Adrenal Fatigue treatment. Incorrect?

[Roddy]

Hi,

I was recently diagnosed with adrenal fatigue with low morning cortisol.

Symptoms: ED, low sex drive, fatigue, craving for sugar.

I did a 24h Cortisol Saliva Test...and here the results:

24h Cortisol Saliva:
9:45AM: 4,01 nmol/L (13,10 - 23,50 nmol/L)
5:00PM: 3,31 nmol/L (3,00 - 8,00 nmol/L)
11:00PM: 2,05 nmol/L (1,00 - 2,90 nmol/L)
Total Cortisol 9,37 nmol/L (17,10 - 34,40 nmol/L)


Serum Cortisol: 18 ug/dl (3ug/dl - 25ug/dl)

Normal Calcium
Normal Potassium
Normal Sodium
Hashimoto´s hypothyroidism


So, my endo put me on this protocol to treat adrenals:

Rhodiola Rosea 200mg
Licorice 200mg
Ashwaganda 200mg
Pregnenolone 100mg

Oral. 2x daily.


2 weeks on it and feel nothing. Same symptoms.

Whats wrong?!
Is it normal?
I have to wait more?
must take hydrocortisone??

Thanks.

 

[minkeygirl]

I use licorice paste extract and B5 pantothenic acid. It has done zero for me.

Pregnenolone helps for a few hours then I crash horribly so I stopped it.

 

[Martial]

I still believe that adrenal fatigue is due rather to adrenal dysfunction, there isn't any firm medical evidence documenting a causation or syndrome of "adrenal burn out". However all the symptoms can and do occur from things dysregulating the adrenal system. This is of course my own personal opinion tying on but if I were you I would look for causes of your adrenal dysregulation rather then idiopathic adrenal fatigue. I am finding more and more recently that a lot of these cases ending up being patients with undiagnosed chronic infection such as lyme and co infection, or methylation defects that would require specific supplementation and lifestyle changes to cure.

 

[heapsreal]

Its possibly secondary to something else like chronic infections etc etc

 

[5150]

I still believe that adrenal fatigue is due rather to adrenal dysfunction, there isn't any firm medical evidence documenting a causation or syndrome of "adrenal burn out". However all the symptoms can and do occur from things dysregulating the adrenal system. This is of course my own personal opinion tying on but if I were you I would look for causes of your adrenal dysregulation rather then idiopathic adrenal fatigue. I am finding more and more recently that a lot of these cases ending up being patients with undiagnosed chronic infection such as lyme and co infection, or methylation defects that would require specific supplementation and lifestyle changes to cure.

And which of these Lyme & co-infections is contagious? because the very sick people with ME seem to be so.

 

[Roddy]

It´s an iteresting story.

5 years ago I was diagnosed with Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) due a Posttraumatic stress disorder.
I felt like I was about to explode all the time due anxiety.
It persist for about 2 years when I suddenly began to feel exhausted, calm, and strangely the symptoms (anxiety) disappeared.
I thought I was cured. Simple.

Time passes and this serenity slowly turns to fatigue and depression.
Added to this, I got into a super stressful job for 2 years. Many many weekly trips.
At this point the symptoms became intolerable: Loss os libido, pour erections. ie drastically affected my sex life.

I sought medical help and was diagnosed 2 problems: hypothyroidism (autoimmune - Hashimoto) and secondary hypogonadism (hypothalamic origin). Since then (about 2 years) efforts has been concentrated on it. No MD raised the possibility of adrenal fatigue because my serum cortisol is normal, despite the symptoms.

And, thats it: My symptoms did not disappear with treatment for hypogonadism and hypothyroidism, perhaps because of adrenal fatigue.

The point is: I'm not able to radically change my life style now however I want to live with quality.

I had a full blood work recently and there is nothing wrong. Everything were normal.

What is the possible solution?

These herbal take so long to work?
HC can fix me?

 

[drob31]

It´s an iteresting story.

5 years ago I was diagnosed with Generalized anxiety disorder (GAD) due a Posttraumatic stress disorder.
I felt like I was about to explode all the time due anxiety.
It persist for about 2 years when I suddenly began to feel exhausted, calm, and strangely the symptoms (anxiety) disappeared.
I thought I was cured. Simple.

