COMT MB12 rage

[Gondwanaland]

What is the antidote when someone 2x +/+COMT had too much MB12?

 

[Sherpa]

Niacin? I don't have COMT but it helped when I was having MAO A issues

 

[Gondwanaland]

How could I forget THAT?

My husband is taking B2 to try to quit the SSRI, but had back pain, and I used 1,200 mcg of B12 drops to massage his back. A couple of hours later he called me saying he wanted to kill everyone who crossed his path

Thanks, Sherpa!

 

[Gondwanaland]

Niacin? I don't have COMT but it helped when I was having MAO A issues

hmmm he will kill ME if I cause him to flush

 

[Gondwanaland]

There he is, with a red face and not any calmer after 25mg niacin... I wonder if he would do better with niacinamide... I don't want to give him uric acid problems...

 

[PeterPositive]

Niacinamide does the trick for me. Niacin is not my friend either
I typically take 100mg.

 

[adreno]

Nicotinamide will work fine.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Is the B2 triggering thiamine deficiency? You helped me figure that one out. I now have just regular B1 and Benfotiamine on hand, and they really help. Even 2 mg of B2 (in a complex) was more than I could handle.

Please help me...
One would think that after >1 year reading about vitamins I would know what to do...
I took him to my dr to get her help about what to give him, but she prescribed him her standard protocol that apparently "works for everyone" to raise serotonin and dopamine
I just didn' realize it when there was methionine in the prescription alongside with B2...
He will actually do very well with the serotonin rasing stuff (unlike myself), but he must avoid the dopamine ones

 

[Gondwanaland]

Thank you digi for posting this video

So the inflammation (pain) that my husband has is from too much dopamine! Is that the same mechanism through which B6 causes neuropathy?

 

[Gondwanaland]

Actually the info from that video is very confusing as the dr recommends methyl suppd to treat +/+COMT
http://beyondmthfr.com/2014/05/07/how-to-balance-comt-and-mao-in-the-brain/

 

[Gondwanaland]

My husband is taking:

1/2 at breakfast, 1/2 at lunch:
5-Htp 25mg
L-Arginina 30mg
L-Taurina 30mg
CoQ10 30mg
Aspartato Mg 30mg
Potássio chelate 30mg
Inositol 50mg
W3 50mg
Vit B2 10mg
Quercitina 30mg
Manganês chelate 500mcg
G biloba 20% 30mg
Vanádio chelate 100mcg
Zinco chelate 10mg
Curcuma longa 75mg
Piperina 10mg
Metionina 30mg
Pycnogenol 50mg
Licopeno 4mg
Crisina 50mg

at 6PM:
5-Htp 25mg
Vit B6 15mg
Mg Glycina 30mg
Quercetina 20mg
Rutina 50mg
Curcuma longa 80mg
L-glutamina 50mg
FOS 50mg
Silimarina 50mg
Vanádio chelate 100mcg

He is having back pain probably from excess catecholamines
Green urine from vanadium
The dr added vanadium and manganese b/c he has high insulin
I have MB12 drops at home so she hasn't added it to the formula
I also give him Gamma E + fish oil
Silymarin has been causing us to sleep with curled wrists
His homocysteine is highish (>9), while B12 levels are >700

I am thinking to cut some stuff off of his formulae
Suggestions?

 

[Crux]

Well, this is the most difficult thing.
I want to help because you are so helpful to others, and, you are a most likable person!

My Spanish is weak,And what is W3?

Where is your husband's back pain located, specifically? Is it near organs or posterior liver?

Curcumin has methyl groups, but I don't think the dosage is high. ( I have gotten insomnia from it, but 'everything' messes with my sleep.)

Men might not need a lot of vitamin E.

I've had some kind of manic-y times with fish oil and cod liver oil.

When I took milk thistle for a long period, I began to have pain, acidic type. (?)

There,Have I made a mess of things?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I want to help because you are so helpful to others, and, you are a most likable person!

Thanks!!! You just made my day

My Spanish is weak,And what is W3?

My Spanish is also weak, I speak Portuguese W3= omega 3

Where is your husband's back pain located, specifically? Is it near organs or posterior liver?

Nope, not that pain (I have that). he has muschle rigidity which is helped by Xdermal MB12, but not at the same time as this supps

Curcumin has methyl groups, but I don't think the dosage is high. ( I have gotten insomnia from it, but 'everything' messes with my sleep.)

I didn't know that! His sleep is totally messed up and seems to get worse with this supps - no wonder

Men might not need a lot of vitamin E.

I think he does, b/c his HDL is very low. Vit E has been keeping my HDL >100 I am taking a break from it

I've had some kind of manic-y times with fish oil and cod liver oil.

COMT manic-y? Excess dopamine?

When I took milk thistle for a long period, I began to have pain, acidic type. (?)

Acidic stomach?

 

[Crux]

Thanks!!! You just made my day

My Spanish is also weak, I speak Portuguese W3= omega 3[/QUOTE]

oops,, about the language! W3 s also make me kind of manic, with insomnia.

I[/B] have that). he has muschle rigidity which is helped by Xdermal MB12, but not at the same time as this supps

This is a blooper on my part, inserting my own symptoms. Do y'all ever use DMSO for muscle pain?

[QUOTEI didn't know that! His sleep is totally messed up and seems to get worse with this supps - no wonder [/QUOTE]

Some people have reported insomnia from taking turmeric later in the day, so maybe curcumin earlier?

[QUOTEI think he does, b/c his HDL is very low. Vit E has been keeping my HDL >100 I am taking a break from it[/QUOTE]

Interesting, I thought it was saturated fat that increased HDL. Must be a variety of things...exercise?



