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Increasing aerobic workout - I crash after 15 mins - but want to gradually increase...?

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
At the moment I am able to do about 15 mins of exercise.
Actually, 4 mins of weights and 15 mins of aerobic (medium paced on my elliptical trainer).
I know exercise is good for me, but if I do over 15 mins, the next couple of days I crash and feel fatigued and achy, I guess due to adrenal fatigue. If I do between 10-15 mins, I can feel pretty much OK next day.

My question is, I want to build up to 30+ mins over time. Whats the best approach (and possibly supplements I could take ) to enable me to build up my exercise regime?
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
My question is, I want to build up to 30+ mins over time. Whats the best approach (and possibly supplements I could take ) to enable me to build up my exercise regime?
Most of us have found that it is a very bad idea to try to build up an exercise regime by trying to "stretch" your capacity for exercise. Once you get to the point where you get PEM, it seems you have actually done yourself damage. If you can discover signs/symptoms that alert you that you are about to go over your limit, I'd say, listen to your body and stop. Many of us entered permanent (so far anyway) crashes from trying to do this.

Sushi
 

minkeygirl

But I Look So Good.
Messages
4,678
Location
Left Coast
@Sushi I remember reading that the differmce between us and "regular" people, besides the obvious, is that we are unable build up.

You actually can't do 15 minutes of exercise because you crash for several days after.

IMO if you are crashing after 15 minutes then you should only be doing 5-10. The nature of this disease is PEM and your several day crash is not necessarily from adrenal fatigue

Your body is sending you a message. You need to listen.
 
Messages
233
@Bansaw - If you have ME/CFS, then I'd heavily suggest dropping down on the exercise and would ask you to consider a different form, perhaps.



Reposting from this because I think it'll help:
3. CFS patients have a lower VO2max and reach anaerobic threshold earlier.

ME/CFS is not the result of deconditioning or a sedentary lifestyle. On a 2-day CPET (cardiopulmonary exercise test), CFS patients were unable to reproduce their results from Day 1 on Day 2, indicating the effects of post-exertional malaise (PEM). Sedentary controls, however, were able to reproduce their exercise results. CFS patients were shown to give full effort, as measured by clinical instruments.

Anaerobic threshold is reached by athletes performing strenuous activities, such as a mile race. However, CFS patients may reach anaerobic threshold by performing basic tasks, standing, or even sitting. Performing at or above the anaerobic threshold results in PEM and also muscle pain from lactic acid build-up.

According to Staci Stevens of the Workwell Foundation, CFS patients should only exercise for a maximum of 30 seconds (they recommend analeptic exercise) and must rest thereafter. Programs such as Graded Exercise Therapy (GET) can push a patient beyond their energy envelope, which can lead to damage, sometimes long-term.




If you exercise, I'd suggest doing it in shorter bursts than you would have when healthier. Something like modified ("counter") push-ups and stretching might work. They say aerobic is not really good for patients.

This can be complicated if you have orthostatic issues, as well.

You might want to look into PEM Busters for recovery. I use D-ribose at lower doses to help with body pain; there is a concern it may cause glycation, leading to a hardening of the arteries and further cognitive issues, but the dose might make the poison.
 

JamBob

Senior Member
Messages
191
I wonder if you would find it easier if you were doing recumbent exercise?

By adding a few minutes each day, I can work up to 40 mins on a recumbent bike and don't get PEM whereas if I walk around a supermarket for 20 mins, I will get significant PEM.

The key for me is that standing exercise causes PEM in a way that sitting exercise doesn't. I wouldn't dare go on an elliptical but can manage on the recumbent bike.
 

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
Thanks... this is a bit sad for me since, after I do aerobic exercise, for about four hours after I feel "human". Mentally a bit sharper, clearer, more positive. But next day I feel the PEM. And actually last night I had some kind of heart palpitations they kept me awake a while. (I make take some more calcium lactate for that as I ran out a while ago).

I might try the analeptic exercises. I need to stretch etc and take it easy and build up gradually and listen to my body as many of you have said.
I used to love aerobic exercise years ago. I was as fit as a butchers dog until this CFS came onto me.
 

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
You might want to look into PEM Busters for recovery. I use D-ribose at lower doses to help with body pain; there is a concern it may cause glycation, leading to a hardening of the arteries and further cognitive issues, but the dose might make the poison.
D-Ribose for some reason made me tired after a short time. Mine has some magnesium in. Perhaps I should have balanced the magnesium out with something else?
I also tried MCT oil on the recommendation of my doctor. Absolutely no effect good or bad. It might have well have been water. And CoQ10 no effect either.
I do need adrenal support of some kind tho, and am considering licorice.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,089
Location
australia (brisbane)
Thanks... this is a bit sad for me since, after I do aerobic exercise, for about four hours after I feel "human". Mentally a bit sharper, clearer, more positive. But next day I feel the PEM. And actually last night I had some kind of heart palpitations they kept me awake a while. (I make take some more calcium lactate for that as I ran out a while ago).

I might try the analeptic exercises. I need to stretch etc and take it easy and build up gradually and listen to my body as many of you have said.
I used to love aerobic exercise years ago. I was as fit as a butchers dog until this CFS came onto me.


Many of us were exercise addicts and gym junkies not just enjoying the physical benefits but the mental benefits were good. After a stressful day hit the gym hard and smash your self into the ground followed by a protein shake, a hot shower and veg in front of the tv with a contented feeling.

