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7 years gone in vain.... 23andme Results help ??

zzz

Senior Member
Messages
675
Location
Oregon
P { margin-bottom: 0.21cm; }
On mineral test I showed high Na, K , Ca and Mg. I was strange for me to note all those were in very high region.

The most common cause for high K and Mg readings is serious kidney problems. This is also a major cause of high Na readings, and can be a cause of high Ca readings.

The only answer i want is " why is my body unable to detox at all?"

Possibly because your kidneys may be having major problems, which would cause all sorts of continuing toxicity effects. Getting your kidneys tested is easy, and may be very fruitful.
 
Messages
43
@caledonia

................ Ammonia and sulfur go shooting down the CBS pathway and get clogged up at SUOX, which has trouble detoxing them. This causes any methyl groups that come through CBS to get shunted into creating inflammation, instead of creating glutathione.

We see load of ammonia and sulphites there. So the further methyl groups that come still go through CBS and create even more ammonia and sulphur.

So I understand the problem being created due to further methyl groups but still we are not stopping methly groups from entering into CBS pathway like the BHMT activity could be slowed down by taking DMG(not sure of the name) I hope I am right in asking this question. I will keep me eye on this question for a long time because this enzyme activity killed almost 7 years of my life.

I found few courses being offered at edX which help you with all genomic stuff for beginners.

Thanks for the help.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia
We see load of ammonia and sulphites there. So the further methyl groups that come still go through CBS and create even more ammonia and sulphur.[/QUOTE

I don't think that's true. Yasko hypothesized that alpha keto glutarate was created and that this caused the classic stress/anxiety response, but people on this forum proved that wrong and Yasko later corrected it. I believe the mechanism is still unknown at this time. MTHFRsupport told me the bit about inflammation being created, but I don't think they knew how it was being created.

So I understand the problem being created due to further methyl groups but still we are not stopping methly groups from entering into CBS pathway like the BHMT activity could be slowed down by taking DMG(not sure of the name) I hope I am right in asking this question. I will keep me eye on this question for a long time because this enzyme activity killed almost 7 years of my life.

I don't think it's a good idea to slow down the one methylation pathway you have working well. (The BHMT pathway is the secondary backup methylation pathway.) The idea is to not take any methyl supplements until you get CBS pathway working right. This should take a couple of months. At this point you should be able to tolerate sulfur and ammonia better. Then you can start to add in methyl supplements (methylfolate, B12 etc.) and you should be able to tolerate them and get benefit from them.
 
Messages
43
@caledonia
CYP1A2 is a slow caffeine metabolizer.

CYP1B1 can lead to estrogen dominance and possibly estrogen related cancers - breast, cervical, etc. for females and prostate for males. You can eat cruciferous veggies or take DIM or IC3 if your estrogen is high. If you have problems with CBS or sulfur, then you can take calcium d glucarate.

CYP2D6 detoxifies 20% of all prescription drugs including psych drugs and beta blockers. You could have problems with these or require smaller doses.

GSTP affects glutathione.

I did order Calcium d glucarate of Source Naturals as I have problems with SUOX/CBS. I do have high estrogen. way high.

How should I go about CYP26D and GSTP?



I read roadblocks to successful Methylation pdf. I don't know how to Thank you. Honestly.
 
Messages
43
@caledonia

Questions regarding supplements usage from "Roadblocks to successful Methylation"

  1. You sugggested Potassium gluconate. I have Potassium citrate bottle already. Is it a good substitute?
  2. Similarly, I have activated charcoal. Is it good substitute to charcoal?

    I have magnesium glycinate/lysinate chelate instead of magnesium citrate . Is that ok?
  3. Are these forms of Molybdenum ,Manganese ok?
    Molybdenum (as molybdenum amino acid chelate)(http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Molybdenum-Chelated-150-mcg-100-Tablets/15298)
    Manganese (as manganese glycinate amino acid chelate†)( http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Chelated-Manganese-100-Tablets/48554)
  4. we see L-5 Methyl THF and 5 Methyl THF. Are they same?

Thanks once again Caledonia.God Bless.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,266
Location
UK
@ramkishore

If you think that you are on the autistic spectrum, as I have recently discovered for myself, you might find that the forums for parents of autistic kids to be of use, such as this one:

http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=d80b0e3ad5d041b9b09e2614f906c0e1

One thing that I have discovered which I think is being of some use, is that those on the spectrum are often deficient in thiamine b1 but it needs to be in a bioavailable form otherwise it is not absorbed very well. These mothers of autistic kids will move heaven and earth to help their kids and some of them are very knowledgeable about what helps.

ps mercury in your hair shows that you are detoxing it. What is your diet and are you on any medications?
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia
How should I go about CYP26D and GSTP?

