Something different: Apparent real recoveries from Toby Morrison's CFS Health Centre in Australia

[heapsreal]

I guess the term recovery has a lot of us scratching our heads but I guess someone new to the illness would be attracted to something like this and not skeptical?

If I wrote a book 'cfsme I can improve you 15%' it's just not going to attract people. Reminds me of 'fatigue to fantastic' , it's just too good to be true. But one can always find something among these sensational claims that's helpful.

I don't doubt there are sufferers out there who have got themselves better but we are all different with different resources, circumstances mixed with some good luck too.

 

[ukxmrv]

I've seen this webpage before and the message is the same as other people who claim to have CFS, "recovered" and then gone on to try and make a living or gain attention by treating others with the disease.

Absolutely, not a shred of proof and using methods that many thousands have tried before, failed or got worse on.

Read the smallprint

"FS health centre and Toby Morrison are not responsible for your own health. This site is designed to give you the tools and education to help you, help yourself to a better quality of life and daily function. Please read carefully the points below 1. CFS Health Centre and its websites are not giving medical advice. 2. The online recovery program is not a program of medical treatment. 3. If you have medical concerns, you should see your own medical practitioner. 4. If at any time you consider your condition to be worsening, do seek medical advice straight away. No liability is accepted for loss or damage. No responsibility is taken for loss or damage."

 

[SOC]

What bothers me as much as anything about this is that a (supposed) PWME would try to get rich off fellow patients, the vast majority of whom are already struggling medically, socially, and certainly financially.

We should not, at this point in time, be seen as a potential market but as a desperate group in need of help and support -- especially by a fellow patient. If there's a magic cure, especially one that doesn't require years of expensive training to understand and administer, or expensive research that has to be paid for, then share it, don't hoard it so you can get rich off the desperate.

 

[Art Vandelay]

What is the cost he chargers for this cure?

One person on Facebook mentioned that he quoted her in excess of $600.

 

[jeff_w]

I know a lot of people here are really focused on little details like specific nutrient levels, symptoms and medications and are still looking for that magic cure. But personally that approach never really got me anywhere and I still haven't seen a solid example of it working for anyone.

Legitimate symptoms and medications backed by research aren't exactly "little details."

You say these "little details" approaches never worked for you. I understand the frustration of trying approaches that don't work. What have you tried so far?

This guy sounds dangerous. I doubt you have ever been to a specialist. Consider seeing one, if you are able.

 

[Quokka]

One person on Facebook mentioned that he quoted her in excess of $600.

I read a blog article (that I can no longer find) that stated she paid $500 for the online course.

I wanted to ring the CFS health centre to inquire about prices and discovered that the only contact information is by email. No business address, no telephone number, no listings in our local telephone directory for CFS health centre. What legitimate business would cut themselves off from potential customers like that?

At a certain point, one must say "If it looks like snake oil, smells like snake oil and quacks like snake oil, then it probably is snake oil".

@Art Vandelay can you point us to some of the negative reviews you found? My google-fu doesn't seem strong enough to find them and I'd love to see what they say.

 

[Undisclosed]

I read a blog article (that I can no longer find) that stated she paid $500 for the online course.

I wanted to ring the CFS health centre to inquire about prices and discovered that the only contact information is by email. No business address, no telephone number, no listings in our local telephone directory for CFS health centre. What legitimate business would cut themselves off from potential customers like that?

At a certain point, one must say "If it looks like snake oil, smells like snake oil and quacks like snake oil, then it probably is snake oil".

@Art Vandelay can you point us to some of the negative reviews you found? My google-fu doesn't seem strong enough to find them and I'd love to see what they say.

@Quokka

I think his phone number is on this webpage --

http://www.trybooking.com/Booking/BookingEventSummary.aspx?eid=50565

He seems to have been offering a seminar and added his phone # beside his email address.

 

[Art Vandelay]

I read a blog article (that I can no longer find) that stated she paid $500 for the online course.

I wanted to ring the CFS health centre to inquire about prices and discovered that the only contact information is by email. No business address, no telephone number, no listings in our local telephone directory for CFS health centre. What legitimate business would cut themselves off from potential customers like that?

At a certain point, one must say "If it looks like snake oil, smells like snake oil and quacks like snake oil, then it probably is snake oil".

@Art Vandelay can you point us to some of the negative reviews you found? My google-fu doesn't seem strong enough to find them and I'd love to see what they say.

From memory, many of the ones I came across were on a Facebook group for the Victorian(?) ME/CFS Society. I think the group might be private so that might explain the lack of google hits!

 

[alex3619]

A good ebook on managing various things should not be more than about $20, and arguably not more than $10. So what are people getting for the extra $580 if the $600 cited is accurate?

 

[A.B.]

A good ebook on managing various things should not be more than about $20, and arguably not more than $10. So what are people getting for the extra $580 if the $600 cited is accurate?

