Transdermal B12 oils

[dannybex]

Hi gary. You're right, not $13, but close. $15.36
http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Methyl-B12-Cherry-Flavor-5000-mcg-60-Lozenges/51092#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=country life B12&rc=1462&sr=null&ic=4

But even if it's $15-16, with 60 5,000mcg tabs, isn't the Country Life cheaper per microgram?

(FWIW, I got C's in math.)

 

[ahmo]

@dannybex CL is 60 tabs/bottle. I was using 4 tabs/day: 2 bottles/month. So, $30/month. The oils, $50/bottle, said to be 50 squirts/bottle, which = 1.5 months, so same price more or less.

I can't talk micrograms, only that I'm getting at least the same benefits, and for the first time in 1.5 years don't have pink and pasty gums!!!

 

[garyfritz]

@garyfritz, I didn't think to mention it to you when we switch bottles, but I do remember being confused by the label on the Methyl b12 bottle I gave you. the ingredient list on in listed Adenosyl and Methyl, even though the label on the other side said just Methyl. I think it is possible that bottle was mislabeled. If you still have it, you could double check.

Hi Sue -- no I don't still have it. But that's the only thing I can think of that would explain what we saw. I think we had 3 bottles of ad/me and that's what I was using when I thought I was using a mix of ad/me and methyl.

 

[ahmo]

About the color: I'd say my Methyl oil looks more like the sample on the left side of @garyfritz picts. It's not as deep red as I'd originally Imagined, but not pink, either. I tried to take a pict, but it didn't stay still long enough.

 

[garyfritz]

In my palm I would call the ad/me deep blood-red, like the garnet heart you posted -- possibly even darker. The methyl is significantly lighter in color. Greg described it as the color of (caucasian) skin with a light tan.

I don't think anyone would call the methyl blood-red, even without a side-by-side comparison. It's reddish, but not deep garnet red. If it looks like a deep garnet color, it's ad/me. I think.

If everybody's really curious, I could try putting a squirt of each on my palm. I think it's a lot more visible there. Not sure how successfully I could squirt two separate pools into my palm, and how consistent the thickness of the oil would be, but I could try...

 

[ahmo]

color of (caucasian) skin with a light tan.

The Methyl???? Very confusing, mine is marked Methyl, and as I said, I now see that it's not as dark as I'd said earlier. maybe you could call it a very deep rose color...I tried squirting some on leg to photo, but it runs away too quickly...Ah well, Truth is what works, and this is working for me.

 

[garyfritz]

Yes, I'd say "deep rose" is a good description for the Methyl, maybe with a bit of tan? And blood-red / garnet is accurate for the ado/me.

 

[Little Bluestem]

I wrote to Jarrow about the citric acid being a problem. They told me I was wrong. Talk about bad customer service.

If it is any consolation, my teeth say that you are right. I'm wondering if I am going to lose one of them.

 

[aturtles]

@Little Bluestem -- this was part of the reason I went to Country Life brand.

But also why I went to vaping (http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/methylcobalamin-inhalation-therapy.33045/), which I am still doing as my primary MeCbl therapy, and why I continue to explore non-tab ways to get MeCbl into my system. I still use tabs -- on the road when I can't vape, or as backup to the temperamental mobile vaping tech (still an exploration in progress), and when I do, I use both Jarrow and Country Life.

I've found that my teeth don't mind occasional Jarrow use. It's the every day, every hour use that I found made my teeth and particularly my fillings hurt.

 

[garyfritz]

Do we need more B12 / methyls / whatever when we're sick?

I've been using the oils 3x/day (methyl oil plus some sublingual dibencozide recently, until my Ado/Me order gets here) and doing OK. Then yesterday I came down with the crud: coughing, achy, 101°F fever.

By evening I had the first RLS I've had in weeks. That night was the first episode of nightmares / thrashing / twitching I've had in months. I took some more oil & dibencozide and got back to sleep.

Apparently my body was demanding more B12 to fight the bug?

