Liposomal Vit. C - Safe & Powerful Viricide, Bacteriacide, Fungicide & Parasiticide

[aaron_c]

Update: Fatigue from Vit C seems to have been caused by the baking soda that I mixed with it to buffer it. I'm not super clear on what happened there, but I am taking a magnesium ascorbate (liposomal) and it doesn't make me tired.

 

[Sasha]

Interesting article by Paul Jaminet:

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/09/fighting-viral-infections-by-vitamin-c-at-bowel-tolerance/

 

[Sasha]

I've just had a weird experience with my first 1g of liposomal Vitamin C.

Three weeks ago, I started taking Prescript Assist (a highly-regarded, probiotic containing soil-based organisms) at 1/3 capsule/day, hoping it would help my chronic sinusitis as it did someone else who has been taking resistant starch (a powerful prebiotic).

Four days in I started a run of sinus headaches that lasted eight days, including one that started late at night and that I woke up with the next day (unheard of). Six days in I developed a very sore mouth with rough skin and swollen, painful lymph nodes under my jaw. Then I started up with a crop of cold sores, after not having had any in at least a year, possibly longer. I stopped the Prescript Assist after 11 days in case these things were connected and my mouth healed up and the lymph nodes went down and my sinus headaches stopped.

Then, after a few days, I took 1g of liposomal Vitamin C and within two hours I developed another sinus headache and my mouth became raw again, with painful lymph nodes. I haven't take another dose yet.

I've been discussing this over on the Resistant Starch thread and one suggestion is that this reaction indicates that my immune system was being stimulated in both instances and was starting to tackle infections, hence the symptoms.

I'm wondering if anyone else trying liposomal Vitamin C has had such a reaction. I was very surprised: as I mentioned, during my first illness many years ago I was on IV Vit C and later, 45g/day of Vit C tablets that had no effect whatsoever, either way.

I'm not sure what to do next.

 

[Sasha]

I restarted this and have been on 0.25g for about a week with no effects either way - I decided to start on a dose that didn't provoke symptoms and gradually work up. I've just received 'Primal Panacea' by Dr Levy so am going to read it.

How's everyone doing on this?

 

[Aileen]

Did you ever retry the Prescript-Assist?

 

[Sasha]

Did you ever retry the Prescript-Assist?

No - I thought I'd better try either that or the Vit C since the side-effects (or positive effects, who knows) were so similar and I didn't want to confuse the picture.

I've just had two days on 0.5g of the liposomal Vit C and my mouth is slightly raw again. I'm surprised this is happening on such a low dose - I'm wondering if I'm going to be able ever to raise it.

 

[end]

As far as lipo C vs any kind of non-lipo c, I think that to some degree the issue is bowel tolerance. I have also been able to take very high doses of vitamin c without lyposomes at one time...(I was peeing blood at the time, probably a kidney infection but by the time I saw a doctor it had gone away and the test showed nothing). But now I seem to have a much lower bowel tolerance.

I wonder if the answer to your question might be found in researching vitamin c transport. It seems strange that your body would take in so much more than most of us can, yet be unable to use it. Yet that is what it sounds like! Maybe you need more magnesium: I read something about magnesium being necessary for the macrophages to use vitamin c. Or maybe there are different transport mechanisms involved in the gut vs in macrophages et? If that were the case, then liposomal vitamin c might be hugely effective.

Apparently the body increases it's absorption of Vit C when it requires more. When I have a cold I can use much higher dosages before I hit bowel tolerance

 

[Sasha]

Oral absorption is about 10-15%, liposomal about 85-90%. So taking 10 gram liposomal would be equal to about 90 grams oral.

@adreno, can you tell me where you get those figures? I've been looking on Livon Labs's site to try to get references to studies that compare their liposomal stuff with conventional Vit C but there don't seem to be any, just indirect stuff:

http://www.altrient-europe.com/studies/

 

[adreno]

@adreno, can you tell me where you get those figures? I've been looking on Livon Labs's site to try to get references to studies that compare their liposomal stuff with conventional Vit C but there don't seem to be any, just indirect stuff:

http://www.altrient-europe.com/studies/

Some research I did years ago. I don't have the references anymore.