I think with ME the likely hood of getting back to those days being very rare.
 

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
No, it isn't. If you have ME, it's harmful, and trying to exercise has made many of us sicker.
It actually does help me in some ways For about 5 hours I feel human and am mentally sharper, clearer etc, get a lot done. My crashes are not incredibly bad.
 

cb2

Senior Member
Messages
384
I am experimenting with exercises well. I had a doctor a few years ago advised me to increase in 10% increments. be consistent with time and pacing for two or three weeks see how I do. If tolerated increasi by 10%... So if I'm doing 10 minutes three times a week on the elliptical I would add another minute, it seems like nothing and unfortunately I've been too impatient to try that. I do continue to try exercise of sorts and haven't been in full-blown crash. I've also found that light weight training is pretty manageable it doesn't flare me up . And I believe there's a link somewhere I'll try to find it and send says not to get our heart rate above 60% for me that's 105 and I've been experimenting with trying to get up to 70% so far okay I had other iissues come up that have stalled me but they're not CFIDS related. if you can I would maybe suggest keep a monitor on your heart rate make sure it doesn't get too high. sounds like 15 minutes is too much ,not sure what exertion level you are at? I would stick with 10 minutes and or a bit lower level for a few weeks see how many days you can do that comfortably and then slowly add 10%. Also something I found helpful was some liquid l-carnitine, helps me to have a little bit and energy before exercise I can't take too much because I'm sensitive. also maybe a preempted rest before and after you exercise might be helpful ? okay good luck .. Would love to hear how this works out for you since I am too impatient to try myself would love to know if it works out for someone else.
 

mango

Senior Member
Messages
905
It actually does help me in some ways For about 5 hours I feel human and am mentally sharper, clearer etc, get a lot done.

something similar happens to me too sometimes when i have over-exerted myself...

are you familiar with the concept of "adrenaline surges"? they can feel deceptively good, but they are actually harmful.
Sometimes when the patient is running on adrenaline, it is very obvious that this is what is happening. The patient is able to do more than usual but feels very unwell and wired; a bit like they haven't slept in days but have had a LOT of coffee. At other times, particularly where the adrenaline surge is long-lasting, the adrenaline effects can be more subtle and can easily be mistaken for genuine wellbeing for a period of time.

more info here: http://www.hfme.org/adrenalinesurgetips.htm
 

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
Would love to hear how this works out for you since I am too impatient to try myself would love to know if it works out for someone else.
Thanks, - I was encouraged by this thread. I am now looking into some adrenal support and BCAAs, glutamine to help here. I definately want to work out daily, but might limit myself to very light elliptical trainer, a few weights and stretching,-analeptic.
 

SDSue

Southeast
Messages
1,066
This is a prime example of ME being impossible to comprehend, sometimes even for those who have it. How many of the rest of us did this exact thing - pushing and crashing until it was no longer an option?

ME/CFS is inconceivable. It was to me, and it will be to the next person to fall - and because it is inconceivable, most of us do a lot of damage by pushing ourselves too far before we are convinced to take this beast seriously. I pushed until I was bed bound and lost my career, home, and more.

It’s human nature to fight illness by building up our strength. ME/CFS goes against that nature.

Had you asked me, pre-ME/CFS, I would have told you I'd experienced everything from fatigue to PEM during “normal” illnesses and life. I was so wrong. How I wish I’d have listened to those who’d gone before me.

I hope you find a good balance, @Bansaw!
 

Bansaw

Senior Member
Messages
521
I hope you find a good balance, @Bansaw!
The first thing I'm going to do is rest 3 days, then do a much lighter regime starting with stretches, light weights and minimal aerobic. Then maybe get my hands on some good adrenal support supps.
 
Messages
15,786
It actually does help me in some ways For about 5 hours I feel human and am mentally sharper, clearer etc, get a lot done. My crashes are not incredibly bad.
If you think a few hours of endorphins make crashing worthwhile, then you are seriously in denial. People experience long-term and permanent deterioration from trying to push their limits with this disease. It's not a pleasant reality to accept, but ignoring it will only exacerbate the problem, and probably leave you longing for your current level of functioning.
 

DanME

Senior Member
Messages
289
At the moment I am able to do about 15 mins of exercise.
Actually, 4 mins of weights and 15 mins of aerobic (medium paced on my elliptical trainer).
I know exercise is good for me, but if I do over 15 mins, the next couple of days I crash and feel fatigued and achy, I guess due to adrenal fatigue. If I do between 10-15 mins, I can feel pretty much OK next day.

My question is, I want to build up to 30+ mins over time. Whats the best approach (and possibly supplements I could take ) to enable me to build up my exercise regime?

As others have already said, stop immediately!

Excercise isn't good for you! You may feel good about yourself, but the crash is a serious sign from your body you are overdoing! The reality and hard truth is, that you cannot build up with this disease. And it's not adrenal fatigue, but a pathological mechanism science cannot properly explain yet.

Seriously stop and avoid PEM under any circumstances, if you can. I was in quite a moderate or even sometimes mild ME state and pushed myself too hard over the years. I just couldn't believe, that it could worsen so much. But it did. I pushed myself through work, parties and even sometimes sport and payed the price. My ME worsened a lot, till I stopped doing stuff and just rested. A lot!
 
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Mij

Messages
2,353
Why do you assume it's adrenal fatigue? It is much more serious than that and no supplement or longer rest periods is going to bring you to a higher level of exercise.
 
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