 

[PennyIA]

I just got my oils this week. I bought two - b12 with the methylcobalamin and adenocobalamin... and have tried two doses so far - thankfully no allergic reaction (since I have so many of those, I was a little nervous).

I also bought b12 ice - it's got methylcobalamin, d3 and curcurmin... I'm thinking 2 x a day with the regular b12 and the ice once a day - tried one of each this morning - again, no allergic reaction.

I haven't quite given up my sublinguals yet - but I was having trouble keeping my b12 dose higher than my folate dose, and was hoping this would help with that. After just three doses spread over two days, I do think I'm noticing the increase in b12.

Another thing I noticed that I don't think I heard anyone post yet. The spot where I had applied the oil seems to get quite warm and stays warm for a long period of time. I'm thinking that I'm going to be strategic and try to see if I can apply future doses on painful joints, sore muscles and let the heat from the dose help with some of my pain.

So, far? I really like it. I was also pretty impressed with the speed that it arrived in since it took only about two weeks to arrive in the US from Australia. I can't hardly get packages from here to Canada in less than a month - and we share a continent.

 

[Gyre]

The spot where I had applied the oil seems to get quite warm and stays warm for a long period of time.

Possibly because you are using the one with curcumin? I haven't noticed any particular warmth myself.

 

[garyfritz]

I haven't noticed any warmth either, with either methyl or Ado/Me oils.

Three doses a day is quite a bit. That's how much I use, but I titrated up to that. Any less and I suffered nasty symptoms. The recommended "normal" dosage is one squirt per day. You might want to start out closer to that level and see how you do instead of starting at a 3/day rate.

 

[PennyIA]

Possibly because you are using the one with curcumin? I haven't noticed any particular warmth myself.

Funny enough - the one with curcumin isn't warming it's the one with methyl and adeno cobalamin's that is warming.

 

[Gyre]

Funny enough - the one with curcumin isn't warming it's the one with methyl and adeno cobalamin's that is warming.

Hmm. Odd. Definitely nothing warm in my Me/Ad.

 

[PennyIA]

I haven't noticed any warmth either, with either methyl or Ado/Me oils.

Three doses a day is quite a bit. That's how much I use, but I titrated up to that. Any less and I suffered nasty symptoms. The recommended "normal" dosage is one squirt per day. You might want to start out closer to that level and see how you do instead of starting at a 3/day rate.

I did a single dose on day 1. Tried the 'other' b12 with the curcumin on day 2... no ill effects. Which was basically my allergy test.

I normally would rise up lower, and would totally suggest to anyone else to start low, and go slow with the increases... but I'm kind of, sort of ok with ramping up a little sooner for myself.

I've come into all of this backwards... and when I couldn't figure it out on my own, I hired a doctor in Colorado to suggest methylation treatment (we skype). But I don't think he quite gets it to the level that folks on Phoenix Rising do... and I'm starting to catch up and figure out some of the gaps that I think he has in his treatment plan.

BUT - at his recommendation, I had really ramped up the methylfolate to a pretty mega-high dose. BUT he did not have me also ramp up my B12 NOR has he addressed fully the deadlock quartet. I have done fairly well on his treatment, but keep hitting a wall where I kind of have to stop everything... and I think it's because of the methylb12 dosage being out of kink and not in concert with the folate dose... and I've tried to add the adenocobalamin in on my own, as that was the remaining supplement out of the deadlock quartet that I wasn't taking... only the form I was taking of it was in a multi that I was having bad experience with. When I tried doing more methylcobalamin in sublingual form I was having a really difficult time getting enough doses in and taking them through out the day - it just didn't work no matter what I tried - hence trying the oil.

Based on what I've learned in other threads, I know that I've been really under-dosing my mb12 and adeno b12 for a while based on the high dose mehtylfolate I was taking. I 'm not sure if 2.5 mg dose is equivalent to a 2.5 mg dose of a sublingual or stronger, but even if it's effectiveness is double the sublingual - than 3 doses would be equivalent to 15 mg of a sublingual which is still shy of where I need to go and also still lower than the dose I used to take before I learned about methylfolate. I seem to tolerate exceptionally high doses of b12 pretty well in the past.