 

[maryb]

@Sasha
I've taken 3 of the liposomal sachets at times and not had any side effect, no bowel movement nada.
Have taken 1 sachet a day of the liposomal for the past 5yrs or so, never knew whether it was doing anything so went onto a cheapo one a few weeks ago, got up to bowel tolerance at I think it was 12/13grms, maybe a bit more, can't remember. That has never happened on the liposomal.....strange

 

[Sasha]

@Sasha
I've taken 3 of the liposomal sachets at times and not had any side effect, no bowel movement nada.
Have taken 1 sachet a day of the liposomal for the past 5yrs or so, never knew whether it was doing anything so went onto a cheapo one a few weeks ago, got up to bowel tolerance at I think it was 12/13grms, maybe a bit more, can't remember. That has never happened on the liposomal.....strange

I don't think you can ever reach bowel tolerance with the liposomal no matter how much you take (from what I've read). The recommendation is that you gauge bowel tolerance using conventional Vit C and then take the equivalent in lipo and/or conventional.

I'd like to find studies on the bioequivalence, though - had a quick look on Pubmed and couldn't see anything.

 

[adreno]

Perhaps this is interesting:

Pharmacokinetics of oral vitamin C

 

[maryb]

I don't think you can ever reach bowel tolerance with the liposomal no matter how much you take (from what I've read). The recommendation is that you gauge bowel tolerance using conventional Vit C and then take the equivalent in lipo and/or conventional.

I'd like to find studies on the bioequivalence, though - had a quick look on Pubmed and couldn't see anything.

Ah well now that makes sense of it then.

 

[Sasha]

Perhaps this is interesting:

Pharmacokinetics of oral vitamin C

Thanks - that one's on the Livon site but it seems rather indirect.

 

[Sasha]

Here they're claiming 98% vs 15%:

http://www.abundanceandhealth.co.uk/products/98-altrient-c.aspx

but with no references given.

 

[adreno]

Here they're claiming 98% vs 15%:

http://www.abundanceandhealth.co.uk/products/98-altrient-c.aspx

but with no references given.

I don't know what you mean by indirect. Actually, the study showed equal blood levels for oral and liposomal C up to 5 grams, which is rather weird - I certainly feel the difference between the two. Perhaps blood levels aren't all that interesting. It is intracellular levels that we are really interested in, and I think there are no studies measuring those.

 

[Sasha]

I don't know what you mean by indirect. Actually, the study showed equal blood levels for oral and liposomal C up to 5 grams, which is rather weird - I certainly feel the difference between the two. Perhaps blood levels aren't all that interesting. It is intracellular levels that we are really interested in, and I think there are no studies measuring those.

I've been having problems reading for the last couple of days (brainfog) and I can see now this is a direct comparison (oops).

You're right - the 5g curves are very similar. The 5g conventional vs 20g lipo are different but then it's not comparing like dose with like dose. I wonder if the therapeutic idea is to get the concentration up and that that isn't possible with conventional Vit C because of the bowel tolerance limits.

And as you say, maybe it's intracellular levels that count.

 

[Daffodil]

for cancer, some doctors give 100 000 grams vit C per IV. I know one CFS patient taking that much.

I wish the homemade lipo C didn't taste like death. cannot afford IV

 

[adreno]

for cancer, some doctors give 100 000 grams vit C per IV. I know one CFS patient taking that much.

I wish the homemade lipo C didn't taste like death. cannot afford IV

No, they don't. But they might give 100 grams.

 

[Sasha]

for cancer, some doctors give 100 000 grams vit C per IV. I know one CFS patient taking that much.

Wow - is it doing any good? How long/often have they been on it?

I wish the homemade lipo C didn't taste like death. cannot afford IV

Does it taste horrible because of all the unencapsulated Vit C in it (which would make it sour, I assume)? If so, I wonder if there's a way to separate it out. The Livon Labs lipo-C sinks to the bottom of a glass of water in a blobby string (yum!). It would be possible to just pour almost all of the water away without disturbing it.