test, does that mean they’re out of your system and the evaluation is accurate? I’ll give them a call Monday. Meanwhile, let’s assume that yes, it’s accurate.
In that case, I’m:
Normal in A, E, CoQ10, Niacin-B3, Biotion –B7, Magnesium, Manganese & Molybdenum
Borderline in C, Thiamine-B1, Pyridoxing-B6, folic Acit-B9, cobalamin-B12 and Zinc.
High Need in a-Lipoic Acid and Riboflavin-B2
After stopping my B-complex, my heart went haywire—pvcs and afib, a trip to the ER—I titrated it back up to ½ tablet/day, a quarter of what I’d been taking, and things settled down heart-wise. Pretty much. Here’s what that looks like:
So, ½ Country Life Coenzyme B TABLET IS:
Thiamine (B1 as from Thiamine Hydrochloride) (Thianine cocarboxylase chloride) 12.5 mg
Riboflavin (Vitamin B-2) (as riboflavin, riboflavin 5’phosphate) 12.5 mg
Niacin (as inositol hexaniacinate) 25 mg
Vitamin B-6 (Pyridoxine HCl, pyridoxal, 5’phosphate, pyridoxine alpha-ketoglutarate HCL) 20 mg
Folate (as Folic Acid,(6S)-5-Methyletrahydrofolate-glucosamine salt) 200 mcg
Vitamin B-12 (as dibencozide, methycobalamin) 125 mcg
Biotin (as d-Biotin) 50 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as pantethine, calcium d-pantothenate) 12.5 mg
PABA (para-aminobenzoic acid)12.5 mg
Phosphatidylcholine (from soy)10 mg
Inositol (from Inositol Hexaniacinate) 6.5 mg
Alpha-Lipoic Acid 25 mcg
The B-12 isn’t sublingual and I know that’s a problem. So, hoping to get around sleep/anxiety issues (MAOA?), I added FMN for about 2 weeks. Initially, it did something good. Then I spiraled into sleeplessness and depression, so I moved on.
…to the sublingual MeB12, ¼ tab each morning. This lasted 5 days—I admit I pushed. I never slept well on it. I couldn’t go to sleep at all. 2 ½ mg valium helped a bit, and melatonin helped a bit. Still, I was exhausted—no more than 4-5 hours of disjointed sleep—and miserable and felt beat up every morning, so I decided to call it quits.
I must be a start low and go slow candidate. Unless—given the TCN1 & TCN2 snps I just realized I have—my alterna-doc decides I could use some lithium orotate. However, I found a thread:
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/transcobalamin-deficiency.23027/,
where @Freddd says: “The presence or lack there of of TC2 makes no difference to directly absorbed AdoCbl and/or MeCbl.”
So? Question #2:
Experience in this realm? The TCN/MeB12/lithium orotate axis? Or have any of you very sensitive ones found that you tolerate AdoCbl better than MeCbl? (I’m referring to sleep here!)
OR:
The start low and go slow road? If I mash up the MeB12 and divide it (eyeball it?) into 32 sections, can I knife the crumbs into a gel-cap to thumb under my gums on subsequent days? Or do I need to start over each day because the MeB12 will degrade?
Finally (so sorry for the length), but I guess this is the good news. I think once I stopped the high level B-Complex, my body has been methylating somewhat because I developed a new horrible symptom—a tightening of my face, my cheeks especially, as if I’m grimacing, clenching my jaw, and along with this, a frontal headache.
It came on gradually, more and more, and I began to experiment with potassium to alleviate it. When I take the MeB12, it doesn’t appear—though granted I took no more than ¼ of the 1000 mcg tablet, absorbing (as per Freddd) about 80 mcg or 30% of that 250 mcg tablet. The ½ B Complex doesn’t seem to bring about the symptoms… 300 mg K/day seem to be sufficient.
Still trying to increase some of the other Bs I’m deficient in, I ordered and tried ½ Tablet of Dr. Ben Lynch’s Seeking Health B-Minus, which contains:
Thiamin (as thiamin hydrochloride) 12.5 mg
Riboflavin (as riboflavin-5'-phosphate sodium) 10 mg
Niacin (as inositol hexanicotinate and niacin) 90 mg
Vitamin B6 (as pyridoxal-5'-phosphate) 10 mg
Biotin 250 mcg
Pantothenic Acid (as d-calcium pantothenate) 75 mg
I took the tablet at 3:30 yesterday and my symptoms of potassium deficiency began an hour later. I began modestly with a 270 mg dose at 4:30, seemed fine till that night after less than an hour of sleep, I woke with an aching face and head. I took ½ tsp of potassium gluconate—270 mg each, at about 1:30, 2:30 and 5. The second dose gave me a head rush (blood pressure issues?) and the third enough relief that I slept three hours. My problem with all this potassium is that when I reach supplementation at these levels, I wake with a sore kidney area. I thought that would only happen if your body wasn’t using it. I’m totally confused. How about @ahmo’s foot baths? How do you know how much you absorb?
Question #3: Today I have no symptoms, only exhaustion. I know that FMN, in particular, is a cofactor of folate. Are some of the other active Bs cofactors as well? I haven’t gotten that far in my understanding. Given that NutrEval says I have ‘Normal’ levels of Niacin and Biotin, should I be taking a supp with such high levels? Should I just take my Bs individually?
This is long and for any of you who get to the end, thanks for reading. Any thoughts are much appreciated.
Kathleen