Time passes and this serenity slowly turns to fatigue and depression.
Added to this, I got into a super stressful job for 2 years. Many many weekly trips.
At this point the symptoms became intolerable: Loss os libido, pour erections. ie drastically affected my sex life.

I sought medical help and was diagnosed 2 problems: hypothyroidism (autoimmune - Hashimoto) and secondary hypogonadism (hypothalamic origin). Since then (about 2 years) efforts has been concentrated on it. No MD raised the possibility of adrenal fatigue because my serum cortisol is normal, despite the symptoms.

And, thats it: My symptoms did not disappear with treatment for hypogonadism and hypothyroidism, perhaps because of adrenal fatigue.

The point is: I'm not able to radically change my life style now however I want to live with quality.

I had a full blood work recently and there is nothing wrong. Everything were normal.

What is the possible solution?

These herbal take so long to work?
HC can fix me?

The problem with blood values is that they can't tell you what's going on at the cellular level. It could be that you have cellular hormone resistance. Also, low cortisol will not allow thyroid hormone to enter the cell. So that will be a problem until your cortisol levels are raised to the point you can "feel them." Low cortisol, low thyroid hormone (no matter what the bloodwork shows), and that will lead to your symptoms, even with adequate levels of testosterone.

 

[Sherpa]

Hi Roddy,

I have recovered from a severe case of of Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome (AFS). All my insomnia, cortisol, sugar craving / hypoglycemia, racing anxiety type symptoms went away and have stayed back. It took me at least 1.5 years of hard work.

All the the supplements you are prescribed can be useful for adrenal fatigue syndrome. All of them, used at different times, helped me.

I followed Dr. Lam's protocol which is first to titrate up dose Vitamin C and B5 (pantethine & panththeonic acid) and help support the adrenal glands' hormone production with those. Once a degree of stability has been achieved... then I added herbs and hormones. Herbs like licorice and ashwaghana... while can be helpful... can be 'addictive' and cause crashes if you take them away. Not to say you shouldn't use them, but breaks (5 days on, 2 days off) can be helpful.

HC is extremely addictive. It will probably give you help quickly, but it may be difficult or excruciating to ever get off. It is not considered a 'first line' treatment in all but the most severe, debilitating cases of adrenal dysfunction.

I would recommend Dr. Lam's book on Adrenal Fatigue Syndrome if you want more detail info on the topics I discussed. It is a little bit complex and was very difficult for me to read when I had severe AFS and brain fog, but somehow I got through it and survived.

 

[Roddy]

Thank you all for the advices.

Any idea why I dont feel any improvements after 2 weeks on the supplements prescribed??

I´m going crazy after all treatments don't bring me back to my old happy days

 

[Mary]

@Roddy - I know mainstream medicine does not recognize adrenal fatigue or whatever you want to call it, but that means very little to me - I've experienced it and it can be a crushing fatigue. My chiropractor gave me an adrenal glandular - Drenatrophin PMG by Standard Process. I initially had to take a high dose, my adrenals were so weak - so he told me to take about 3 times the standard dose (it's been several years, hard to remember the exact dose). Anyways, within a couple of days of starting the Drenatrophin, my energy started to come back. It was amazing. But I'm pretty sure if I wasn't on a high enough dose, I would not have had that result.

I believe my adrenals got wiped out from very long term chronic severe stress (with origins in childhood abuse). Of course there could be other factors as someone mentioned above, but this seems the most likely cause.

I also found pantothenic acid to be very helpful and I started learning how to deal with stress - meditation is one of the best things out there for dealing with stress. Also a 12-step program helped me learn how to start taking control of my life, instead of feeling like I was being controlled by outside circumstances.

My chiro told me that the adrenal glandular would support the adrenals and give them a chance to rest and recover, whereas taking something like Cortef or HC would stimulate them to work even harder, eventually depleting them even further.

So your supplements sound good, but they may not be enough. There are several good adrenal glandular products out there.

