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Xeno/estrogens link to CFS/Fibromyalgia - Success!!

Messages
26
Location
UK
iacyi, I don't know what an aromatase inhibitor is, but are you saying K2 can be helpful with estrogen metabolism or hamful? Thank you!

Aromatase is the enzyme which synthesises oestrogen, and inhibitors act to block it somehow. I think aromatase inhibitor refers to drugs that reduce it, so maybe it isn't technically the same thing.

I think it could be a good thing. I don't know how it applies to females or humans, since the study talked about male rats, but K2 is supposed to be pretty safe anyway. There's a thread about K2 here.
 
Messages
16
Location
Brisbane, Australia
Hey Gestalt

Thanks for the great post, congratulations on a valuable discovery. In your reading on xenoestrgens, I was wondering if you have learned:

1. If any other common prescription drugs can act as potent xenoestrogens ?
2. If elevated liver enzymes (AST, ALT) can be a sign of problems metabolising xenoestrogens ?

Also do you know if 23andme covers the SNP's in the Genova DetoxiGenomic panel ?

Many thanks ....
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
Just doing a little more research on DIM:



http://cancerprevres.aacrjournals.org/content/2/3/251.full

- CYP1A1 and CYP1A2 metabolize E2 to 2-hydroxyestradiol (2-OHE2), a noncarcinogenic compound (1, 3). 2-OHE2 can be further metabolized to 2-methoxyestradiol (2-MeOE2), a beneficial compound that protects against breast tumors in rodents and is being studied as a treatment for human breast cancer (20, 21). CYP1B1 metabolizes E2 to 4-hydroxyestradiol (4-OHE2), a highly genotoxic and carcinogenic metabolite (1, 3).

- We find that DIM strongly induces all CYP1 mRNAs in a dose-dependent fashion (Table 1). Induction at 30 μmol/L DIM was 310-, 49-, and 11-fold for CYP1A1, CYP1A2, and CYP1B1, respectively.

- DIM strongly inhibits estrogen receptor-α expression and estrogen signaling,



http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9741959

- Compared with control liver slice microsomes (dimethyl sulphoxide-only treated), DIM induced levels of CYP1A2 but had little effect on levels of CYP3A4.



So, just to clarify

- DIM , at least in the 2nd study had no effect on CYP3A4.

- pathways leading to both 2-hydroxy and 4-hydroxy are upregulated but the 2-hydroxy pathway is much more regulated … does this mean more or less 4-hydroxy will be produced ?

- the fact that Dim strongly inhibits estrogen receptor expression and estrogen signaling is concerning



As a person with an upregulated CYP1B1, documented oxidative stress and a person who needs estrogen (we all do!) I’m not sure what to do. I don’t want to downregulate the receptors or reduce estrogen signaling but I may be producing a lot of extra oxidative stress due to the CYP1B1 upregulation.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
Hey Gestalt

Thanks for the great post, congratulations on a valuable discovery. In your reading on xenoestrgens, I was wondering if you have learned:

1. If any other common prescription drugs can act as potent xenoestrogens ?
2. If elevated liver enzymes (AST, ALT) can be a sign of problems metabolising xenoestrogens ?

Also do you know if 23andme covers the SNP's in the Genova DetoxiGenomic panel ?

Many thanks ....
To Answer your questions..
1 and 2: No idea

3. Yes some, and and a few others

Calico13 made a very good spreadsheet, Click on the bottom 2 tabs, tab 2 & 3 for reference

- We find that DIM strongly induces all CYP1 mRNAs in a dose-dependent fashion (Table 1). Induction at 30 μmol/L DIM was 310-, 49-, and 11-fold for CYP1A1, CYP1A2, and CYP1B1, respectively.


- pathways leading to both 2-hydroxy and 4-hydroxy are upregulated but the 2-hydroxy pathway is much more regulated … does this mean more or less 4-hydroxy will be produced ?

- the fact that Dim strongly inhibits estrogen receptor expression and estrogen signaling is concerning



As a person with an upregulated CYP1B1, documented oxidative stress and a person who needs estrogen (we all do!) I’m not sure what to do. I don’t want to downregulate the receptors or reduce estrogen signaling but I may be producing a lot of extra oxidative stress due to the CYP1B1 upregulation.

Excellent research finds! A very strong induction of CYP1A1 and CYP1A2 will have a net effect of less 4-hydroxy production.

In regards to inhibition of estrogen receptor-α expression and estrogen signaling...

(wikipedia)

."This activity of DIM relates to a blocking function toward the aryl hydrocarbon receptor which is then resistant to activation by pesticides.74 " Search this site: http://www.dimfaq.com/site/articles.htm for receptor to find more details

It would seem that DIM is safe in regards to your concerns about inhibition of estrogen receptors and for the most part is a beneficial process. You could e-mail the docs on that site, and perhaps get more specifics if your still concerned.
 

triffid113

Day of the Square Peg
Messages
831
Location
Michigan
This story relates to my girlfriend who had Dermatomyositis/Psoriases/Eczema and how what worked for her, helped me with my CFS/Fibromyalgia.

