During a crash cant fall asleep. keep startling awake all nite

[sueami]

this is all new to me. first bedbiubd severe cfs crash. twice now when i have over done seemingly small amts of activity i have a nite where i am jerked from the edge of sleep over and over by a panicked feeling of being sucked into unconsciousness instead of just falling asleep. completly exhaused now @4p.m and still cannot fall into a nap. afraid i will have a second bad night this time

would valium be a bad thi g to try? if not how small a dose is used for sleep by pwcs?

anyone else have this phenomenon and how do uoh manage it???? desperate for ideas.

ty

 

[minkeygirl]

Valium would help but if you want to try non benzo otc I've had Good luck with kava, Passion flower and sun theanine.

There are some shorter acting benzos that might work better than valium which is sedating. Oxazepam is one. Just be aware of tolerance and dependence with any benzo.

But sleep stuff like anything else is individual. What works for me won't work for you. That tired but wired is a bitch. What I found works for me when I can't shut my brain of is propranalol so go figure.

You have to just not worry whether you sleep or not or the anxiety will screw your up. Easier said than done I know.

 

[sueami]

i wonder if the startle waking might be from hi dose d ribose or coq. i started those in the general vicinity of the startle waking phenomenon ramping up with me.

and i am questoning whether i am in a crawh or just trashed from a bad nites sleep. so many variables!

 

[Sushi]

For many of us a crash means much worse sleep. If I have overdone, I have to take more of the herbals I use for sleep (I also take a prescription but don't increase that one). Once you get into a "wired and tired" state it is hard to escape without sleep aids.

Sushi

 

[maddietod]

i wonder if the startle waking might be from hi dose d ribose or coq. i started those in the general vicinity of the startle waking phenomenon ramping up with me.

and i am questoning whether i am in a crawh or just trashed from a bad nites sleep. so many variables!

This is good thinking. Maybe stop everything you changed recently, and see what happens.

 

[taniaaust1]

As some develop severe issues with benzos I strongly suggest only to use as a last resort and if you use them, dont use them on a nightly bases eg maybe twice a week to get at least some sleep (that's what my specialist advised me).

There are so many other things which can be tried first.

As Sushi said, sleep issues often do get worst in a crash.. Im currently run down myself so have worst sleep issues then I usually do.

 

[taniaaust1]

i am jerked from the edge of sleep over and over by a panicked feeling of being sucked into unconsciousness

Something like that may well be something which hypnosis could help.

Jerking thou awake isnt uncommon in ME/CFS, its your thoughts of being paniced due to being sucked into unconciousness which could be a fear based thing Im wondering if hypnosis could help.

 

[sueami]

i got a great bit of advice in my other thread but cant remember poster,s name right now. to try aleve as this was a neuroinflammatory symptom for her. worked. i had to take 2 but i slept thru the night. it jives with @Hip s tread on curing his generalized anxiety with 3 different anti inflammatories. i just ordered shellfish free glucosamine. can't wait to try it.

i have anx this am. took one aleve as an experiment. dampened it down some. i just need to work on getting inflammation down. i know its high now. i have upset my gut twice in the last week with a corn based supp and too many potass gluconate pills in the night on an empty stomach. so that has to subside. taking glutamine and turmeric for it.

 

[Valentijn]

@sueami - It might help to check your oxygen saturation and heart rate. When I have those craptastic nights, it's because my oxygen keeps trying to drop and my heart rate is hitting 95+ while lying down to compensate. It's impossible to sleep when my heart rate is that high. And it might not feel like your heart is racing, because it's pretty weak heart beats when that happens.

When I am having that problem, I take a dose of Yohimbe or Strattera to help my blood pressure normalize enough that my heart rate can fall, and I can get some sleep. Usually I don't take those after the early afternoon because they are too stimulating, but on the bad nights it's what gets me to sleep

 

[barbc56]

@sueami

I will give my stock answer here, have you had a sleep study?

