Cowden Lyme Protocol

[bertiedog]

The last 3 days I have done around 10450 steps each day and that was with having the mild cold. The migraine went after acupuncture but the next day I did get another migraine start but a couple of different types of painkillers got rid of it and fingers crossed no migraine yesterday or today.

Pam

 

[Dufresne]

@Daffodil @Dufresne - Some folks on MDJunction reported Cowden said not to combine his protocol with antibiotics. I think Buhner's might be safe to do with abx.

I have heard good about Buhner, Zhang, Byron White, and Cowden. Knowing what I know, I'd probably go with Cowden Condensed.

Cowden's very specific about his protocol and it doesn't surprise me he advises against mixing. I don't know what the risks might be of doing so, but I know others who've combined with some success. The way I see it is if there isn't anything known to be wrong with combining them and you don't feel you're making sufficient progress, it's worth a try.

I don't like dogmatic protocols. I think our illness is more complex than just eliminating one bug according to one strategy. To give an example: I'm somewhat intrigued by the Marshall Protocol, but I'd never consider trusting his theories through what would most likely be years of living like a vampire and also feeling pretty crappy just so he can conduct his controlled experiment. Though I think there is something to the olmesartan they use in the MP. Moreover I know that if I don't target babesia all is for naught, and of course there's no antimalarials allowed if you're doing it His way. So the more information you have about what your issues are the better decisions you're going to make.

The other thing to consider is that Horowitz says Cowden's protocol is reasonably effective. The only problem is it doesn't do well with co-infections. This was the case when I tried it. If I were just targeting borrelia I'd use the herbs as my core but mix in something that would hit intracellulars too.

 

[justy]

Hi @bertiedog - im so delighted to hear that not only are you still doing well but that you have improved some more. I am a still a while away from killing pathogens, but my Glutathione and vitamin infusions are going well - no bad reactions and inflammation is definitely reduced...

 

[bertiedog]

@justy So pleased that things are going well with KDM, you must be so relieved. Do you keep a diary too? I have found it so helpful to look back and compare with how I am now, its very encouraging. I used to get a lot of dizziness and would get this towards the end of my walk practically daily, but now I cannot remember the last time this happened. I actually look for activities now and get fed up with sitting around after an hour or so.

To be honest I really didn't believe that something like Cowden could work in this way but again looking back I can see that it for the first couple of months it did cause herxes. The co-infection that I was also diagnosed with was Ehrlichia and I believe this is one of the milder ones so perhaps I was lucky but I did have lots of viruses showing up.

How much longer have you got in Brussels and will the treatment gradually change?

Best Wishes

Pam

 

[bertiedog]

Cowden's very specific about his protocol and it doesn't surprise me he advises against mixing. I don't know what the risks might be of doing so, but I know others who've combined with some success. The way I see it is if there isn't anything known to be wrong with combining them and you don't feel you're making sufficient progress, it's worth a try./QUOTE]

Actually if you contact Nutramedix with any problem you might be having, Dr Cowden gives you advice as to what you can try. For instance he said I could try Quina instead of Samento which I did for one month but since then I have stuck with alternating Cumanda and Banderol as the main ones adding Mora and Houttuynia from time to time so actually I wouldn't really call him dogmatic, its more like a clear plan of action.

I have never taken the evening dose by the way, so just 3 doses daily.

Pam

 

[RML]

@Dufresne Thank you for the response That is my main concern, if I decide to go herbal route , should I stop abx altogether or continue with them and see how it goes for me. It's a tough choice for me, I feel I am at a cross roads with my treatment right now, or at least a few months. I'm tired of abx and want a break. Some say herbals and abx are fine together, or even works best, others of course say no.

And yes, the Sapi study is very interesting. Someone at the Nutramedix conference gave a talk on it, and was scribbling loads of notes!!! I will look more into it shortly when I have a bit of time.

@bertiedog thanks for reply too. I have before read your story of going the herbal route and liked what I read. I am glad you have such good improvements. Very encouraging to hear. Of course, everyone reacts differently, but I hope I find good results from going herbal too! Thanks for sharing your story!