A lot of post-purchase rationalization? That would explain some of the very positive reviews (and I think this is why Lightning Process also gets good reviews). Wikipedia says

Post-purchase rationalization, also known as Buyer's Stockholm Syndrome, is a cognitive bias whereby someone who has purchased an expensive product or service overlooks any faults or defects in order to justify their purchase. It is a special case of choice-supportive bias.

Expensive purchases often involve a lot of careful research and deliberation, and many consumers will often refuse to admit that their decision was made in poor judgment. Many purchasing decisions are made emotionally, based on factors such as brand-loyalty and advertising, and so are often rationalized retrospectively in an attempt to justify the choice.

There are also in-person sessions being offered. I'm wondering what those cost.

 

[taniaaust1]

I read a blog article (that I can no longer find) that stated she paid $500 for the online course.

I wanted to ring the CFS health centre to inquire about prices and discovered that the only contact information is by email. No business address, no telephone number, no listings in our local telephone directory for CFS health centre. What legitimate business would cut themselves off from potential customers like that?

No telephone numbers, that dont surprise me, I guess he dont want anyone ringing and abusing him due to trying his advice and being made a lot worst from it.

This guy sounds like he should be reported

 

[KENNY-SILVERS]

I've been doing some CFS research this past week and I found this forum which has been a huge comfort to find other people going through the same thing as me. But I found something else too, that has given me the first real hope I've had in a long time so I just had to share it here.

I have a feeling it's not quite what people around here are looking for so it may not be well received, but considering how much I wish I found it years ago, I thought I'd share it anyway, just in case it helps someone.

There is a guy in Australia named Toby Morrison who recovered from CFS and started a health center specifically to help other people recover too. They have many testimonials, including video ones.

He has a different approach than the other treatment threads around here but I hope some people could be open to it. I think it's a more realistic and self-empowering approach. Instead of looking for a magic pill or supplement combination it's a holistic method of getting to the root of health and recovery, including the mental component. I've never heard of anyone actually recovering from some combination of pills or strange treatment. And I know personally the biggest recovery periods I've had have been following along the lines of what he is talking about. I do think the body has the capacity to heal itself if we give it the opportunity.

An intro video about him: http://www.cfshealth.com/about-toby-morrison/
His story: http://tobymorrisonhealth.com/about/

His other videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/TobyTVCFS/videos

I know a lot of people here are really focused on little details like specific nutrient levels, symptoms and medications and are still looking for that magic cure. But personally that approach never really got me anywhere and I still haven't seen a solid example of it working for anyone.

For some reason I'm expecting negative replies from people who are not looking for this kind of approach, but I just have to post this anyway in case it inspires or helps someone else too.

Almost all of those are distributors of false hope . If they recovered from Chronic Fatigue . It would be impossible for them to have Chronic Fatigue Syndrome . Possibly Temporary Fatigue Syndrome . I'm not trying to rain on a parade . Why bother ? Just drink some Oxyclean. It
will fight the free radicals to the final death . LOOK!

 

[Sharon1402]

From the comments on here it looks as though non of you are actually doing Toby's program?
I signed up to the online program a few months ago I'm in the UK and it cos about £250 which gives you access for life to all the material.
The program is a good, honest structured way to focus on your recovery. It's not based on GET although there are exercises and stretches in it you can do at your own pace and level if you are able. There is advice on nutrition and mindset which are informative and helpful and encouraging. The program covers all aspects you need to recover holistically and healthily.
Toby himself is a genuine, honest, realistic and encouraging guy. Everyone who does his program loves him and his attitude and approach. He does not profess to have an overnight miracle cure like some therapies do. In many ways the program is similar to that offered by the NHS ME/CFS clinics if you have one in your area. Luckily I do and Toby's program complements the treatment received from that. Many however do not have a clinic, any guidance or anywhere to turn in their recovery. Toby provides this in bucket loads!
Please don't knock something until you've tried it. He is a great inspiration to many and supports and believes in all his clients and the work he is doing to help them. Long may he continue to encourage and inspire others in an illness where many are simply abandoned

 

[Emily.Grace]

There are so many parts to this thread that I could spend hours rebutting, and so much of it seems to be based off a quick scan of information that seems very unreliable, but I don't think it's worth it. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and if they choose to make it a negative opinion on what is a wonderful man and wonderful program then so be it.

I will mention in regards to contacting anyone in the CFS Health Centre it is very clear, they give you an email address to send any enquiries to and they also have an interest form you can fill out in regards to the online program in which one of the lovely staff members will get in contact with you. They do not have a phone number as they don't have a receptionist, and as its a worldwide offered program it is unreasonable to expect people to make overseas calls when its not even guaranteed someone will be there to answer. Once you are in the program you have contact with Toby and the two other healths coaches (who have both been back to study after getting healthy and studied exercise therapy or have other qualifications that show in their knowledge of the subject) through facebook and email, also having the ability to directly comment on any of the weekly videos allows close contact and wonderful support from the whole team. This is not a scam, its not an overnight cure, and certainly no one ever provides misleading information or promises of a cure. Its a program to help you improve your life, you join a group who are like minded and are all going through something similar, much like this page except without all the negativity. Our illness does not define us and it should not create such a negative view of the world and everyone in it that is trying to make a difference.