Sleep apnea can cause these symptoms but then so can a lot of other conditions. A sleep study might be a place to start.

Barb

ETA

Looks like @valenjin and I crossed posts. Lack of Oxygen can certainty cause these symptoms.

 

[sueami]

hey barb. too sick for a sleep study. i could try to find an o2 sat monitor. or just trial yohimbe. ugh. so many things im takingalready. ill put it on the list tho.

 

[barbc56]

craptastic nights

I love this expression!

Barb

 

[barbc56]

hey barb. too sick for a sleep study. i could try to find an o2 sat monitor. or just trial yohimbe. ugh. so many things im takingalready. ill put it on the list tho.

There are at home sleep studies available. These are usually covered by insurance. But then you run into the problem of needing to see a doctor to get this.

Good luck.

Barb

 

[Valentijn]

hey barb. too sick for a sleep study. i could try to find an o2 sat monitor. or just trial yohimbe. ugh. so many things im takingalready. ill put it on the list tho.

If you do take it, it's best to check your blood pressure (and pulse pressure) first and make sure it's lowish, not high, and to take a small dose. I split a 400mg dose into 100mg doses.

 

[Joss]

No idea - I spent the first two years of ME unable to sleep at all - was hospitalised because of it and they couldn't help either.

I have zopiclone now for when I need it but I still only manage a few hours before waking again.

Living without any sleep is hell - these days I just try to enjoy the experience of lucid dreaming.

 

[JayBO]

Hi, one of the ways that I know if I over-exerted myself is having a raised heart rate at rest, which causes anxiety and makes it very hard to fall asleep even when I'm exhausted. I usually don't immediately realize that my body is working so hard at rest until I lay down and I can feel my heart beating fast and my mind racing. During those times I find that a combination of Xanax and deep breathing relaxation helps when lying down. Based on reading about mitochondrial dysfunction, I think that after exertion there is a general depletion of cellular energy for any number of reasons and the heart has to work twice as hard to deliver oxygen because it is weakened as well. By increasing oxygen intake through deep breathing techniques (and using small amounts of anti-anxiety meds) I find the heart returns to its resting rate, but it usually requires a few days of rest and deep breathing to get over the fatigue.

 

[sueami]

i worry abt deep breathing now that i hyperventilate a lot i this crash. how exactly do you perform it? do you feel yourself shallow rapid breathing at other times? @JayBO

 

[JayBO]

There are a lot of good audio guided relaxations to be found on Youtube, just search for "guided meditation", "progressive muscle relaxation", "deep breathing", etc and listen to a few to find one that helps you relax and breath more deeply. Even if your sleeping issues and fatigue are not related to heart rate, it can't hurt to practice relaxation techniques. Good luck!

 

[sueami]

thx jaybo.

i just read in another thread that l glutamine is a neuro exitatory amink acid. i have been takin 1.5 tsps of it a day for the last week or two b/c i am trying to heal my gut from a food allergy reaction. i will quit it immediately and hopefully my sleep will conti ue to improve.

 

[Joss]

I find it interesting you have the 'jerking awake' thing. I have never heard anyone else mention it apart from in the report of the Royal Free epidemic and myself.

When first ill, as I said, I couldn't sleep. Every time I dropped off it felt like my body tried to stop it because I would die. By the time I was hospitalised I wss having to hang my head over the side of the bed becuase I felt constantly like I was going to lose conciousness. Not in a light headed fainting sort of way but a heavy headed feeling like I was literally dying.

After a week in hospital (they had thought i might have a brain tumour) the consultant came round, poked me a bit and said 'probably psychological' and discharged me.

This all carried on for a couple of years and comes back when all my other symptoms get worse, specifically when the very top of my neck goes in to spasm and jams up under myskull.

What it feels like is that parts of my brain are nit getting enough blood or oxygen or something. It is the most appalling feeling.

The thing is, as I have now had it on and off for 19 years I no longer get anxious about it so as far as I can tell it isn't anxiety.