So far the only side effects is a slight warming in the area where I'm applying the dose to. I have done 3 doses once, backed down to 2 doses yesterday (just forgot the third)... and I haven't had any negative symptoms yet that I didn't have before I started. My energy level and moods are slightly better after just a few days and while I can't say that the oils is the difference improving things - I'm of a mind to take on a little risk. I probably won't stay at this high dose long term, but I'd like to try it out and see if it helps me tolerate the other supplements better and if it's supplying the missing factors in my treatment plan.

 

[picante]

Time to report on my B12 oil experiments. I've got Ad/MeB12 oil with vit. D3 3,000 iu per dose. And I have MeB12 oil with the same amount of vit. D3.

December was a confusing month. I was also experimenting with my thyroid treatment and riboflavin FMN (a fiasco). Observations:

• Applying either oil in the evening caused insomnia (waking up over and over, muscle tension).
• Using both oils in one day made it impossible to keep up with potassium demands. Plus insomnia.
• I stopped my oral vit. D supplements (5,000 iu) and felt better.
  
• Applying Ad/Me B12 oil to my forearms made my myofascial pain return. MeB12 oil didn't do this.
  
• I used the Ad/MeB12 oil for a month, with extra sublingual MeB12. Gradually my brain function went downhill (although I was attributing this to ammonia or choline or other supps). My mood went downhill. Bloating & ammonia symptoms increased. Lots of intermittent hypothyroid symptoms. My need for potassium went down, from about 1200 mg/day to 600 mg/day. I started wondering if there was just too much Adeno in the oil for me.
• On Jan. 3rd I switched to using the MeB12 oil, with sublingual AdB12 (from Seeking Health -- it's easier to control the dose). In six days my brain energy has returned, my mood is brighter, and my digestion and thyroid symptoms a bit better. My need for potassium went back up -- I went into potassium deficiency big time two days ago (exhaustion and pounding heart -- not the usual neck spasms).

Conclusions:

• Using that much AdB12 every day made my methylation status a lot worse.
• I need some vit. D tests to see whether 3,000 iu / day is too much.
• Transdermal vit. D absorption is higher than oral absorption for me.

I have an unopened bottle of Ad/MeB12 oil that I may not be using. Anyone wanting to try it, message me. Remember it has vit. D3 in it.

 

[garyfritz]

Fascinating. Your response is SO different to mine.

• If I *DON'T* use the oil in the evening I'll have insomnia with muscle tension. (Though not waking up over and over; until I take some B12 I won't get to sleep.)
• I'm using 3x/day Ado/Me B12 and that has worked fabulously for several months.
• Using 1x/day Ado/Me and 2x/day Methyl did NOT work for me. I seem to need a lot of the adenosyl. (Even though methyl alone worked great for the first 6-12 months I started showing symptoms.)
• I don't have any potassium issues to speak of.

Your genome has a lot of similarities to mine but a lot of differences too. I don't understand it well enough to understand what causes your body to respond so differently to mine. I would sure like to understand it better...

It sounds like it was a rough go but I'm glad you found something that's working so quickly!

 

[picante]

Your genome has a lot of similarities to mine but a lot of differences too. I don't understand it well enough to understand what causes your body to respond so differently to mine. I would sure like to understand it better...

Yeah, no kidding! At this point, I'm under the impression that my homozygous NOS2 and NAT2 snps are causing more serious problems than my heterozygous MTHFR snps.

If I *DON'T* use the oil in the evening I'll have insomnia with muscle tension.

That's why I'm planning on ordering some B12 oils without the vit. D. I wonder if taking vit. D in the evening is causing the insomnia.

 

[Gyre]

@picante Thanks for the update. I've noticed my brain function is down and my need for K has pretty much disappeared lately after being on the Ado/Me Oil for a few weeks. I've got separate Me which I've been using at night as an extra dose, but I'm curious to see how I do on just that and maybe Ado once a week on its own.