 

[KENNY-SILVERS]

One person on Facebook mentioned that he quoted her in excess of $600.

From memory, many of the ones I came across were on a Facebook group for the Victorian(?) ME/CFS Society. I think the group might be private so that might explain the lack of google hits!

That's a great user name . Kenny Rogers Roaster Chicken is not only addictive . But also cures CFS .
Jerry was thought to becoming CFS when he began acting depressed around the Asian Lady . Why pay
all that money on pointless worthless when you can just go to Kenny Rogers . You can even drive backwards
through the drive through

 

[Art Vandelay]

That's a great user name . Kenny Rogers Roaster Chicken is not only addictive . But also cures CFS .

Heh, my friend Bob Sacamano sells cures for CFS down at Battery Park

 

[Revel]

@Sharon1402 Toby Morrison aside, I'm still reeling from the fact that you found your NHS CFS Clinic helpful!

My GP looked into the track record of our nearest one and found it to be so dreadfully poor that he felt it would be a waste of my precious energy attending. The 2 hour round trip alone would have sent me into a tailspin from the sensory overload of moving traffic. All so I could discuss with an occupational therapist how best to manage my condition. Hmm. . .

With regard to Toby Morrison, I am unclear what you are getting for your money.

If the nutritional information isn't tailored to your individual needs (via blood tests, medical examination, etc) what makes it so different from the free information available online? Likewise, the exercises.

As for 'mindset', probably the best coping tool in my armoury has been the practice of mindfulness. I downloaded the methodology and exercises, some for pennies, others for free.

Eating well, keeping yourself as physically active as your condition allows and cultivating a positive mental attitude is nothing more than common sense (works for "normal" people too!).

Bear in mind that, being 16 at illness onset, Toby was already statistically more likely to improve over time, regardless of his "journey of discovery". That said, if anyone feels better for following his guidelines then I am sincerely glad for you.

However, based on the information presented so far, there is "nothing new under the Sun" here, if you get my drift. Forty years of CFS and counting, I continue with my nutritious diet, exercises and positive mental attitude, but still remission eludes me. Maybe I just don't want it enough . . .

 

[Sharon1402]

@Sharon1402 Toby Morrison aside, I'm still reeling from the fact that you found your NHS CFS Clinic helpful!

My GP looked into the track record of our nearest one and found it to be so dreadfully poor that he felt it would be a waste of my precious energy attending. The 2 hour round trip alone would have sent me into a tailspin from the sensory overload of moving traffic. All so I could discuss with an occupational therapist how best to manage my condition. Hmm. . .

With regard to Toby Morrison, I am unclear what you are getting for your money.

If the nutritional information isn't tailored to your individual needs (via blood tests, medical examination, etc) what makes it so different from the free information available online? Likewise, the exercises.

As for 'mindset', probably the best coping tool in my armoury has been the practice of mindfulness. I downloaded the methodology and exercises, some for pennies, others for free.

Eating well, keeping yourself as physically active as your condition allows and cultivating a positive mental attitude is nothing more than common sense (works for "normal" people too!).

Bear in mind that, being 16 at illness onset, Toby was already statistically more likely to improve over time, regardless of his "journey of discovery". That said, if anyone feels better for following his guidelines then I am sincerely glad for you.

However, based on the information presented so far, there is "nothing new under the Sun" here, if you get my drift. Forty years of CFS and counting, I continue with my nutritious diet, exercises and positive mental attitude, but still remission eludes me. Maybe I just don't want it enough . . .

I'm sorry you don't seem to have had much help from your ME/CFS clinic but it doesn't mean they are all the same. Mine are a great team of open minded forward thinking therapists. It's a shame they are constrained by the NHS but they are very open to discussing alternative therapies and take a very holistic approach to recovery. They are now looking at alternate communication methods to support those who can't travel. They see people having some degree of recovery all the time. Again it comes back to what you see as "recovery". I think it's accepted that life will and should never be the same as that's what made you ill in the first place but I come across recovery stories all the time from people now having a good quality of life again, some of whom have followed Toby's program. As I said some people font have any guidance at all so although his program may not be nothing new to you to some it may be. For me it has consolidated a lot of what I had already began to do and took me that step further.

 

[Sharon1402]

One person on Facebook mentioned that he quoted her in excess of $600.

Toby does not profess this to be a cure but a therapy to help recovery.
He charges around £250 which I think is about $400 aus

 

[MeSci]

I'm sorry you don't seem to have had much help from your ME/CFS clinic but it doesn't mean they are all the same. Mine are a great team of open minded forward thinking therapists. It's a shame they are constrained by the NHS but they are very open to discussing alternative therapies and take a very holistic approach to recovery. They are now looking at alternate communication methods to support those who can't travel. They see people having some degree of recovery all the time.

Which clinic is this?