CYP2D6 - just be careful of the meds in that pathway. If you need to take one of them, start with a smaller dose to test the waters.

GSTP - doing methylation treatment will automatically create glutathione, and should be sufficient. You could possibly supplement with glutathione directly, but some people have problems tolerating it. If you do decide to supplement with glutathione, Ben Lynch says to take NAD with it so it will make the good reduced glutathione and not the bad oxidized glutathione.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia
  1. You sugggested Potassium gluconate. I have Potassium citrate bottle already. Is it a good substitute?
  2. Similarly, I have activated charcoal. Is it good substitute to charcoal?

    I have magnesium glycinate/lysinate chelate instead of magnesium citrate . Is that ok?
  3. Are these forms of Molybdenum ,Manganese ok?
    Molybdenum (as molybdenum amino acid chelate)(http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-Gluten-Free-Molybdenum-Chelated-150-mcg-100-Tablets/15298)
    Manganese (as manganese glycinate amino acid chelate†)( http://www.iherb.com/Solgar-Chelated-Manganese-100-Tablets/48554)
  4. we see L-5 Methyl THF and 5 Methyl THF. Are they same?

I think all of those supps would ok. L-5 Methyl THF and 5 Methyl THF are the same. Heartfixer suggests 75mcg for molydenum, so that would be 1/2 of a pill.
 
Messages
43
@brenda

@ramkishore

If you think that you are on the autistic spectrum, as I have recently discovered for myself, you might find that the forums for parents of autistic kids to be of use, such as this one:

http://www.autismweb.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=d80b0e3ad5d041b9b09e2614f906c0e1

One thing that I have discovered which I think is being of some use, is that those on the spectrum are often deficient in thiamine b1 but it needs to be in a bioavailable form otherwise it is not absorbed very well. These mothers of autistic kids will move heaven and earth to help their kids and some of them are very knowledgeable about what helps.

ps mercury in your hair shows that you are detoxing it. What is your diet and are you on any medications?


Many thanks Brenda. supplement ordered. Really helpful pointer.
Thanks once again.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
Yeah Im trying to find published Research though for methylation on cfs based on genetic testing. So if you know some other well published researchers that would be really helpful for the search. Thanks!

As ME/CFS research isnt well funded, I dont know if there has been any studies at all done with us and based on methylation issues found based on gene testing.

You could try to do a search at pubmed (it has all the medical studies published there).
 
Messages
43
@caledonia

it took quite a time to order these supplements to india and finally after 1 week at customs, they are here at my desk and i have to start taking them according to genetic mutation.

Now Foods, GABA, 500 mg, 100 Capsules

Doctor's Best, Best L-Carnitine Fumarate, 855 mg, 60 Veggie Caps

Source Naturals, Pantothenic Acid, 100 mg, 250 Tablets

Solgar, Vitamin B2, 50 mg, 100 Tablets

Jarrow Formulas, Liquid Carnitine, Lemon-Lime Flavor, 16 fl oz (475 ml)

Now Foods, Potassium Gluconate, 100% Pure Powder, 1 lb (454 g)

Solgar, Folate As Metafolin, 800 mcg, 100 Tablets


Doctor's Best, Best D-Ribose, 850 mg, 120 Veggie Caps

Now Foods, Magnesium Citrate, 120 Vcaps

Now Foods, Beta Carotene, 25,000 IU, 250 Softgels

Country Life, Gluten Free, Molybdenum, Chelated, 150 mcg, 100 Tablets

Now Foods, Yucca, 500 mg, 100 Capsules

Anabol Naturals, Dibencoplex 10,000, 30 Sublingual Tablets

Enzymatic Therapy, B12 Infusion, Energy, 30 Chewable Tablets

Nature's Way, Niacin, 100 mg, 100 Capsules

Benfotiamine Inc., Benfotiamine-V, 150 mg, 120 Veggie Caps

NutraMedix, Sparga, Sulphur Detox, 1 fl oz (30 ml)

Solgar, Chelated Manganese, 100 Tablets

Jarrow Formulas, Yaeyama Chlorella, 3.5 oz (100 g) Powder



I am going according to the rules laid by @caledonia in the document 18 Roadblocks to methylation.


