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DEBUNKING THE MYTH OF ADRENAL FATIGUE

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
First, the hypothalamus is mainly responsible for how fatigued we are and it works mainly through orexin, but also histamine neurons.

This is interesting because I have just been recently looking at histamines. When I feel more awake, I feel warm and my veins in my arms have increased vasodilation and I have water retention. All symptoms of high histamines.


1) Fatigue. We spoke about this. The hypothalamus controls fatigue via orexin and inflammation is the most likely source. This has nothing to do with an inability to pump cortisol.

2) Stress. If we are feeling stress then that’s a surefire sign we don’t have adrenal fatigue, because stress requires cortisol! Stress can come from a number of things: not letting go, dietary lectins, low serotonin and too much cortisol.

After I let go and stopped caring about everything I haven’t felt any anxiety or fear in two years (except once or twice). Stopping lectins even made more of a difference. No matter what happens in my life, I don’t take it seriously. Over this period I’ve also become more productive – ironically, as I stopped caring about being productive.

I’ve also spoken about how a variety of cytokines like IL-1, TNF andIL-6 can stimulate the hypothalamus to release cortisol. This was the case for me and it came from dietary lectins.

But stress is more often from situational factors and an inability or unwillingness to let go. My elevator advice: stop taking yourself and your life so seriously.

3) Cravings. The hypothalamus is actually the part of the brain that is responsible for cravings and appetite. It works via orexin and NPY.

4) Low mood and motivation. Motivation is based on epinephrine and dopamine in the hypothalamus (R) and through low orexin and melanin-concentrating hormone (R). Dopamine can activate orexin (R). Read how orexin affects our mood and motivation.

5) Gut problems.The hypothalamus controls vasoactive intestinal peptide (VIP) and CRH, which influence gut function. Various cytokines like IL-8, IL-6, IL-1b and TNF can cause IBS and gut problems. Serotonin is also critical for gut function.

6) Cold hands and feet.The hypothalamus controls temperature regulation. When you get inflammation like elevated TNF alpha, this suppresses orexin and therefore appetite and causes you to get fatigued. Orexin suppression also causes lower body temperature (R) and therefore you’ll feel cold. This makes sense because to keep the body in sync (eat less and therefore conserve energy). People who are cold are usually thin as well and have a decreased caloric intake. The average American eats 3900 calories.

7) Decreased/increased appetite. The hypothalamus control appetite through orexin, ghrelin, NPY, T3, leptin, norepinephrine, serotonin, MCH, FGF21+19 and GLP-1 all of which influence appetite and interact with each other (R, R2, R3, R4). Orexin, T3, ghrelin, MCH, FGF21 and NPY increase apetite, while leptin, insulin, norepinephrine, serotonin, GLP-1 and FGF19 are appetite suppressants. Orexin is activated by glutamate and suppressed by GABA. (R) Low hypothalamic serotonin leads to increased carb cravings. Low orexin leads to decreased appetite.

8) Decreased sex drive. Hypothalamic dopamine is largely responsible for sex drive. (R) See above picture where it shows the arcuate and anterior nucleus are responsible for these.

9) Fear/Anxieties/Stress/OCD/Overly Emotional. The picture below shows how the hypothalamus executes fear from the amygdala. The point is that the hypothalmus is involved with these and the adrenals carry out the commands of the hypothalamus. When I eat lectins I get all of these symptoms and it’s because of my hypothalamus, NOT MY ADRENALS.



10) Low blood pressure, Increased thirst and urination are all from too little ADH, which is released by….you guessed it! The hypothalamus.

11) Insomnia can be from hypothalamic activation and circadian disruption, which inflammation is known to cause. Again, it’s the hypothalamus, not your adrenals.

12) Hormonal issues. The hypothalamus is the center for hormonal control…It controls the thyroid, pituitary and adrenal glands, for example.

13) Blood sugar swings, shaking and hypoglycemia. The hypothalamus controls glucose balance and if it’s not functioning you can get hypoglycemic, which can cause shaking. (R)

14) Attention problems.The hypothalamus is involved in attention (R) – hence why motivational and attentional issues often to together. (R) Orexin, melanin-concentrating hormone (R), low levels of dopamine (R) and acetylcholine (R) are also involved with attention. Inflammation can lower these neurotransmitters. Orexin increases acetylcholine (R) and so inflammation will lead to lower levels of this neurotransmitter. Acetylcholine also increases orexin (R).

15) Losing weight. The hypothalamus is the most important factor in controlling our weight. Inflammation from TNF causes us to lose weight as a result of decreasing hunger. See theTNF post.

In short, the most common reasons we are fatigued is because inflammation (IL-1, TNF) suppress orexin neurons.

Also, guess what happens when you suppress orexin neurons? Cortisol is reduced as well because Orexin A stimulates cortisol release. (R) So if you do have low cortisol it’s more likely you have less orexin, not adrenal disfunction. And why do you have less orexin? Inflammation.



http://selfhacked.com/2014/11/23/adrenal-fatigue/
 

halcyon

Senior Member
Messages
2,482
I’ve also spoken about how a variety of cytokines like IL-1, TNF andIL-6 can stimulate the hypothalamus to release cortisol.
The hypothalamus doesn't directly release cortisol.

