• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of, and finding treatments for, complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia, long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

Advocating4ME releases goals, objectives & priorities

redviper

Senior Member
Messages
145
Hello everyone,

Advocating4ME has just released the "Blue Paper" on their website which outlines their goals, objectives and priorities moving forward. It's definitely worth reading over for all those in the M.E. community that have an interest in advocacy.

https://advocating4me.wordpress.com/
 
Last edited by a moderator:

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
@redvivper - is there a way to find out who is involved with this effort? The signature on the Blue Paper only says
Signed,

The board of directors for Advocating4ME
See the last paragraph:
Secondly you will never know the true identity of our leaders. It’s not because we want to hide from you, just to protect ourselves from negative fallout from those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, and preserve the privacy of those that we collaborate with.
 

Undisclosed

Senior Member
Messages
10,157
Secondly you will never know the true identity of our leaders. It’s not because we want to hide from you, just to protect ourselves from negative fallout from those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, and preserve the privacy of those that we collaborate with.

I think this group has some good ideas but for me, I will not, and cannot support a group whose leaders will not say who they are.
 

Denise

Senior Member
Messages
1,095

redviper

Senior Member
Messages
145
Just because there is no public face to the organization does not mean that intense collaboration between partners does not take behind the scenes. If you are curious about potentially collaborating with the organization, I would suggest you send them a message on facebook instead of questioning their motives on PR. Based off their platform, they seem very open to collaboration with those who share a similar perspective.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

snowathlete

Senior Member
Messages
5,374
Location
UK
I think this group has some good ideas but for me, I will not, and cannot support a group whose leaders will not say who they are.
Non starter for me. I'm sure they have good and honourable reasons and I can totally understand their desire for anonymity, but at least one person needs to be visible otherwise people may not feel able to support their work. It's normal for some people to be working anonymously behind the scenes but at least one person needs to be the face in order to take responsibility and give credibility to the group.

Will read what they're about if they decide to open up a little.
 

Undisclosed

Senior Member
Messages
10,157
Non starter for me. I'm sure they have good and honourable reasons and I can totally understand their desire for anonymity, but at least one person needs to be visible otherwise people may not feel able to support their work. It's normal for some people to be working anonymously behind the scenes but at least one person needs to be the face in order to take responsibility and give credibility to the group.

Will read what they're about if they decide to open up a little.

The board of directors of any organization needs to be transparent.
 

redviper

Senior Member
Messages
145
Some of you do realize this is a patient advocacy group, right? Our choice is either to protect the identity of those involved, or not participate in advocacy for the M.E. community at all. Our leadership is committed to making a difference for the M.E. community through whatever means possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
Some of you do realize this is a patient advocacy group, right? The choice for those involved is either to protect their identity, or not participate in advocacy at all. Our leadership is committed to making a difference for the M.E. community through whatever means possible
This is the same as saying, "Trust us, we know what we're doing. Just don't take off the blindfold." when we don't even know who makes up this organization.
Two other things supporters of Advocating4ME should know, firstly we will not be directly involved in the handling of any funds raised, these will go directly to the beneficiaries
https://m.facebook.com/pages/Advocating4ME/1606524889591699

So why dont we just contribute individually or through organizations that are more forthcoming?

I found the paper rather nebulous other than other organizations have failed the patient community so "we" want to help. What does that mean? Who do we complain to if, for example, there is a shift towards a policy some may disagree? Facebook?

When others whether patients, government, institutions or the CBT/GET brigade are less than transparent, we find this behavior unacceptable. We should.

I'll hold this organization to that same standard.

I'll pass.

Barb
 
Last edited:

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
I think this group has some good ideas but for me, I will not, and cannot support a group whose leaders will not say who they are.
I had to make the decision, many years ago, to be a covert or overt advocate. I chose overt. There are reasons not to, but some of us have to do it. Some of us seem to have some success at doing both however.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
I can see both sides of this. If this group was asking for donations, it wouldn't be appropriate to withhold names - in fact, you'd want them to set up formally as a non-profit so that they'd be accountable. But they don't appear to be doing that.

If all they're doing is asking for people to support specific projects - for example, support a petition that we can read and make our own minds up on, on a case by case basis - I don't see that it makes any difference that we don't know their names.

However, if they want people to support their organisation (in the sense of endorsing it by 'liking' their FB page as they're asking, for example) then I think that people will be reluctant to do that because it's not clear who we're dealing with. It's possible that they're ordinary PWME whose names wouldn't mean anything to us if we knew them - but there are some people whose names we know and associate with damaging attitudes and behaviour and if they were involved, we might not want to support the group.

It's also not clear at the moment how the group are going to behave and therefore many might find it difficult to offer the blanket endorsement that they're asking for.

What I'm saying isn't intended as criticism and I understand the wish to remain anonymous - this is not a great world for PWME to 'out' themselves in, especially in some countries. It's frustrating to feel forced to remain in the shadows and yet want to do something good for the community. Unfortunately, remaining anonymous does bring its problems when asking for other people's support.

@redviper, in this blog post on May 8 you say:

redviper said:
Hey everyone, I was part of a small team to collaborate on this letter addressing both the successes and failures of the ME community during the past year. Obviously as one of the co-authors of the letters, I think it raises a variety of relevant issues worth discussing among the ME community moving forward. Here is the final version of the letter.

Is that team Advocating4ME? Does that post reflect its position?

