Causes for High Adrenalin

[pemone]

I seem to be suffering from some kind of adrenalin driven syndrome. Adrenalin stays high, but goes much higher after exercise for a period of about four days. High adrenalin gives me high pulse, higher blood sugars (fasting and postprandial), and brain fog. In terms of hormones, the high adrenalin is sending my ACTH very high, which sends my cortisol high. The other pituitary hormones like FH, LSH, Testosterone all go high.

I know there are adrenalin stimulating tumors, and probably they will look for those, but assuming it is not that what are some other causes for adrenalin going high? And I'm particularly interested in causes that would explain why it goes even higher - and stays higher - for about four days after any exercise.

 

[pemone]

A related question: adrenalin (aka epinephrine) is a catecholamine. Because it can go up or down in cycles all day long, spot readings from blood are not reliable. Endocrinologists instead rely on a 24 hour urine capture to even out the cycles and get your total adrenaline exposure. What confuses me is why do the endocrinologists order a 24 hour metanephrines to capture adrenalin metabolism, instead of ordering a 24 hour catecholamines? Both metanephrines and catecholamines are available as 24 hour urines, so it seems strange to me that they choose to do the indirect measurement through metanephrines. Maybe someone has insight into that?

 

[Mary]

@pone - these articles might provide some insight - it may have to do with the intensity of your exercise:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787373
http://chriskresser.com/why-you-may-need-to-exercise-less

 

[Tammy]

Sounds like you need some serious adrenal support. Are you taking anything for adrenals? Do you eat at regular intervals? I would be careful about the exercise if it is causing those symptoms for 4 days.

 

[pemone]

Sounds like you need some serious adrenal support. Are you taking anything for adrenals? Do you eat at regular intervals? I would be careful about the exercise if it is causing those symptoms for 4 days.

Did you read my post backwards? My adrenals are overactive, not underactive. The adrenals are not shot. The adrenals are firing at abnormally high levels. Why would I supplement cortisol if my cortisol levels are already over the red line?

A prior osteopath did try adrenal support and it made me really sick. I guess in retrospect we were putting fuel onto the open fire, giving my system even more of the hormones it already had too many of.

I eat three or four times a day.

 

[pemone]

@pone - these articles might provide some insight - it may have to do with the intensity of your exercise:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18787373
http://chriskresser.com/why-you-may-need-to-exercise-less

Thanks for those references. I do very low intensity exercise. As part of my version of "CFS" my body goes into glycolysis at very low levels of activity. I convert over to glycolysis at around 115 beats/minute, according to an exercise physiology lab I tested at.

Part of the problem appears to be that my adrenalin goes very high and keeps my pulse rate very high even for days after I stop exercising.

It's not the case that I am exercising intensely or frequently. It's a change within my body and inability to deal with even small amounts of exercise without running adrenalin very high for days. A hike where my pulse doesn't go above 130 is enough to set my body into misery for four days with high pulses, brain fog, etc.

 

[Vic]

Part of the problem appears to be that my adrenalin goes very high and keeps my pulse rate very high even for days after I stop exercising.

It's not the case that I am exercising intensely or frequently. It's a change within my body and inability to deal with even small amounts of exercise without running adrenalin very high for days. A hike where my pulse doesn't go above 130 is enough to set my body into misery for four days with high pulses, brain fog, etc.

Do you feel anxious? Whenever my pulse elevated I would have discomfort in my chest/back/shoulder/neck(throat).

 

[Mary]

@pone - I have no idea why your adrenalin goes so high after exercise. I'm just going to throw out something for you to consider, I have no basis for assuming it will help you, but it might be worth an experiment. Last November I stumbled across branched chain amino acids and glutamine, which are helping minimize my crashes (PEM). Here are a couple of articles which I found very interesting:

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/136/2/544S.full
http://www.ncf-net.org/forum/Fword.htm
http://www.dynamicchiropractic.com/mpacms/dc/article.php?id=41341
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/9901/rbk.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11310928


I know this may not be applicable to you at all, but it seems possible that something which helps the body with exercise, might help you. Also, here's an article which talks about bcaas and glutamine helping to reduce cortisol after exercise: http://www.musculardevelopment.com/...rtisol-muscular-development.html#.VPOlK1J0xQs
I know you're not overtraining, but just thought bcaas and glutamine might be worth experimenting with.

 

[pemone]

Do you feel anxious? Whenever my pulse elevated I would have discomfort in my chest/back/shoulder/neck(throat).

Not really. It seems very physiological, like someone injected adrenalin into me, and I just have to deal with the consequences of that.

Earlier in year, it might have been dietary stress from going too low carb. Now I am getting about four fistfuls of berries with breakfast and I don't think I am low carb enough to invoke distress.

 

[Tammy]

Did you read my post backwards? My adrenals are overactive, not underactive. The adrenals are not shot. The adrenals are firing at abnormally high levels. Why would I supplement cortisol if my cortisol levels are already over the red line?

A prior osteopath did try adrenal support and it made me really sick. I guess in retrospect we were putting fuel onto the open fire, giving my system even more of the hormones it already had too many of.

I eat three or four times a day.

Sorry............was not being specific.................I was thinking more in terms of support like adaptogens that could possibly help normalize cortisol levels..........at least until you can get further answers as to why the high adrenaline/cortisol. At the beginning stages of my illness I had high cortisol. My Dr. said it was probably my body fighting an infection........virus, bacteria, ???? whatever it was that started the whole mess. There's so many variables that could be contributing to the high adrenaline........sorry I cannot be of much help.