Low blood pressure, Increased thirst and urination are all from too little ADH, which is released by….you guessed it! The hypothalamus.
The hypothalamus makes ADH but the pituitary gland stores it and releases it.

Otherwise seems like a relatively reasonable debunking of adrenal fatigue. Destruction of orexin neurons in the hypothalamus causes narcolepsy, so yeah, I could see how low orexin could cause fatigue.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
I’ve also spoken about how a variety of cytokines like IL-1, TNF andIL-6 can stimulate the hypothalamus to release cortisol.
Cortisol is reduced as well because Orexin A stimulates cortisol release. (R) So if you do have low cortisol it’s more likely you have less orexin, not adrenal disfunction. And why do you have less orexin? Inflammation.
Seems contradictory. Inflammation induces cortisol release and suppress orexin, which suppress cortisol...wait a minute ;-)
 

Sing

Senior Member
Messages
1,782
Location
New England
Too low cortisol does lead to inflammation in my experience. Sore throat and beginning flu symptoms. They subside as soon as I take 5 mg cortisol, which I do twice a day. This is the most important, helpful pill I take to stay fairly functional during the day, but it in no way stops ME/CFS.
 

Strawberry

Senior Member
Messages
2,107
Location
Seattle, WA USA
Too low cortisol does lead to inflammation in my experience. Sore throat and beginning flu symptoms. They subside as soon as I take 5 mg cortisol, which I do twice a day.

Seriously? I had thought that at the end of the work day my flu feeling and sore throat were from city pollution or PEM. I can get rid of that with cortisol? How long until it kicks in?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Seriously? I had thought that at the end of the work day my flu feeling and sore throat were from city pollution or PEM. I can get rid of that with cortisol? How long until it kicks in?

You could make a test by eating liquorice, just to see if you get an effect and should explore that further with a doctor. There are substances in liquorice that inhibits the breakdown of your own cortisol. You can google this as it is a wellknown medical effect. If you eat liquorice or drink tea made on liquorice root in the morning you will probably get an effect in the afternoon. I came across this first time when I read about an Italian doctor who treated his chronic fatigue in this way. ( It can have the same side effects as from the drug ( high blood pressure etc. ) but shouldn´t cause candida in the stomach) .
 
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Strawberry

Senior Member
Messages
2,107
Location
Seattle, WA USA
@Helen Thanks! We even have liquorice tea here at work! Although I just went off my high blood pressure medicine to see if I could regain the energy that went away when I went on the medicine. So I will go back on my amlodipine next week and try the tea. So drinking a cup of tea ... say... when I get to work at 9 should keep the flu feeling at bay at 5pm?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
@Strawberry , I think that might be too long time in between, but who knows. Maybe both a cup in the morning and at lunch just as a trial as liquorice from tea probably isn´t very strong. Be careful with your blood pressure ;). Best of luck.
 

Strawberry

Senior Member
Messages
2,107
Location
Seattle, WA USA
I can even bring my BP monitor to work if it is needed. It is worth the shot to try, and I love black liquorice anyway!

edit: I can't wait to try this, my throat and flu aches are kicking in right now... :( Thank you for the info!
 

Sing

Senior Member
Messages
1,782
Location
New England
I really like licorice but it wasn't strong enough for me, in terms of its cortisol effect. It can be hard to find a doctor to test you properly and prescribe low dose cortisol. Cortef affects me in 10 or 15 mins but lasts 6 hours so it is not good to take later in the day. It is a serious medication to use with care and a doctor's oversight.
 

xrunner

Senior Member
Messages
843
Location
Surrey
All treatments I have tried to address adrenal fatigue haven't really worked for me, some even made me worse.
As for licorice I used it for years, it was good for digestion but apart from that no help from it either.

"In short, the most common reasons we are fatigued is because inflammation (IL-1, TNF) suppress orexin neurons."

I'd probably agree with that statement if I look at my own case. At the same time, the mechanisms by which the kind of inflammation we experience in ME/CFS causes fatigue may be more complex than that, I guess.
 

Strawberry

Senior Member
Messages
2,107
Location
Seattle, WA USA
I have no idea of what's considered "dangerous" levels of licorice nor the health benifits vs. dangers from it.

But, I ran across the following. I haven't had a chance to read it.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3498851/

Barb

Interesting, from the abstract: "and the tendency towards the elevation of sodium and reduction of potassium levels." My sodium levels are actually very low, and potassium very high. So even with the blood pressure risk maybe it would be good for me. I do intend to try this soon.
 

drob31

Senior Member
Messages
1,487
I'm actually experimenting with an ACE inhibitor to see if that stops the mechanism of the water retention from either high cortisol or hypothyroid.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
I think this general idea is possibly true, "Adrenal Fatigue" is a result of neuroinflammation.

However, pretending that Orexin is all there is to "adrenal fatigue" is a wronged oversimplification, we are not narcoleptics I can tell you that much.
 
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Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
How do we control orexin then?

Find the source of inflammation. In my case is leaky gut, but my personality doesn´t help with stress either.

You know, I read once this amazon review praising the SUMA root (pfaffia paniculata or hebanthe eriantha), arguing that it helps CFS because it stimulates the hypothalamus.

Its a pity they took down the raintree business these people had crazy amazonian herbs in bulk.
 
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