Step 1 is to remove ammonia and sulphates from the body.

how often do i take charcoal to remove ammonia?

To handle sulphates i will take molubdenum after breakfast the dose of 75ug. hope that is fine?

Secondly the sulpha detox product:

www.iherb.com/NutraMedix-Sparga-Sulphur-Detox-1-fl-oz-30-ml/55337

when should I take this?


And how long should i do this ammonia and sulphur treatment?

warm Regards
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia

I am going according to the rules laid by @caledonia in the document 18 Roadblocks to methylation.

Step 1 is to remove ammonia and sulphates from the body.

how often do i take charcoal to remove ammonia?

To handle sulphates i will take molubdenum after breakfast the dose of 75ug. hope that is fine?

Secondly the sulpha detox product:

www.iherb.com/NutraMedix-Sparga-Sulphur-Detox-1-fl-oz-30-ml/55337

when should I take this?

And how long should i do this ammonia and sulphur treatment?

warm Regards

I went back and reviewed your posts. Is getting stool testing is impossible for India?

As far as ammonia and sulfur. You can use the sulfate strips linked in my signature to see how much sulfur you have. As you do treatment, the sulfur levels should go down. When they're under 800, then you're done. I've heard estimates of 4-8 weeks. It took me 12 weeks.

I haven't heard of any specific time of day to take molydenum. The dose is ok.

I'm not familiar with the sulfa detox product.
 
Messages
43
I went back and reviewed your posts. Is getting stool testing is impossible for India?

As far as ammonia and sulfur. You can use the sulfate strips linked in my signature to see how much sulfur you have. As you do treatment, the sulfur levels should go down. When they're under 800, then you're done. I've heard estimates of 4-8 weeks. It took me 12 weeks.

I haven't heard of any specific time of day to take molydenum. The dose is ok.

I'm not familiar with the sulfa detox product.

Very good to read your post again.

So far I tried in many hospitals with no luck at all. Docs never heard of those stool tests. I will keep trying.

I am sure I will reach those sulphur levels way soon. Its already 2 weeks gone I used those molybdenum tabs.

I will update you with the results.

Thanks once again for time taken Caledonia.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Very good to read your post again.

So far I tried in many hospitals with no luck at all. Docs never heard of those stool tests. I will keep trying.

I am sure I will reach those sulphur levels way soon. Its already 2 weeks gone I used those molybdenum tabs.

I will update you with the results.

Thanks once again for time taken Caledonia.

A hospital or regular type of doctor is not likely to know what those tests are. You need to find an alternative or holistic type of practitioner, either a naturopath or functional medicine doctor.
 
Messages
43
I went back and reviewed your posts. Is getting stool testing is impossible for India?

As far as ammonia and sulfur. You can use the sulfate strips linked in my signature to see how much sulfur you have. As you do treatment, the sulfur levels should go down. When they're under 800, then you're done. I've heard estimates of 4-8 weeks. It took me 12 weeks.

I haven't heard of any specific time of day to take molydenum. The dose is ok.

I'm not familiar with the sulfa detox product.

@caledonia

I ordered the strips as you said.
After 3 weeks I was able to manage to get my sulphate strips show reading of >400 and less than 800.

So the next step would be to go testing ammonia levels?
which test to take? any home test strips can be done?

Thanks in advance.
Still a long road ahead for me.
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia

I ordered the strips as you said.
After 3 weeks I was able to manage to get my sulphate strips show reading of >400 and less than 800.

So the next step would be to go testing ammonia levels?
which test to take? any home test strips can be done?

Thanks in advance.
Still a long road ahead for me.

The only way to do ammonia is with a blood test. I don't know if it's something a regular doc can do. It is part of the Nutreval test, which is very comprehensive, but expensive - but good to do if you can manage it.

If you've done the full CBS protocol, your ammonia should be out too, I think.

Heartfixer says to continue on the CBS supps for another month. In the meantime, you can start to introduce supps for MTHFR and MTR/MTRR, i.e. methylfolate and B12.

See the link to the Heartfixer in my signature below for complete information about the CBS protocol.
 
Messages
43
@caledonia

Hi Caledonia and others. How are you doing?

My Update:

I stopped taking protein for quite some time.

Test Results:

Ammonia 8.2 micro mol/L 11.0 - 32.0
Sample :Blood EDTA
Method : van Anken and Schiphors

* Folic Acid 13.01 ng/ml 3.00 - 17.00
Sample :Serum
Method : CLIA
* Vitamin B12 624 pg/ml 211.00 - 911.00
Sample :Serum
Method : CLIA

Before going ahead with b9 and b12 i got this tests. they are ok according to the results.