I am prone to migraines, always have been, long before I got sick. But they are hormonal , and thankfully controlled by hormone pills, but I do live in terror of one striking me down or taking something that lists migraines as a side effect.

@Alea Ishikawa Thanks for the info, can I ask what is Cowden Condensed? And how is it different from the Full 9 month protocol? And why do you think it is better option?

 

[RML]

Ah ok more replies, while I posted!!!

I am specifically concerned with targeting my Babesia at the moment. Really want to knock that one out good and hard, fingers crossed.

I was hoping my new test results would be back before the special offer deadline offered to the conference goers runs out (tomorrow!) but I know deep down there is probably not much change yet, too soon.

@bertiedog One more question sorry, did you do the full cowden protocol or a mix of products? Thanks for letting me know that Dr Cowden is good at responding to questions. Good to know. I feel kinda scary embarking on this new path.

Ok, enough of me, I'm off to do some more research and try decide if I just pick a few products I'm interested in, or just try 3 or 4 months as a sample try, or go all out purchase 9 months.
Thanks again for all responses, really helpful to get some 'real' patient feedback or info.

 

[bertiedog]

@RML I had started off in late July and August building up to 9 capsules daily of Cats Caw and Japanese Knotweed, plus Andrographis before switching to Cowden from beginning of September but continued with the JK and a small amount of Andro till end of December. I did follow the Cowden protocol except for the nighttime dose from August 31 - about the end of December when I became very poorly and weak and realised that the vasodilator aspects of Samento and JK had messed me up and caused POTS to return. My electrolytes were affected because of the diuretic properties they have.

I only ever used one bottle of Sparga, and Pinella though I have stuck with Burbur for detox.

Pam

 

[RML]

thanks for that Pam. I did try Andrographis before I started any treatment over a year ago, and found I did well on it. Some of the bottles don't seem relevant to what I need - metal detox, and Bart herbs, I don't like wasting them but ordering full protocol seems best deal.

 

[justy]

@justy So pleased that things are going well with KDM, you must be so relieved. Do you keep a diary too? I have found it so helpful to look back and compare with how I am now, its very encouraging. I used to get a lot of dizziness and would get this towards the end of my walk practically daily, but now I cannot remember the last time this happened. I actually look for activities now and get fed up with sitting around after an hour or so.

To be honest I really didn't believe that something like Cowden could work in this way but again looking back I can see that it for the first couple of months it did cause herxes. The co-infection that I was also diagnosed with was Ehrlichia and I believe this is one of the milder ones so perhaps I was lucky but I did have lots of viruses showing up.

How much longer have you got in Brussels and will the treatment gradually change?

Best Wishes

Pam

4 more weeks - homesickness and missing my hsband and kids kicked in badly today...plus the 4 days with nothing to do is a killer...plus catheter vein issues (I don't appear to have any...) so yes pain is reduced so that is great but having a nasty day today and just feeling crappy.

Supposed to be adding in GG IM this week but it didn't happen - the nurses knew nothing about it, hopefully next week - 2 shots a week then I can take it home with me to do.

Gotta just keep my head down and get on though!

 

[justy]

@justy So pleased that things are going well with KDM, you must be so relieved. Do you keep a diary too? I have found it so helpful to look back and compare with how I am now, its very encouraging. I used to get a lot of dizziness and would get this towards the end of my walk practically daily, but now I cannot remember the last time this happened. I actually look for activities now and get fed up with sitting around after an hour or so.

To be honest I really didn't believe that something like Cowden could work in this way but again looking back I can see that it for the first couple of months it did cause herxes. The co-infection that I was also diagnosed with was Ehrlichia and I believe this is one of the milder ones so perhaps I was lucky but I did have lots of viruses showing up.

How much longer have you got in Brussels and will the treatment gradually change?