In that blog post, you and the team that you were part of are critical of other advocates. Personally, I don't like to see that and if that's an organisation's starting point, it's a turn-off for me. I appreciate that there are different ways of doing things but I don't see them as mutually exclusive and I don't like to see people who have worked hard to get progress for us being attacked. The section that troubles me in particular is this:

redviper said:
Unfortunately, many of the current leadership of the ME internet advocacy movement have lost sight of what is in the best interests of the community. Instead of making funding research and drug trials their number one priority, these groups have focused on building unnecessary infrastructure and Google plus hangouts that fail to address the real issues impacting the ME community. In addition to syphoning away resources and effort from other advocacy projects in the community, these groups have failed to provide sufficient results considering the vast amount of effort and resources dedicated to them. Some of the individuals in leadership roles have also come to prioritize building their personal brand over promoting the best interests of the ME community.

I can think of only one person in our community who has built infrastructure and organised Google+ hangouts and so this gives me the impression of personal attack. I doubt that I'm alone in that interpretation and so if I'm wrong, I hope you'll take this opportunity to correct that impression. It takes courage to stand up and lead - especially under one's own name - and for people safely hidden behind pseudonyms to criticise an identifiable person who is operating under their real name in the real world and is a real human being with real feelings would not be an attractive thing to most people. If this is Advocating4ME or any of its members in action, then I think that many will find this a cause for concern, and that's why I'm asking you to clarify.

I'm always sorry to raise a question over a new initiative - but I think it's important to get these things out in the open, especially at the beginning and give Advocating4ME an opportunity to respond to concerns that might be widespread but that people feel uncomfortable bringing up. Then people can make a more informed decision over whether they want to support the group.

@redviper, you are a member of Advocating4ME, I take it?
 

barbc56

Senior Member
Messages
3,657
but there are some people whose names we know and associate with damaging attitudes and behaviour and if they were involved, we might not want to support the group

I think you hit on something there but I'm only speculating. I could be completely wrong.


I'm always sorry to raise a question over a new initiative - but I think it's important to get these things out in the open, especially at the beginning and give Advocating4ME an opportunity to respond to concerns that might be widespread but that people feel uncomfortable bringing up. Then people can make a more informed decision over whether they want to support the group.

Fair point. Maybe these responses, will make this more likely to happen.

Barb

Wow, you make even more great points in your post. For some reason I was only focusing on your last point, so missed the others.
 
Last edited:

justy

Donate Advocate Demonstrate
Messages
5,524
Location
U.K
@Sasha - that's a great post and raises some important questions that I hope @redviper can address for us all. I think advocacy orgs are great and really want to support them. Im not sure yet what they will be doing the blog post was vague. I don't know about the letter you quoted as I hadn't seen it - but I also don't like the idea of personal attacks on particular community mmbers - the letter makes it pretty clear to everyone who it is they mean.

There are also some people who seem to always bring trouble that I would rather ignore, so for that reason anonymity is hard. I decided a long time ago that I would be myself on PR - with my own picture etc as I thought it was important to not be anonymous for me. If I support the group without knowing what sort of things they might be doing AND don't know who they are then its hard for there to be any accountability.

I was going to say I understand an anonymous stand, but in some ways I really don't - who will they be open to attack from if their identities are known? why be afraid of this group of potential attackers?

Persoanlly I would rather be out and proud as the saying goes.
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Sasha said:
but there are some people whose names we know and associate with damaging attitudes and behaviour and if they were involved, we might not want to support the group

I think you hit on something there but I'm only speculating. I could be completely wrong.

I've no reason to suppose that this group in particular is hiding any well-known troublemakers, and I wasn't seeking to imply that. My point was meant more to be a general one about the issue of a group not naming its members. We're such a fractured community and there are some very angry people in it who lash out in unproductive and damaging ways, and I think that's a reason for caution in supporting any group. And it's not just an issue in relation to groups that are anonymous: a new group might start up who give their names, but if their names are unfamiliar, I think the same issue of caution arises, because people don't know how they're going to behave.

When a new group starts up, all that we've got to go on is what they say about themselves - and at the beginning, that might not be enough to win people's trust.
 

redviper

Senior Member
Messages
145
Our leadership looks forward to clarifying their position further as to why they choose to remain anonymous in coming days. We look forward to continuing to offer the M.E. a viable alternative for internet advocacy moving forward . We have a bunch of innovative ideas coming for how we can make a positive impact for this community and are always seeking the collaboration of others in the community with similar objectives. Also, despite the protests of a few extremist elements here, I can assure you that our leadership remains committed to protecting the identity of those involved with our project moving forward.

@Sasha we all know you have close connections with the #MEAction Network, so people can feel free to draw their own conclusions as to why you are attempting to discredit an emerging M.E. internet advocacy organization.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Scarecrow

Revolting Peasant
Messages
1,904
Location
Scotland
@redviper I haven't noticed any extremist elements here. I think that comments have been very measured in calling attention to a group of people who want to advocate for others without disclosing their own identities.

I have been reading this thread with interest and I have to say that I do not find your response at all reassuring.
 

redviper

Senior Member
Messages
145
I'm sorry that people have had to witness the ugly side of the M.E. community in this thread. Most of these people have side agendas and comments like this make it almost impossible for sick M.E. patients to make a meaningful contribution moving forward. I'm going to recuse myself from this thread moving forward, as it's clearly not contributing anything positive to the M.E. advocacy movement at this point. That being said, I will still be checking messages here and look forward to hearing from anyone that wants to collaborate with Advocating4ME and make a difference for the M.E. community.

Cheers,
 
Last edited by a moderator: