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Constant sinus / throat / lung irritation

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
ANY particulate matter - pollution, dust, pollen, mold spores, etc - irritate my sinuses, throat, and lung... I get headaches, joint pain, body aches and the dreaded brain fog.. I had comprehensive allergy tests and they all came up negative.. My allergist said that any particles irritate my sinuses, etc.; it's not an allergic reaction, per se. I know allergy testing is not nearly perfect, but I still think she's right.

The air quality where I live is not terrible... If the air quality report for PM2.5 on the high end of "GREEN" then I feel the side effects, and if it's "YELLOW" then I'm completely miserable...

I've tried everything (steroids, supplements, Chinese herbs) and I'm at my wits end... I could move to someplace with zero pollution, but then I'd have no place to work and no friends because I'd be living outside civilization! Plus, there's no guarantee that my new zero pollution home would remain zero pollution.

Has anyone had this problem? Have you found anything that works?

thanks!!

ps I'm having the nutreval test this week - hopefully the results will help
 

optimist

Senior Member
Messages
434
Location
Norway
Yes, my sinuses and trhoat used to be constantly irritated for a year and a half or two. Now a days it is on and off. It is sort of a mystery, but stress and food that I don't tolerate well seems to be triggers. After I learned to calm down and eat properly, it has become better.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Yes, my sinuses and trhoat used to be constantly irritated for a year and a half or two. Now a days it is on and off. It is sort of a mystery, but stress and food that I don't tolerate well seems to be triggers. After I learned to calm down and eat properly, it has become better.

@optimist - what changes did you make in your diet?
 

Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Sometimes its not allergens directly but irritated nerves which react more acutely to allergens as another side effect. I get these intense sneezing fits some days from treating an infection in my CNS, its like something is just agitating the nerves and I go nuts lol. Everytime I kill a bunch of stuff off this always happens. Try Neuro Protek this will help with the reaction and shuts down the H1, H2 receptors responsible for histamine response. It's also "neuro protective" as the name states.

http://www.algonot.com/neuroprotek.php

like optimist mentioned diet changes, ie. removing gluten, wheat, soy, cow dairy and other common allergens from diet can also help, also taking digestive enzymes of some sort with meals. Low stomach acid can cause foods to ferment in the stomach because of a lack of break down. High protein meals can cause an allergen response while the body is trying to break the rest down too slowly. A paleo style diet usually works very well as a start template. Use goat dairy instead of cow as well its a great source of nutrients, most people who cut out dairy completely get low calcium levels. Goats dairy is actually anti inflammatory. The high glutamine content helps to heal tissue and restorative functioning of the digestion system.
 
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ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@ebethc I know mast cells has come up in your threads before. I haven't found anything w/ exactly your symptoms, but here's an interesting article, you might find something useful...Looks like @Martial is thinking along the same lines. As I was typing he's just posted re Neuroprotek, developed by mastcellmaster Dr theoharides. I looked at his site, mastcellmaster.com for articles, but didn't see anything directly related to your symptoms. Neuroprotek has been wonderful for me.

http://geneticgenie.org/blog/2013/0...-chronic-illness-and-its-role-in-methylation/
 

CFS_for_19_years

Hoarder of biscuits
Messages
2,396
Location
USA
Recommended by allergists and ENT docs:

www.amazon.com/Neilmed-Sinus-Rinse-Starter-packets/dp/B000RJGB5C

Based on the "Neti pot," you can physically rinse particles out of your nasal passages with a saline solution. (Don't use plain water as that will only make your nose worse!)

I've used this a lot.

ETA: The Neilmed kits come with packets of premeasured buffered salt, to be added to your own distilled water.
 
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Martial

Senior Member
Messages
1,409
Location
Ventura, CA
Recommended by allergists and ENT docs:

www.amazon.com/Neilmed-Sinus-Rinse-Starter-packets/dp/B000RJGB5C

Based on the "Neti pot," you can physically rinse particles out of your nasal passages with a saline solution. (Don't use plain water as that will only make your nose worse!)

I've used this a lot.

You have to use distilled water if not a saline solution. Using regular water can cause a deadly brain amoeba infection, just thought that was very important to add!
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
You have to use distilled water if not a saline solution. Using regular water can cause a deadly brain amoeba infection, just thought that was very important to add!
@Martial @CFS_for_19_years

I use a Neti pot, usually w Saline solution that I get at walgreens w Rx.. Sometimes I add a steriod solution to bring down swelling, but I try to avoid it and just use the saline..

@Martial - yikes.. thanks for the heads up re the tap water! I don't use tap water, but it's good to know that I shouldn't use it as a backup
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
Sometimes its not allergens directly but irritated nerves which react more acutely to allergens as another side effect.

@Martial - yes, I think that this is what my allergist was getting at.. Good to get a patient's feedback as validation...

Try Neuro Protek this will help with the reaction and shuts down the H1, H2 receptors responsible for histamine response. It's also "neuro protective" as the name states.

I have this, and, unfortunately, have not noticed a big difference.... Quercetin and Pycnogenol and Mangosteen seem to help (approx ~30 - 50% improvement, which I'll take..)... Do these supplements indicate any particular histamine pathway? e.g., H1 vs H2... Benadryl doesn't really do anything for me, which I believe indicates no H1 prob..

I've been eating a good diet then fell off the wagon in the past few weeks after a really bad setback.. I had a GREAT september due to diet & new protocol (diet = mostly gluten-free vegan w ~60 grams of animal protein per day, like chicken or lean meat or fish and supplement protocol below link). I was focused and energized mentally, had physical energy and felt like a normal person! In October I had a massive setback and felt major inflammation & brain fog & fatigue... I thought it was a bad reaction to arginine (I have the EBV virus w high titers), but who knows.... I've stopped taking the protocol and feel like i'm back at square one... taking nutreval tomorrow, so hopefully that will help. I think that nitric oxide may be helpful, so I'm trying to figure out the best way to raise it... I think that the arginine did this, and that's why I was feeling to so good in September... It stimulates baroreceptors and release of norepinephrine, which makes for a more focused brain... Maybe I just got too much Norepiphrine then crashed??? I just don't know, I'm very hopeless and negative at this point.

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...eaction-cracks-in-the-side-of-my-mouth.33021/


ps thanks for answering all my questions, and sorry if they are redundant! I'm super spaced out, confused and overwhelmed after getting my hopes up in September then crashing in October...
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@ebethc I returned to this thread to add that my cluster of mast cell symptoms might be atypical. I've had to search them out individually. It might be similar for you...For me, tiny ulcerations in my ears, nose, blister-like flare on eyelid, blood blisters in mouth, urinary urgency. These things all come and go. This is definitely related to the state of my adrenals. Additionally, I think my skin blotchiness is probably fairly typical. I've found coffee enemas for clearing enemas helps me relieve these symptoms.

I find my mind keeps returning to your symptoms and their non-allergic basis, wanting to make sense of them...:rolleyes:

I see that you get a + response to Quercetin, mangosteen. Royal jelly is, I believe, more specifically useful for mast cell than histamine. Also, I get fantastic anti-histamine effects, almost immediately, from rutin....I hope going off your protocol doesn't mean you've resumed gluten...probably not a good thing. And there are also gluten cross-reactive foods:aghhh: (sorry...)

Some links...

http://www.histamine-intolerance.in...-Mast-Cell-Activation-cascade-of-symptoms.pdf Mast cells/histamines diagram

‪Mastocytosis with Theoharis C. Theoharides, MS, PhD, MD, FAA‬
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CplxXGpFeKQ

http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Mast_cell

Mast cell precursor cells migrate from bone barrow through the bloodstream to tissue and organ sites to eventually become mast cells. Mast cells are found abundantly in the skin, gastrointestinal and genitourinary (reproductive and urinary) tracts, but can also be found in clusters next to small blood vessels and in loose connective tissue.Mast cells might behave in different ways depending on where they end up in the body, and the cells adapt to whatever situation they find themselves. In healthy individuals, mast cells also die off regularly (this is known as apoptosis) after a set amount of time, allowing new mast cells to replace them.

Mast cells are large, oval cells with coarse granules containing various substances densely packed into the cytoplasm, but can also be spindle-shaped. You might think of the mast cell like a very thin, sometimes leaky, water balloon, packed full of even smaller balloons that contain various potent substances.

On the surface (membrane) of the mast cell are receptors (called IgE-receptors), like tiny keyholes waiting for a Y-shaped key in order to unlock the cell. Mast cells sometimes have c-Kit receptors on their surface, for the stem cell factor (SCF, c-Kit ligand) and a bone marrow biopsy, if carried out correctly, can show if your mast cells have this receptor. This is interesting if you have Mastocytosis because it can suggest treatment options.

The major function of mast cells is to protect the body from intruders (including allergens and parasites) by way of immediate hypersensitive reaction (the http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Allergic_cascade) - when mast cells perceive a threat, the cell disintegrates like a tiny bomb of chemicals.

The chemicals released result in a near-instant chain reaction, which might mean an itchy nose if only a few cells disintegrate, to asthma or hives, right the way through to anaphylactic shock (http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Anaphylaxis?action=edit&redlink=1) if there is an over-reaction and mass disintegration of mast cells. Mast cells are what makes a wound itch as it is healing, and some people with Mastocytosis report that, at times, they heal extraordinarily quickly.

No-one with too few mast cells has been found, suggesting they are essential to life.

....In allergic reactions, mast cells remain inactive until an http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Allergen?action=edit&redlink=1 binds to IgE already in association with the cell (see above). Other membrane activation events can either prime mast cells for subsequent degranulation or can act in synergy with FceRI signal transduction.http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Mast_cell#cite_note-pmid18463655-3 Allergens are generally http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Protein?action=edit&redlink=1 or http://mastocytosis.wikia.com/wiki/Polysaccharide?action=edit&redlink=1.

Autoimmunity Mast cells are implicated in the pathology associated with the autoimmune disorders rheumatoid arthritis, bullous pemphigoid, and multiple sclerosis. They have been shown to be involved in the recruitment of inflammatory cells to the joints (e.g. rheumatoid arthritis) and skin (e.g. bullous pemphigoid) and this activity is dependent on antibodies and complement components.

http://algonot.com/articles/publications/pdf/stressmastcells.pdf THEOHARIS C. THEOHARIDES, PHD, MD 2012
...
recognizing the involvement of mast cells and regulating their secretion may be more important than simply ad-
dressing the effects of individual mediators.

...The mast cell has been considered an immune gate to the brain, as well as a sensor of environmental and emotional stress. It has also been linked to many neuropathological processes. This versatile role of mast cells compels a more appropriate name to indicate its polydimensional potential, perhaps “pleiotropocyte” (Greek multifaceted cell).
 

SOC

Senior Member
Messages
7,849
@ebethc, for me going dairy-free was a big help with those kinds of symptoms. I've also gone largely gluten-free, although for me that doesn't seem to have had a large impact on sinus/throat/lung irritation.
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@ebethc, for me going dairy-free was a big help with those kinds of symptoms. I've also gone largely gluten-free, although for me that doesn't seem to have had a large impact on sinus/throat/lung irritation.

@SOC - thanks, I'm getting back on the program... I just don't understand how I could feel so good, eat right, take a supplement protocol that makes sense and still crash in October... So much time lost and I just don't know where I go from here... I'm taking Nutreval tomorrow, though
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
@ebethc I returned to this thread to add that my cluster of mast cell symptoms might be atypical. I've had to search them out individually. It might be similar for you...‪

@ahmo - Okay, but how do I do this? I have read that H1 responds to Zyrtec/Benadryl, but this doesn't work for me. I've read that Zantac alleviates symptoms for H2.. Are there other H's? How do I try to narrow it down to find the culprit?

@ebethc I've found coffee enemas for clearing enemas helps me relieve these symptoms. ‪

Colonics can help sometimes, but, overall, I haven't found them to be helpful (including coffee enemas).

@ebethc Royal jelly is, I believe, more specifically useful for mast cell than histamine.

what's the dose for Royal Jelly? How often?

@ebethc I get fantastic anti-histamine effects, almost immediately, from rutin....

I've taken neuro-protek, and haven't noticed a big difference vs quercetin or pycnogenol or mangosteen.. Not worth the money for me personally


thanks!
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@ebethc Re searching, I meant something like, "throat irritation + mast cell"; "joint pain + mast cell"...Just to see if this is the path for you to pursue. It might not be...

I'm taking 1x Paradise royal jelly 500mg 1-2x/day. Some days I don't need any; other days I need AM/PM. I dose according to my symptoms and use self-testing.

Your non-response to colonics, coffee enemas might indicate that whatever's going on, it's not resulting from adrenal stress. There's a strong relationship betw adrenals and mast cells. Beyond this, I'm out of bright ideas.:whistle::balloons:

And what do I do for adrenals? Primarily coffee enemas. I haven't found a better way to de-stress them.
 

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
ADD...well, one more thing in my experience, though maybe very tangential. I'm linking a questionnaire for pyroluria. I had a progression of sinusitis to bronchitis to asthma many years ago. Turns out that's not unusual w/ pyroluria, as are joint pains....

http://www.hputest.nl/evraag.htm Online questionnaire to suspect pyroluria
 
Messages
34
Location
Alexandria, VA, USA
@ebethc when you say irritation what exactly are the sensations? Itchy, scratchy, having to constantly clear your throat?

Here is a comprehensive guide to mast cell disorders published recently by one of the leading researchers, Dr. Afrin. You'll have to scroll to the bottom to download the chapter in his book:

https://www.novapublishers.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=42603

He has also given talks about how patients can present with completely different symptoms, so just because your symptoms aren't "classic" MCAS does not rule out a mast cell problem.

Here are some of his slides in a presentation talking about all the ridiculous ways people present with MCAS.

http://www.mastocytosis.ca/2011 MSC Medical Lecture with Slides.pdf

I'm not by any means suggesting you have it, but it is something to consider.
 

Research 1st

Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.
Messages
768
There's an infection that can cause respiratory problems associated to Molds, Aspergillus.

If people have undiagnosed immune suppression (arguably what ME CFS incorporates) it wouldn't be beyond possibility for patients to pick up relatively rare conditions, such as Aspergillus.

Some CFS related reading:

http://www.selbsthilfe-baklayan.com/Aspergillus-ChronicFatigue.htm
http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/dr-joseph-brewer-and-mycotoxins-update.html
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...spergillus-niger-niger-candida-albicans.8237/
http://cfswarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/mold-report.html
 

ebethc

Senior Member
Messages
1,901
There's an infection that can cause respiratory problems associated to Molds, Aspergillus.

If people have undiagnosed immune suppression (arguably what ME CFS incorporates) it wouldn't be beyond possibility for patients to pick up relatively rare conditions, such as Aspergillus.

Some CFS related reading:

http://www.selbsthilfe-baklayan.com/Aspergillus-ChronicFatigue.htm
http://cfspatientadvocate.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/dr-joseph-brewer-and-mycotoxins-update.html
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...spergillus-niger-niger-candida-albicans.8237/
http://cfswarrior.blogspot.co.uk/2008/11/mold-report.html

@Research 1st - I tested negative for mold allergies ..(both blood & scratch). I know that allergy testing is not perfect, but I was very surprised that the tests came back negative.. My allergist said that any particulate matter (mold spores, pollen, dust, pollution..) irritate my sinuses/throat/lungs... Since it's not an allergy, per se, allergy meds don't work. I'll read through the info anyway, so thanks for sending it along!