[QUOTECOMT manic-y? Excess dopamine?[/QUOTE]

I don't have the 'ususal' COMTs, must be some other cause. I understand COMT++ can be a handful, though.


[QUOTEAcidic stomach?[/QUOTE]

It could have been back then, I was taking a lot of HCL, HC, fermented foods, and probiotics. I think there's another potential irritant in milk thistle/ silymarin. I'll look it up.


Sorry about this sloppy post; I still don't know how to do quotes.

 

[picante]

There he is, with a red face and not any calmer after 25mg niacin... I wonder if he would do better with niacinamide... I don't want to give him uric acid problems...

I hope the flush disappeared quickly! Sorry I wasn't on here yesterday, dear izzy!

As you know, my husband has double COMT +/+ and MAO A +. Niacin works fine when he has too many methyl groups, but **so does hydroxycobalamin**. He does really well on HyB12 with a teeny bit of MeB12. He also has no problems with AdB12.

Too much MeB12 makes him dopamine deficient over time. That's his bump-on-a-log state. He doesn't get rage; he becomes inert.

This is what stands out to me on your long list:
Aspartato Mg 30mg

Aspartic acid (aspartate) is excitotoxic. It is an excitatory neurotransmitter, and according to Dr. Blaylock, can lead to neurological diseases.

 

[picante]

L-glutamina 50mg

And this is a precursor for glutamate, another excitotoxin. Glutamate and aspartate are both necessary neurotransmitters, but in excess they are dangerous. Do you know anything about his glutamate-to-GABA conversion? I know mine doesn't work all that well. Is he sensitive to MSG or any of the "flavorings" and additives that contain glutamate?

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2004/05/01/glutamine.aspx

Edited: Do you know whether this supp is reduced L-glutamine or oxidized L-glutamine?

 

[Gondwanaland]

W3 s also make me kind of manic, with insomnia.

Any idea why?

Some people have reported insomnia from taking turmeric later in the day, so maybe curcumin earlier?

Definetly!

Interesting, I thought it was saturated fat that increased HDL. Must be a variety of things...exercise?

Anti-oxidants keep cholesterol from oxidizing

I think there's another potential irritant in milk thistle/ silymarin.

It must be salycilates, sulphur and histamines

I still don't know how to do quotes

It's a no-brainer: select, click reply and write below it. For advanced users just add to multiquote and later insert the replies below each quote

 

[Gondwanaland]

I hope the flush disappeared quickly!

It did, and it seemed to have helped

so does hydroxycobalamin

Both he and I get sleepy from it

He also has no problems with AdB12

We never tried AdB12

Too much MeB12 makes him dopamine deficient over time

Deficient??? I thought the rage was from too much dopamine. Does +/+COMT breaks dopamine down quickly or slowly? I only know about MAO-A being slow to break down serotonin. I have read the SNP interpreting guide at least 100 times and never know it

Aspartic acid (aspartate) is excitotoxic. It is an excitatory neurotransmitter, and according to Dr. Blaylock, can lead to neurological diseases.

And this is a precursor for glutamate, another excitotoxin. Glutamate and aspartate are both necessary neurotransmitters, but in excess they are dangerous

I am aware of that, but I thought that low doses would help with energy

Do you know anything about his glutamate-to-GABA conversion?

What symptoms should I look for?

Is he sensitive to MSG or any of the "flavorings" and additives that contain glutamate?

Always loved chinese food, but we haven't eaten that suff in ages

Do you know whether this supp is reduced L-glutamine or oxidized L-glutamine?

The more ordinary one (that I don't know which is, probably oxidized, right?)

 

[Crux]

All I've found about omega 3 is that it is a brain stimulant. I agree.

Silymarin and milk thistle are high in oxalates. They bother some folks, but I don't think I'm one... hope not, diet is too restricted now.

Sometimes, 'no brainer' describes me well, but not in the way that you've defined it.

Are things better for your husband today? Hope so.

 

[picante]

Deficient??? I thought the rage was from too much dopamine. Does +/+COMT breaks dopamine down quickly or slowly? I only know about MAO-A being slow to break down serotonin. I have read the SNP interpreting guide at least 100 times and never know it

I'm on shaky ground here, because I don't know the symptoms of dopamine excess, other than anxiety.

However, the COMT enzyme breaks down dopamine, so +/+ people have trouble breaking down dopamine, which builds up until ... the feedback mechanism kicks in, and they start making less of it! That's why they wind up deficient, with depression & lack of motivation being major.

Dopamine breakdown uses up methyl groups. When the COMT enzyme is not functioning well, methyl groups can accumulate to excess, especially when the person is taking MeB12 and Mefolate.

For my DH, an increase in MeB12/Mefolate led to massive depression & inertia back in November, and when I figured out what was going on, we dosed him up on niacin. Three large doses and he was drastically better by bedtime. And totally fine the next day for work!

Your DH's rage episode reminds me more of my own experience with trying to raise MeB12/Mefolate and trying to add in B-minus (Lynch's B complex). Apparently, either of those depletes my thiamine severely. You led me to this conclusion with your links to other threads about B vitamins, dear Izzy!

I'm now a total fan of thiamine, because it gets rid of the symptom cluster I was having: anger, dwelling on people who've treated me poorly, insomnia, hot flashes, and pain at the base of my skull above my axis. I'm taking thiamine mononitrate and Benfotiamine, both! My body has a big need for them right now.

I am convinced that the B2 or B3 in the B complex were depleting my thiamine, and even though there's a little thiamine in the formula, it wasn't anywhere near enough!