Best Wishes

Pam

4 more weeks - homesickness and missing my hsband and kids kicked in badly today...plus the 4 days with nothing to do is a killer...plus catheter vein issues (I don't appear to have any...) so yes pain is reduced so that is great but having a nasty day today and just feeling crappy.

Supposed to be adding in GG IM this week but it didn't happen - the nurses knew nothing about it, hopefully next week - 2 shots a week then I can take it home with me to do.

Gotta just keep my head down and get on though!

 

[bertiedog]

Sorry to hear you are feeling homesick but I guess its natural to feel like that given the circumstances. Really hope that tomorrow you feel better.

Pam

 

[xrunner]

Anyway, my main question would be can I take these herbals alongside oral abx?

The problem is that herbs can affect Ctochrome P450 enzymes in one way or another but, with a very few exceptions, there's really no research showing the precise effects, esp with Lyme herbs. This means that when you take an abx in conjunction with a herb there's the potential for that herb to affect the metabolism and clearance of abx resulting in higher or lower concentrations. Higher ones will have toxic side effects whilst lower will affect effectiveness.

Also, 9 months seems a little long to sign up for, good discount deal or not! I

You said it. Why would you want to sign up to herbs for which there's hardly any studies showing their effectiveness in treating lyme. But if you wanted to try herbals may be you could try cat's claw and see if that works for you. If that works for you then samento may also work for you. However you then may also find that cat's claw works even better at a fraction of the price.

Sapi's study of Samento, Banderol, and doxycycline is an interesting one.

Unfortunately it's a flawed study because it's just an in-vitro observation. In vitro many remedies seem effective against Borrelia and other pathogens, for e.g. colloidal silver, gse (come to mind) however in vivo they don't work the same way, they don't work at all.
It also seems odd to me that an independent (so I assume but I haven't checked) researcher trying to study alternative treatments for Lyme would focus a study on a specific brand of herbals and not also test other common Lyme herbs, esp. cat' claw from which samento is derived.

 

[xrunner]

Have just had blood tests back from my GP and still my lymphocytes are low and below the reference range and this possibly also showed up when last year my CD57 cells were only around 62. I did show high levels of many of the Herpes viruses and Coxsackie but so far it doesn't really look like my immune system has been able to get very much stronger yet.

Hi@bertiedog
That's weird. If the Lyme herbs are working they should improve immune status. By treating Lyme your lymphocytes and CD57 should come up and normalise, at the same time your viral load should come down rather than get worse as the immune suppression caused by Lyme is resolved. That was my experience.
If I were you I'd keep a check on cd57 and immune/infectious markers to make sure the Lyme protocol is actually working and the steroids whilst giving you more energy, aren't causing any viral reactivation.
Best wishes

ps: steroids are normally contra-indicated in Lyme because of their immunosuppressive effects, see p. 4 and 12 of the following
http://www.lymenet.org/BurrGuide200810.pdf

 

[Lou]

Ah ok more replies, while I posted!!!

I am specifically concerned with targeting my Babesia at the moment. Really want to knock that one out good and hard, fingers crossed.

I was hoping my new test results would be back before the special offer deadline offered to the conference goers runs out (tomorrow!) but I know deep down there is probably not much change yet, too soon.

@bertiedog One more question sorry, did you do the full cowden protocol or a mix of products? Thanks for letting me know that Dr Cowden is good at responding to questions. Good to know. I feel kinda scary embarking on this new path.

Ok, enough of me, I'm off to do some more research and try decide if I just pick a few products I'm interested in, or just try 3 or 4 months as a sample try, or go all out purchase 9 months.
Thanks again for all responses, really helpful to get some 'real' patient feedback or info.

@RML Babesia is the worst of it(Lyme) for me, too. I've decided against antibiotics. Banderol is the only thing I've found that really helps.

Could you suggest any other non pharma therapy for Babesia? Thanks.

 

[Dufresne]

@RML Babesia is the worst of it(Lyme) for me, too. I've decided against antibiotics. Banderol is the only thing I've found that really helps.

Could you suggest any other non pharma therapy for Babesia? Thanks.

