How LORAZEPAM destroyed my health and sanity for 4 1/2 weeks

[Dreambirdie]

I'm glad too that you're doing better DB. I wish more than anything that I didn't have to take 'c', but once started, then it's very difficult to taper, and must be done very, very slowly. So banning them, wouldn't work -- unless of course they came up with one that isn't habituating/addicting -- that would be a miracle.

The petition is to ban long-term benzo prescriptions. Doctors are very clueless about how horribly addictive these drugs can be. They should not be prescribed long term.

If you read the stories on the other petition, you can see how many lives these drugs have RUINED. It's absolutely tragic and horrifying.

 

[dannybex]

Dreambirdie, in no way am I discounting your reaction or especially the prolonged severe nature of it, nor the toxic/addictive nature of the drug, but I was pondering this question a while back because you seem to have strong reactions to almost every supplement or drug and seem to tolerate herbs better: I'm just wondering if perhaps, some of this may be due to being hit by lightning (was it twice?) 35+ years ago?
That probably sounds stupid, but just throwing it out there...

 

[dannybex]

@dannybex what dose of clonazepam were you / are you on? I take between 1/4 - 3/4 of a .5 mg tab most days of the week. On occassion I'll take a whole .5 mg if I have to be somewhere. My anxiety has gotten worse over the 6 month time frame I've been on clonazepam but I think it would have on it's own anyways. Not sure.

I'm on 0.5mgs 3x a day. I was fine on this dose until about 6 months ago (after 9 years), and I think while it may be not working because of tolerance/dependency, it might be due to other confounding factors. Infections, salicylate/phenol intolerance (which affects so many things, including nasal congestion, polyps, fatty acid imbalances and thus high blood pressure, circulation, etc., etc.)...

 

[Dreambirdie]

I talked with Kurt the other day -- he suggested that we don't have enough of the substrate to begin with -- the actual 'gaba'. This might be due to not enough b6/magnesium (or manganese) which help convert glutamine/glutamate to gaba, or completely separate issues -- bacterial infections like strep causing high anxiety.

Yes, that may be true, but the benzos will not "build up" your GABA reserves or benefit your brain.

"How they work
Benzos don’t get you high or give you a rush. They relax and calm you. They do this by enhancing the action of a neurotransmitter called gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA), a “built-in calmer or an internal benzo if you like,” says Ashton. Your brain cells have receptor sites for GABA, and benzos increase those receptors’ affinity for the calming neurotransmitter.

But when all your GABA is “enhanced” by benzos, “the brain thinks, I don’t need all this GABA around, so the receptors for it go away—they internalize, or invert, into the inside of the nerve,” says Ashton. As you lose GABA receptors, you begin to feel anxious again, even though you’re still on the benzo drug. Clinicians call this “tolerance withdrawal.” Now, says Ashton, you have to increase the benzo dosage to get the same calming effect—a vicious cycle that seems to explain the millions of Americans taking regular doses of these drugs.

Other problems also beset those who take benzos daily. The Health Canada report found that long-term use impairs learning ability, motor skills, and sex drive as well as the ability to empathize with others and to cope with stressful situations. “We regularly see individuals with such issues as confusion, generalized fatigue, sleep disorders, slurred speech, and even motor problems like uncoordination and unsteady gait,” says David Perlmutter, MD, a neurologist at the Perlmutter Health Center in Naples, Florida, and author of The Better Brain Book (Riverhead, 2004)."

THE ASHTON MANUAL--GUIDANCE FOR WITHDRAWAL
"Anyone looking for guidance in slowly tapering off anti-anxiety drugs should turn to the Ashton manual (Benzodiazepines: How They Work and How to Withdraw;www.benzo.org.uk/manual.) The so-called “Ashton Method” draws from Ashton’s research and years of experience running an outpatient benzo withdrawal clinic, during which time she saw hundreds of people safely wean themselves from the meds.

First off, Ashton encourages patients to switch to Valium, which has the longest half-life of any benzo. (The half-life is the time it takes for half a given dose to leave your body, which is 200 hours for Valium.) Because Valium clears a little bit at a time, the drug is almost self-tapering, with a gradual comedown that creates less anxiety than faster-acting benzos like Xanax and Klonopin. The more slowly you taper, the greater chance your GABA receptors have to regenerate with each dose reduction.

You can further ease the withdrawal by adding anxiety-reducing techniques such as yoga, breathing exercises, and streamlined nutrition (see “Survival Tips” below)."

http://www.alternativemedicine.com/antidepressants/benzo-trap

 

[Thomas]

That's seems like a common and safe dosing. That is what is written on my Rx. Ya infections can certainly mess things up.

 

[dannybex]

The petition is to ban long-term benzo prescriptions. Doctors are very clueless about how horribly addictive these drugs can be. They should not be prescribed long term.

If you read the stories on the other petition, you can see how many lives these drugs have RUINED. It's absolutely tragic and horrifying.

Totally agree. I also know a few people who have taken them for 20 years with no problem. I'm not one of them of course!

 

[dannybex]

Yes, that may be true, but the benzos will not "build up" your GABA reserves or benefit your brain.

That was his point. That they just recycle what little one has…and so taking some Gaba (powdered) under the tongue does help -- it's helping me a little, or I wouldn't be typing this right now.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Dreambirdie, in no way am I discounting your reaction or especially the prolonged severe nature of it, nor the toxic/addictive nature of the drug, but I was pondering this question a while back because you seem to have strong reactions to almost every supplement or drug and seem to tolerate herbs better: I'm just wondering if perhaps, some of this may be due to being hit by lightning (was it twice?) 35+ years ago?
That probably sounds stupid, but just throwing it out there...

I doubt if that is why I got into this mess. If anything, it's because my LIVER does not detoxify properly due to impaired methylation.

However, I am certainly not alone in that. I encourage you to read people's stories about benzo addiction and dependency. Those drugs are highly problematic for MANY people.

 

[dannybex]

I doubt if that is why I got into this mess. If anything, it's because my LIVER does not detoxify properly due to impaired methylation.

However, I am certainly not alone in that. I encourage you to read people's stories about benzo addiction and dependency. Those drugs are highly problematic for MANY people.

That's what I was thinking as I typed it -- and of course don't know if the brain can affect the liver detoxification issues -- but again, just thought I would throw it out there. I've read the stories…and yes, they can be horrific. I'm definitely not advocating anyone start taking benzos like Dr. Cheney did. He's the one who said that klonopin 'protects the brain', or something to that effect. Anyway, good luck with the petition.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Totally agree. I also know a few people who have taken them for 20 years with no problem. I'm not one of them of course!

It sounds like you are in a potentially dangerous place with the K, which is why I tagged you in this thread. I really hope you find someone to help you investigate your K dependency and address it. You do not want to go through what I (and countless others) had to go through!

There is lots of info and support online, if you need it. I wish you all the best with this.

 

[dannybex]

It sounds like you are in a potentially dangerous place with the K, which is why I tagged you in this thread. I really hope you find someone to help you investigate your K dependency and address it. You do not want to go through what I (and countless others) had to go through!

There is lots of info and support online, if you need it. I wish you all the best with this.

I'm probably going through it -- but like I said, the gaba (and also inositol) are helping. There's not much else I can do unless someone could help me find a medicaid doc (or help pay for a regular doc) to help me restart the Valium taper (per Ashton). That's the program I followed years ago, and was so frustrated that the doc switched me back to 'c'. Just crazy.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I'm probably going through it -- but like I said, the gaba (and also inositol) are helping. There's not much else I can do unless someone could help me find a medicaid doc (or help pay for a regular doc) to help me restart the Valium taper (per Ashton). That's the program I followed years ago, and was so frustrated that the doc switched me back to 'c'. Just crazy.

Yes, the Valium taper is something to push for with whatever doctor will be willing to help you with that.

 

[geraldt52]

Those cfsme people that do come off benzo's, does your sleep ever get better though?

I have been off benzos for 13 years and my sleep is still very bad, not the weapons-grade insomnia that I had for the first several years, but still very bad. There has been so little change for years now that I don't ever expect it to get better.

The horrible anxiety that I had after stopping Klonopin went away after several years though. I never even knew what anxiety was before taking Klonopin.

 

[geraldt52]

I'm on 0.5mgs 3x a day. I was fine on this dose until about 6 months ago (after 9 years), and I think while it may be not working because of tolerance/dependency, it might be due to other confounding factors. Infections, salicylate/phenol intolerance (which affects so many things, including nasal congestion, polyps, fatty acid imbalances and thus high blood pressure, circulation, etc., etc.)...

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is not unlike my reaction to Klonopin and I would say you're in a very difficult spot. As you become dependent on benzos you need to increase the dose, eventually reaching a dose that you can't tolerate, and then the hell begins.

I'm really not sure that switching benzos for the purpose of tapering off is any better than just tapering off whatever benzo you are currently on. Out of complete ignorance I stopped cold-turkey, and I can tell you that that is dangerous and beyond horrible. I would recommend that you taper off very slowly, and I really don't think swapping one benzo for another during the taper really accomplishes anything.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

I'm just curious, what dosage are you all prescribed that take them?

When all my doctors and parents were convinced that I had a severe anxiety panic disorder (stand alone, not caused by ME), they sent me to a rehab center that dealt with mood disorders and drug addictions. The people that were in there for benzos were taking 15-20 times what I was taking. It was horrifying to watch them taper off.

I've taken Klonopin for a 3 month period then stopped (cold turkey with no problems, but in hindsight I would never do that again). I've now taken klonopin for the last year and a half and have never had to go higher than 1mg for sleep. I guess I'm just amazed at the horrible reactions to what I thought were considered "low doses".

 

[dannybex]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but that is not unlike my reaction to Klonopin and I would say you're in a very difficult spot. As you become dependent on benzos you need to increase the dose, eventually reaching a dose that you can't tolerate, and then the hell begins.

I'm really not sure that switching benzos for the purpose of tapering off is any better than just tapering off whatever benzo you are currently on. Out of complete ignorance I stopped cold-turkey, and I can tell you that that is dangerous and beyond horrible. I would recommend that you taper off very slowly, and I really don't think swapping one benzo for another during the taper really accomplishes anything.

Well, if you quit cold turkey, then I can understand your point of view. As mentioned earlier in this thread, I'm doing "better" by increasing my gaba intake (I take it under the tongue), and also adding some inositol. As for 'swapping benzos', that's the advice recommended by one of the world's authorities on getting off of them, Dr. Heather Ashton, also mentioned earlier in this thread. I would love to do that, but my medicaid doc won't cooperate.

 

[dannybex]

I'm just curious, what dosage are you all prescribed that take them?

When all my doctors and parents were convinced that I had a severe anxiety panic disorder (stand alone, not caused by ME), they sent me to a rehab center that dealt with mood disorders and drug addictions. The people that were in there for benzos were taking 15-20 times what I was taking. It was horrifying to watch them taper off.

I've taken Klonopin for a 3 month period then stopped (cold turkey with no problems, but in hindsight I would never do that again). I've now taken klonopin for the last year and a half and have never had to go higher than 1mg for sleep. I guess I'm just amazed at the horrible reactions to what I thought were considered "low doses".

It's probably a relatively low dose, but 1mg of klonopin is the equivalent of approximately 20mgs of valium. That's precisely why Professor Ashton uses valium to taper off "k". That, and the fact that it's a longer acting benzo.

 

[taniaaust1]

I have been off benzos for 13 years and my sleep is still very bad, not the weapons-grade insomnia that I had for the first several years, but still very bad. There has been so little change for years now that I don't ever expect it to get better.

The horrible anxiety that I had after stopping Klonopin went away after several years though. I never even knew what anxiety was before taking Klonopin.

I had the opposite experience to you. I had extremely severe, almost unbearable anxiety due to the ME and the Klonopin took it away, for me was a great drug (I used it at the lowest doses cheney recommends).
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Sorry Dreambirdie to hear of your experience, I know many have very terrible experiences to Benzos but over the last 4 years (maybe 5) in which Ive been using them on and off, the benefits have certainly for me far outweighed the risks

I say this with even with getting a paradoxal reaction after being on Klonopin for many months, to which I then just easily stopped it cold turkey after that one time paradoxal reaction. But the time I was on it for, was an enormous relief to my severe constant anxiety and over stimulation feelings and with coming of of it, it hadnt made my anxiety worst, in fact on stopping it my anxiety was far better then it had been previously before I started it

Since then I take Temazapam at times (only twice a week at the max). Before that, my sleep was really really nightmarish as I had several different kinds of sleep issues and even with taking multiple things at once at one point I was going up to 4-5 nights with NO SLEEP at all (I was halluncination at times due to lack of sleep). So like the Klonopin (thou in a different way), Temazapam was like a lifesaver to me.

These drugs I do think need to be there for people like myself who get very severe symptoms who need them for last resorts but yeah, they still should be taken very cautiously and I'd stop in an instant at any sign of trouble (like I did with the Klonopin due to the once of paradoxal reaction). If it wasnt for these two drugs, I seriously do not know what I would of done.

Hopefully I can go many years more with no issues with Temazapam (I only take it if I really really need it)
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Here in Australia, I had an extremely hard time finding a doctor willing to allow me to take Benzos, over 30 doctors and none would support it. The one who allowed me the Temazapam gave it to me with extremely clear warnings that this was a drug which could cause addiction to it within 5 straight days of taking it. He made it quite clear for me to only take it when desperate and only a couple of times per week.

I had to get my Temazapam presciption refilled while my doctor was away recently and he would only give me enough till she gets back.

I do think its good that doctors here are cautious but I really wish I'd been allowed to take benzos sooner. It should always come down to a case of "does this patient NEED to try this drug". Do not try benzos unless you really think you do need them and cant find an alternative.

Not everyone has terrible experiences with these drugs and for some of us they have been like a life saver. (Ive had severely terrible reactions to 2 other kinds of drugs, one of them deemed quite safe put me in hospital for a week). I can honestly say the Benzos have helped me more then any other drug Ive tried (and Ive tried quite a few).

 

[heapsreal]

I have been off benzos for 13 years and my sleep is still very bad, not the weapons-grade insomnia that I had for the first several years, but still very bad. There has been so little change for years now that I don't ever expect it to get better.

The horrible anxiety that I had after stopping Klonopin went away after several years though. I never even knew what anxiety was before taking Klonopin.

That seems to be the experience i see out there, so why bother, need ways to stop escalating doses. Things like nmda antagonists cab help with reducing benzo tolerance and also withdrawal tolerance.

I say im not addicted because i dont get a high or anything as i use them purely for sleep. I say im dependent on them for better sleep. I hate being reliant on meds for sleep but until theres some magical cure, it aint going to happen.

 

[misskatniss]

Hello you guys, in fact the last dose of Lorazepam I had was for sleep; and I slept horribly without and only slightly better with 0.5 mgs of Lorazepam. There would also be nights in the mental institution when they gave me 25 ml of Atosil (=Promethazin) plus 0.5 mgs of Lorazepam plus 3,75 mgs of Zopiclone plus 30mg of Doxepin for sleep but I couldn´t sleep either.

That means, two benzos, one antihistaminic neuroleptic drug and one antidepressant - quite a load of chemistry - I do not even want to think about what I did to my body using them... The use of Olanzapine was disastrous, either. Clonopine was anesthetic, but I did not feel restored.

I read that benzos only make you sleep more - but sleep quality is said to be poor. I do not claim that for everyone, but I can tell that benzo-induced sleep is longer yet no more restoring than sleep without, for me. So I got rid of the meds, also because antidepressants and neuroleptics cause restless legs in me and I was aware of the addiction risk with benzos.

My conclusion is that whatever substances one takes for better sleep, it´s not the hours but the quality of sleep that makes any difference. Unfortunately I haven´t found anything to raise the quality of sleep.

Withdrawing from te benzos, as I said, was not easy, and it took me weeks to get over it, even if I have had only 3 monthes of them. Therefore I understand anyone who would be wanting them to be banned for long term use, also because nobody in the mental institution took the addiction risk too seriously and they really gave Lorazepam in high doses to EVERYBODY who would arrive there for whatever reason. It makes people calm and quiet and easier to handle. I do not think they did it to actively harm people, I just think it´s a kind of mixture between habit and thoughtlessness.

I am really glad I can do without benzos now. My sleep is a little better now - I still have a hard time falling asleep, it takes me some hour, and got still restless legs; but I have about 6 to 8 hours of sleep again. What helps me now is Tryptophane and Melatonin, but I do not take them daily. The latter seems to cause restless legs as well.
Btw I once tried GABA and nearly threw up.

One of the most striking things to me in the sudden onset of CFS/ME is in fact how a formerly well working sleeping regime with 8-10 hours sound asleep in the week and 12 hours sound asleep on weekends has been ruined from one day to the other to 2-4 hours of poor sleep, with vivid dreams and problem-solving thinking throughout, and absolutely no feeling of being restored the day after. I think recovery very much depends also from the capacity of the body to sleep enough and in good quality again. So, my hunting for the sleep-well-treasure goes on... ;-)

Benzos for sleep and benzos for long term treatment for me are unagreeable. What favor do they do to somebody if he gets a drug-induced relief for a couple of weeks (if he does) but afterwards has to face a) addiction and turkey issues or the raising of the dose with no more benefit and b) the original problems in addition??? That´s bizarre or at least unlogical to me.
But as an emergency medication, I have also been glad they exist.

Wish you good solutions for your sleep, everybody!