Mental Illness Or Methylation Mutation?

[Johnmac]

If MTHFR increased the incidence of schizophrenia and bipolar disorder directly, then there would be a statistically significant correlation between the countries with the highest per capita rates of MTHFR (Mexico and Italy, for example) and mental illness. Does any one know if this is true?

Brad, according to Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_schizophrenia

...Mexico & Italy don't have especially high rates of schizophrenia.

I presume diet would play a role - but:

"...the impact of schizophrenia tends to be highest in Oceania, the Middle East, and East Asia, while the nations of Australia, Japan, the United States, and most of Europe typically have low impact."

All (with the partial exception of East Asia) have a healthy level of meat consumption.

 

[PeterPositive]

Brad, according to Wikipedia...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epidemiology_of_schizophrenia

...Mexico & Italy don't have especially high rates of schizophrenia.
I presume diet would play a role - but:

Also the rate of neural tube defect don't correlate with the high presence of those mutations in Italy at least.
Lifestyle and diet seem to play a pretty powerful role. And maybe there's other "stuff" we simply don't know about.

 

[Freddd]

That's quite sad to hear. Consider they are the ones putting us on those drugs, it's their duty to help us out taper them. The withdrawal and discontinuation syndromes are terrible.



I understand what you're saying. But my point is, when I start the protocol(Fred's Active B12 Protocol), it is only then when I face awful startup symptoms like anxiety,rage,insomnia,intensified tingling,etc. that I need a benzo to support it. I understand that the methylation process is 'correcting' the neurotransmitter imbalances,but while it is doing so, it is quite irritating and unpleasant. In the name of healing, in reality it makes me much worse and I need something to depend upon,which are benzos. But benzos are not recommended. So I'm left stranded again,with no support whatsoever. I just want something to "support" the startup symptoms,so I can bear the protocol and go ahead with it. Even micro titrating things is provoking strong responses. But the problem is that whatever is available there to support the startup,is itself interfering with the process.

Quoting Fred from :http://www.forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/hypersensitivity-identified.16104/#post-268225

"As the damaged neurons are reactivated they are extremely irritable and there is an increase in symptoms. Tapering the benzos may be helpful for turning down the secondary low dopamine symptoms. "

So you see, there is an increase in symptoms, and that is when you need support,but it's not recommended. Or maybe I have not understood the point Fred is making. What I understand is that the methylation and atp startup is trying to increase dopamine release and heal those damaged areas speculated in the limbic system, and benzos are trying to decrease the dopamine. Deadlock situation?

I wonder if SSRIs work in a similar fashion..
I know that it's not a good idea to take psych drugs with methylation, but it is the process of methylation and its effects on my body and mind that make me want to take the psych drugs. Good luck to you with tapering the Zoloft. I hope you are able to do it in a smooth manner.



Thanks,I'll keep them in mind.
Melatonin did not suit me. I've tried Gabapentin which also did not suit me. I've seen GABA available on iherb as a supplement. Any suggestions/experiences you would like to share on GABA and its dosage? And would it also interfere with the methylation process,like benzos?

Thanks.

HI Arx,

I didn't see this earlier. There are a subset of people here who have all the usual CFS/FMS symptoms, and a lot of anxiety, extra cautious, things like that. If they have been taking benzos, many of them reach a point of accommodation where the desired effects of the benzo are overpowered by what looks like the generally quiet potential side effect of the benzo reducing dopamine receptor sensitivity. They then have what is popularly called "tolerance withdrawal" and it is really difficult to taper from the benzo and increasing it only works a little while until it gets even worse. This "anxiety" and extra caution person is the one, often along with "wired and tired", that then has extreme responses to any of the Deadlock Quartet and especially, the carnitine which is the only one that can be micro titrated relatively easily.

I take Lorazepam for neuropathy caused spasms. I haven't found any alternative that works. I don't develop tolerance "withdrawal" and I never had a extreme response to carnitine that sets of unbearable mood sequences.

In the deadlock situation, when it is the lack of ATP preventing adequate dopamine and hypothesized damage (Parkinson's like limbic demyelinations), the very early initial startup of the mitochondria usually by LCF is a through the roof even. amounts somewhere between >100mcg and <1mg can trigger a hyper response. In the two years since Arx posted this a number of people have successfully titrated carnitine back to normal doses and normal responses.

 

[Critterina]

That's sort of the same thing. If people with schizophrenia tend to have MTHFR, then certain countries should have a higher incidence - if there is a direct relationship.

This may exist. During times of famine pregnant women triple the likelihood of having a child with this. It is theorized that the fetus has been deprived of folate.

I had decades of Bipolar which resolved when I dealt with mercury. This interface between toxins and methylation provides an indirect means by which MTHFR could increase rates.
Interesting ideas. brad

What you have to be careful of is that there are different MTHFR mutations, and A1298C is associated with schizophrenia, C677T is not but is associated with neural tube defects. Diet (the ability to get methylfolate from foods) will compensate for both of them.