My house was flooded a couple of years after I was given the Drenatrophin and I thought I was handling it well, but after a couple of days I got hit with a bone-deep fatigue (this was before I started crashing) and realized my adrenals had taken a hit from the stress. I got back on the Drenatrophin and my energy came back.

 

[ahmo]

@Roddy I'd successfully used licorice for some time. When that started contributing to my problems, I began using adrenal glandulars. These seemed to support my adrenals directly, without body having to do anything. Also hypothalamus glandular was extremely helpful for my nervous system. After 2 years I had a major elimination, following a year-long gentle detox protocol. this shifted my adrenal health dramatically. I no longer need the glandulars. I support my adrenals with coffee enemas. The CEs clear the congested, overloaded liver, which relieves the stress on adrenals. CEs are not everyone's cup of tea, but they are a mainstay of my healing. I've posted about my experiences in a blog, linked in my signature. Also, neither my cortisol results, nor, frankly, any of my pathology testing, ever indicated anything to explain how unwell I was. Even my GP aknowledged this yesterday.

 

[Martial]

And which of these Lyme & co-infections is contagious? because the very sick people with ME seem to be so.

The people with ME are contagious? I don't hear this is often the case unless in a begining acute phase of whatever initial illness/cause they are dealing with. I am not stating everyone has those infections just examples of chronic infections that easily go undiagnosed. Supposedly Lyme is congenitally transmitted along with sexually.

 

[SwanRonson]

Any recommendations for specific brands of glandulars and herbs? @Sherpa , @Mary which ones did you use and find the most helpful?

 

[Sherpa]

Any recommendations for specific brands of glandulars and herbs? @Sherpa , @Mary which ones did you use and find the most helpful?

Liposomal Vitamin C - Dr. Lam's

Seeking Health Optimal Vitamin C powder

Vitacost Pantethine

Paradise Herbs Holy Basil with Ashwaghanda, Licorice and Ginger (herbal cortisol stabilizer)

Source Naturals Cherry Flavored Sublingual pregnenolone 25mg

Drenatrophin (glandular)

Theanine Serene with Relora (cortisol lowerer)

 

[drob31]

I guess it depends on if you're trying to lower cortisol or raise it. Also, it would be great to find the root cause of why it's out of whack. I would guess some people may have pseudo cushings or undiagnosed cushings even, although it's rare.

I realize the OP is talking about low cortisol, but I just mean in general.

 

[Mary]

Any recommendations for specific brands of glandulars and herbs? @Sherpa , @Mary which ones did you use and find the most helpful?

I've used both Drenatrophin PMG and Drenamin, both by Standard Process. They're very similar, and muscle testing at various times has indicated one or the other is better for me, though both have helped. A couple of other good products are Adrenogen by Metagenics, and Cytozyme AD by Biotics.

 

[Beyond]

Lets get directly to the point, and no embark ourselves in more discussion regarding what IS this adrenal problem or how it OCCURS. The important point for us of course is treatment and recovery. I shall share my experience and knowledge with adrenal dysregulation now regarding these, haha.

"Rhodiola Rosea 200mg
Licorice 200mg
Ashwaganda 200mg
Pregnenolone 100mg"

Why dont these things work? I don´t know why, as many clinical trials prove things like standarized ashwagandha lower cortisol and in general modulate HPA positively. I know though, that they don´t work, and that is because I have tried a lot of adrenal supplements in an autonomous way and then at times under the direction of X naturopath and never got ANY effect, not even from glandulars (though just tried from Thorne) and I tell you herbals are the most worthless among them. Hell, I have a 454 grams Withania Somnifera (Ashwagandha) bag in my wardrobe, and just finishing the former, no apparent effects from weeks of taking a tablespoon a day!! Only vit C and panthetine seemed to help slightly. Those are the ones I recommend and I want to get back to them. Also, to recover from adrenal fatigue healing digestion and recovering refreshing sleep are very important at least in my case. Oh, and seemingly these two helped libido as well?? You will probably be interested in that. Panthetine lowers prolactin so thats pretty cool for poor fellows like us with grandpa hormones.