Do I still need to take b9 and b12?

Anyways I started taking them since last 4 days. On the fifth day, my left hand started shaking involuntarily. I was scared for a moment. I will post this question on the main forum too.

Regards
 

caledonia

Senior Member
@caledonia

Hi Caledonia and others. How are you doing?

My Update:

I stopped taking protein for quite some time.

Test Results:

Ammonia 8.2 micro mol/L 11.0 - 32.0
Sample :Blood EDTA
Method : van Anken and Schiphors

* Folic Acid 13.01 ng/ml 3.00 - 17.00
Sample :Serum
Method : CLIA
* Vitamin B12 624 pg/ml 211.00 - 911.00
Sample :Serum
Method : CLIA

Before going ahead with b9 and b12 i got this tests. they are ok according to the results.

Do I still need to take b9 and b12?

Anyways I started taking them since last 4 days. On the fifth day, my left hand started shaking involuntarily. I was scared for a moment. I will post this question on the main forum too.

Regards
The serum B12 test is more or less useless. If it's low you're deficient, but if you're normal like yourself (and me) or even high, you can still be deficient.

The same is true of a serum folic acid test. Mine was normal, but my folic acid RBC was low. RBC = red blood cells

The important thing is what is getting into the cells and not what's floating around in the bloodstream. You have to do the right tests.

As for your shaking hand - possibly low potassium? That can come on rapidly depending on how high the dose of supplements is. Low magnesium is another possibility. (or both) A deficiency in those can cause muscle twitching/spasms/cramps.

Did you discontinue the supplements and did the shaking go away?

How many mcg of methylfolate and B12 were you taking?
 
Messages
43
The serum B12 test is more or less useless. If it's low you're deficient, but if you're normal like yourself (and me) or even high, you can still be deficient.

The same is true of a serum folic acid test. Mine was normal, but my folic acid RBC was low. RBC = red blood cells

The important thing is what is getting into the cells and not what's floating around in the bloodstream. You have to do the right tests.

As for your shaking hand - possibly low potassium? That can come on rapidly depending on how high the dose of supplements is. Low magnesium is another possibility. (or both) A deficiency in those can cause muscle twitching/spasms/cramps.

Did you discontinue the supplements and did the shaking go away?

How many mcg of methylfolate and B12 were you taking?

Ok I will do folic acid RBC now.

I do have mercury fillings.
I am taking 1mg of mb12 jarrow brand and 400ug methylfolate of solgar brand.
I am continuing this supplements and the shaking did not return so far but I do feel completely different in the body.

I will start with potassium and magnesium and let you know.

when should I add acetly-carnitine and d-ribose?
How should I dose up mb12 and metlhylfolate?

I feel very fatigued while taking these supplements.


Thanks in advance
 

caledonia

Senior Member
Ok I will do folic acid RBC now.

I do have mercury fillings.
I am taking 1mg of mb12 jarrow brand and 400ug methylfolate of solgar brand.
I am continuing this supplements and the shaking did not return so far but I do feel completely different in the body.

I will start with potassium and magnesium and let you know.

when should I add acetly-carnitine and d-ribose?
How should I dose up mb12 and metlhylfolate?

I feel very fatigued while taking these supplements.


Thanks in advance

The mercury can make you feel worse as it's coming out. My symptoms are extra tired and flu like aches. I could see the hand shaking being caused by this too. Mercury can cause neurological symptoms.

What I did was cut back to extremely small doses so I didn't feel bad while the mercury was detoxifying. The doses you're taking are high. Those are final doses, not starting doses.

See my document Start Low and Go Slow for ideas on how to cut the pills down. There is one other method, I haven't put in the document yet, called the Wet Toothpick Method. Crush the pill into powder, dip the end of a wet toothpick in it, and just pick up a little bit.

It would be best if the mercury fillings came out and were replaced with something non toxic. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this, as you can get dosed with even more mercury when they're taken out. You want to minimize your exposure. If you decide to get them taken out, do your research.

I think it would be ok (and even preferable) to continue with methylation, and then gradually over time, get your mercury fillings out. Then once they're finally out, it may be another 6 months before all the mercury comes out of your fat stores. You may need to keep your supplementation extremely low while all this is going on so you don't feel too bad.

I wouldn't add acetyl L carnitine, etc. until you get the folate, B12, and magnesium and potassium levels all worked out.