Horowitz claims that none of Cowden's herbs are effective against babesia, and I assume this includes Banderol. It does nothing for me.

The best herbs to go with are cryptolepis, sida acuta, and wormwood; in that order. There are Byron White and Beyond Balance tinctures that are supposedly effective, but I don't like the price of these, nor that most vendors insist you have LLND or LLMD prescription.

My opinion is that herbs can only be helpful if your immune system is reasonably well functioning. Though it also depends on other factors and certainly the species of babesia you carry. The best treatment I've tried is chloroquine and primaquine. I've actually started experiencing night sweats, the typical babesia symptom. I can only assume this happens as the bugs are killed of in significant numbers.

 

[Dufresne]

However you then may also find that cat's claw works even better at a fraction of the price.

Unfortunately it's a flawed study because it's just an in-vitro observation. In vitro many remedies seem effective against Borrelia and other pathogens, for e.g. colloidal silver, gse (come to mind) however in vivo they don't work the same way, they don't work at all.
It also seems odd to me that an independent (so I assume but I haven't checked) researcher trying to study alternative treatments for Lyme would focus a study on a specific brand of herbals and not also test other common Lyme herbs, esp. cat' claw from which samento is derived.

The fact that it's an in-vitro study doesn't mean it's flawed.

It may be cat's claw is as effective as samento. I've tried both and haven't noticed a difference. And I also agree with Buhner who seems to think overpriced herbs is immoral.

 

[Valentijn]

The fact that it's an in-vitro study doesn't mean it's flawed.

True, it's not a flaw. But it's too preliminary of a study to draw any conclusions about its effectiveness in vivo. The in vitro study should just be Step 1 before proceeding to Step 2 and trialing it in vivo. But it's been 5 years without any apparent interest by the researchers in proceeding (or perhaps negative results were obtained but not published), so it's not looking that good at this point.

I really don't think the in vitro study is a sufficient basis to determine that the herbs are effective.

 

[Dufresne]

True, it's not a flaw. But it's too preliminary of a study to draw any conclusions about its effectiveness in vivo. The in vitro study should just be Step 1 before proceeding to Step 2 and trialing it in vivo. But it's been 5 years without any apparent interest by the researchers in proceeding (or perhaps negative results were obtained but not published), so it's not looking that good at this point.

I really don't think the in vitro study is a sufficient basis to determine that the herbs are effective.

That's why I don't wait for science. Have they really done so right by us that we should await their next move with bated breath? According to the establishment we don't have a scientific reason to be treating Lyme at all.

Don't get me wrong, science is a noble pursuit, but I find it just a little bit tedious with regard to stuff like Lyme and ME/CFS, particularly as it's my time being wasted. I've concluded science is adjunctive when it comes to these diseases.

I think if there are hundreds or thousands of accounts online, and many from people I trust, then there's something to it. Maximum trial and error of what's relatively safe is my long-term strategy. I have 10% of the brain fog I once had, I've regained the ability to read with ease, and generally I feel pretty good.

I really don't understand the mindset of patients waiting for science to direct them. From where did they get this faith?

 

[bertiedog]

True, it's not a flaw. But it's too preliminary of a study to draw any conclusions about its effectiveness in vivo. The in vitro study should just be Step 1 before proceeding to Step 2 and trialing it in vivo. But it's been 5 years without any apparent interest by the researchers in proceeding (or perhaps negative results were obtained but not published), so it's not looking that good at this point.

I really don't think the in vitro study is a sufficient basis to determine that the herbs are effective.

What you are forgetting is the experience of doctors like Horowitz and Marty Ross who find that some of the Cowden herbals are as effective as antibiotics. They have treated thousands of patients and this is their experience which is good enough for me to accept.

I also have come across many on FB who have got their health back using Cowden.

At the end fo the day we can only go by what feels right for us and my experience is very encouraging. I expect to go on with a modified Cowden for at least another year because I have been ill for so long but if my energy stays as it is I for one will be more than happy.

Pam