I do not know at this point after 3 years trying to treat my adrenal fatigue unsuccesfully if any supplement of the advised and recognized as standard and useful in the interwebs for low steroid hormones (last stage adrenal fatigue, everything is low, welcome to a prematurely induced senility) is actually going to heal your hormonal problems, but physiologically speaking both ascorbic acid and panthetine are very needed by the adrenal glands and depleted in times of severe or chronic stress in the mice model. Take your vitamin C with plenty of citrus bioflavonoids.

Of course, some times you just have some underlying thing like a chronic infection, and that surely is causing the adrenal decay. This could explain why supplements dont do whack.

I sought medical help and was diagnosed 2 problems: hypothyroidism (autoimmune - Hashimoto) and secondary hypogonadism (hypothalamic origin). Since then (about 2 years) efforts has been concentrated on it. No MD raised the possibility of adrenal fatigue because my serum cortisol is normal, despite the symptoms. [QUOTE/]

There you have it! Autoimmunity is serious business and probably the underlying cause of your problems. I know, because I also have/had Hashi´s and "adrenal fatigue"! My antibodies went down after a year of strict dieting and raw juicing, but dont fool yourself, autoimmunity is normally for life, it just can become dormant if you are very determined, then live your life carefully. It is common to find links to autoimmunity in CFS/ME for instance. I´d tackle your issue from that perspective. Anyone with a thyroid problem will develop adrenal problem secondary to that, also if you are not following a leaky gut diet or doing something to rearrange your immune system normal medicine expects you to slowly degenerate as your thyroid is eaten up and then remove it and put you in relatively useless artificial thyroid hormone medicine.

 

[Roddy]

Thanks again.

Why dont these things work? I don´t know why, as many clinical trials prove things like standarized ashwagandha lower cortisol and in general modulate HPA positively. I know though, that they don´t work, and that is because I have tried a lot of adrenal supplements in an autonomous way and then at times under the direction of X naturopath and never got ANY effect, not even from glandulars (though just tried from Thorne) and I tell you herbals are the most worthless among them. Hell, I have a 454 grams Withania Somnifera (Ashwagandha) bag in my wardrobe, and just finishing the former, no apparent effects from weeks of taking a tablespoon a day!! Only vit C and panthetine seemed to help slightly. Those are the ones I recommend and I want to get back to them. Also, to recover from adrenal fatigue healing digestion and recovering refreshing sleep are very important at least in my case. Oh, and seemingly these two helped libido as well?? You will probably be interested in that. Panthetine lowers prolactin so thats pretty cool for poor fellows like us with grandpa hormones.

Your condition were proved using saliva test?
As you said the treatment was up to you.

I do not know at this point after 3 years trying to treat my adrenal fatigue unsuccesfully if any supplement of the advised and recognized as standard and useful in the interwebs for low steroid hormones (last stage adrenal fatigue, everything is low, welcome to a prematurely induced senility) is actually going to heal your hormonal problems, but physiologically speaking both ascorbic acid and panthetine are very needed by the adrenal glands and depleted in times of severe or chronic stress in the mice model. Take your vitamin C with plenty of citrus bioflavonoids.

Did you ever considered trying HC to solve your 3 years problem?
I consider this my last hope, maybe.

Of course, some times you just have some underlying thing like a chronic infection, and that surely is causing the adrenal decay. This could explain why supplements dont do whack.

What type of chronic infection??
Hashimoto´s is possible?
In this case dosing adrenal antibodies might help to diagnose Addison.

 

[Beyond]

Yes saliva proves very low steroid hormones, blood instead gives me a strange high cortisol reading.

Chronic infection of any type or species. Lyme is very common, but there are plenty that some people here know of like EBV or what have you.

Hashimoto´s is not an infection but who knows if it derives from one in some cases. What is known is that it leads to hypothyroidism and that leads to the famous adrenal fatigue via negative hormone loops. Your adrenal fatigue comes from Hashimoto´s, in other words, at least it is related. You probably dont have Addison´s, at least I hope so.

 

[Roddy]

Your adrenal fatigue comes from Hashimoto´s, in other words, at least it is related. You probably dont have Addison´s, at least I hope so.

Even if I'm already on thyroid hormones?
(Synthroid+Citomel)