 

[pemone]

Sorry............was not being specific.................I was thinking more in terms of support like adaptogens that could possibly help normalize cortisol levels..........at least until you can get further answers as to why the high adrenaline/cortisol. At the beginning stages of my illness I had high cortisol. My Dr. said it was probably my body fighting an infection........virus, bacteria, ???? whatever it was that started the whole mess. There's so many variables that could be contributing to the high adrenaline........sorry I cannot be of much help.

I did try the adaptogen Ashwagandha but this made me feel bad unfortunately.

 

[Sherlock]

Hi, pone. Since you are/were VLC, I'd try having sugar (more than a little) after your next exercise session to see if that helps. Maybe your adrenalin is high for days in an attempt to create enough gluconeogenesis to replenish your muscle glycogen. That's the simplest maneuver to try. If that works then you won't have to reduce your exercise.

Or maybe your adrenalin is high to promote increased pulse to aid in clearing lactate and other exercise metabolites. A very common self-test for overtraining is to take your pulse immediately upon waking every day to see if it's rising.

You didn't mention if you get really out of breath during the exercise. If not, then maybe you have some problem utilizing oxygen which doesn't involve the lungs.

It's not the case that I am exercising intensely or frequently.

Since you go easily over the lactate threshhold, that is intensity - for you.

Maybe without this exacerbated recovery period, you'd end up with bad PEM.

Everybody's adrenalin goes up with exercise, intensity increases that. Even pre-CFS, if I exercised too long/hard/much then I'd literally be too worn out to be able to nap afterwards. The adrenalin kept me awake.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Now I am getting about four fistfuls of berries with breakfast and I don't think I am low carb enough to invoke distress

Perhaps you can find something useful about how low carb you actually are eating here:
http://chriskresser.com/are-you-lower-carb-than-you-think
http://chriskresser.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-ruining-your-health
http://chriskresser.com/7-things-everyone-should-know-about-low-carb-diets

Too many berries can also have a detriemental effect on your B1 levels which is at the core of energy generation. Low carb diets are usually too low in B1.

AFAIK high cortisol is the 1st stage of adrenal fatigue. Your thyroid is probably overactive as well.

 

[Uno]

Am going through exactly the same thing. They suspect I have Cushings Disease so please get checked out.

 

[pemone]

Hi, pone. Since you are/were VLC, I'd try having sugar (more than a little) after your next exercise session to see if that helps. Maybe your adrenalin is high for days in an attempt to create enough gluconeogenesis to replenish your muscle glycogen. That's the simplest maneuver to try. If that works then you won't have to reduce your exercise.

I like your thinking here. My best hypothesis about what is happening:

1) My body is failing to do aerobic metabolism well. This means my body is relying heavily on glycolysis, primarily from sugar, and whatever it can get from Krebs cycle.

2) When I exercise, I create additional energy demands, not only for the immediate exercise, but for tissue repair in the next three or four days after exercise.

3) My body cannot supply the energy from glycolysis given my normal glucose levels, so my body stresses out, creates adrenalin, and that in turn forces the liver to turn over my glucose to meet the additional energy need.

4) My body then relies too much on glycolysis at an elevated level for the next few days after exercise, giving me some of the more horrible symptoms I experience like a type of metabolic acidosis with compensatory respiratory alkalosis.

Adrenalin may simply be the marker for this whole process rather than the actual cause.

 

[pemone]

Perhaps you can find something useful about how low carb you actually are eating here:
http://chriskresser.com/are-you-lower-carb-than-you-think
http://chriskresser.com/is-a-low-carb-diet-ruining-your-health
http://chriskresser.com/7-things-everyone-should-know-about-low-carb-diets

The first Kresser article is fantastic, by virtue of his real-world example, and it does speak to me on many levels.

Too many berries can also have a detriemental effect on your B1 levels which is at the core of energy generation. Low carb diets are usually too low in B1.

I have markers for inflammatory bowel disease and I cannot eat starches or fruits with sucrose in them. I am stuck eating fruits that have most of the sugars as monosaccharides, and I tolerate those very well. I think the B1 problem is good to know about and can be addressed with supplementation.

AFAIK high cortisol is the 1st stage of adrenal fatigue. Your thyroid is probably overactive as well.

I think my problem is the adrenalin. And - assuming I don't have an adrenalin-secreting tumor (probably not I pray) - then the ultimate cause of the high adrenalin may be physiological stress, either from the diet or from some other issue that affects my ability to do aerobic metabolism efficiently.

 

[pemone]

Am going through exactly the same thing. They suspect I have Cushings Disease so please get checked out.

Did they test your ACTH and Adrenalin? The Adrenalin would normally be measured by a 24 hour metanephrines test. Ask your endocrinologist to do that.

The pathway in the body is normally adrenalin (from adrenals above the kidney) stimulate ACTH in the brain. ACTH then stimulates cortisol release.

They checked me for the autonomous secreting ACTH tumor and I (thank god) do not have one. I'm waiting for the 24 hour urine result, but I will be amazed if that does not show high adrenalin. All of my serum tests show adrenalin very high, sometimes off the end of the scale. Moreover, many of my symptoms correspond to high adrenalin, so it all kind of fits.

Read that first article from Chris Kresser in Gondwanaland's last post on being lower carb than you think you are. Does it resonate with you at all?

 

[Sherlock]

Adrenalin may simply be the marker for this whole process rather than the actual cause.

Don't forget to post an update.