Story 1 - Girlfriend (Non - CFS/ME):
When my girlfriend was about 10 years old, she contracted what was diagnosed at the time as Dermatomyositis. She couldn't keep food down, and became incredibly weak, couldn't walk down stairs, and almost starved to death. The Doctors in a last ditch effort gave her steroids and the state of her health improved quickly, to the point she was free of problems until she was about 20 years old. Then at 20 she began battling a flare up of Psoriases/Eczema which subsided after a year. Keeping food down wasn't an issue at this time. Same thing happened when she was 26. And now again at 29 the Psoriases like symptoms & Eczema came back.

I hunted down the best Naturopath I could find and he recommended she do the DetoxiGenomic Profile from Genova Diagnostics.

Here are her results:
View attachment 3530

What's important to note here are the polymorphisms on the genes coding for Estrogen metabolism.

-CYP1B1 - Up-regulated.....responsible for 4-hydroxylation of estrogen
-CYP3A4 - Down-regulated (40% supposed) ........responsible for metabolism of cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, etc.
-COMT - Down-regulated (40% supposed)..........responsible for estrogen metabolism

Now how does this all relate to each other?
View attachment 3531
Follow the orange arrows for the dominant pathway given the stated polymorphisms.

The combination of polymorphisms CYP3A4 and COMT have the effect of double down regulation on the production of good estrogen and an up-regulation via the most damaging pathway. A double whammy of sorts. Not good.

The polymorphism up-regulation on CYP1B1 exacerbates the problem by shuttling estrogen down for Quinone production massively increasing oxidative stress and putting a huge unnecessary load on Glutathione. My current theory is that this is what the root cause is behind dermatomycoytis, psoriases and eczema.

So what to do about it? - Supplements:
- I3C & DIM - These provide nutritional workarounds by helping estridol convert into the favorable 2-hyroxy-estradiol instead of the harmful 4-hyroxy-estradiol. In effect they support the CYP3A4 pathway.
- Calcium D-Glucarate- Supports the glucoronosyl transferase enzyme

Within 2 days of taking these, she had massive improvements in decreasing her symptoms and after a couple of weeks is almost completely healed. Success #1 !!!

Story 2 - Me the guy with CFS/Fibromyalgia
I came down with CFS/Fibromyalgia when I was 15 years old. I am 27 now, so I have been battling this for almost half my life. My primary symptoms are chronic fatigue, tired but wired, anxiety, excessive high body temperature...especially at night, muscle achiness, brain fog, poor concentration, poor memory, headaches, no appetite for 3 hours after waking- nausea associated with this, IBS, allergies & very poor recovery after exercise. I am textbook ME/CFS/Fibromyalgia. In contrast to my gf, I do not have Dermatomyositis/Psoriases/Eczema. My skin is fine and for the most part has been most of my life.

What I decided to do was take all the same supplements that my girlfriend was taking just to see what would happen. Within 24 hours, I had a huge burst of energy, brain fog cleared up, concentration improved and muscle achiness diminished. My emotions felt more stable and waking up in the morning I felt somewhat rejuvenated and not like I had been hit by a semi- truck which was the norm for me. Success #2!! I hit the gym, my cardio endurance improved, and when lifting weights my strength had also improved. Oddly my upper body sweats more now as well, and I appear to release heat better. Wow, I was elated. I hadn't felt like this in over a decade.

And then a few days later I had a setback. Fatigue started to return and I became exhausted. What I didn't mention is I had also started taking Sulforaphane (I figure may as well take all the broccoli supplements) and then subsequently learned it was an inhibitor of CYP3A4. Not good. So myself and my gf (who was also temporarily set back) stopped taking it and the benefits I3C & DIM began to return quickly.

Now I myself have not yet done the DetoxiGenomic Profile so I am merely guessing I have a somewhat similar of a genetic profile to my girlfriend. I have the test on order so hopefully in about 1 month's time I'll have a better idea of what's going on for myself from a genetic stand point.

For now my theory is that a lot of my CFS/Fibromyalgia is somehow linked to Xenoestrogens. The big assumption I am making here is that xenoestrogens are metabolized using more or less the same pathways as estrogen and that supporting those pathways may help. In retrospect I remembered the CFS/Fibromyalgia started almost right after I did a stint of Accutane when I was 15. Accutane is a potent xenoestrogen. And the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms I experienced for the last 10 years all line up quite well with the symptoms of a male with low effective testosterone and estrogen dominance. I currently believe that Accutane may have started a negative feedback loop of some kind.

I wrote an extensive article on Xenoestrogens and posted it to my website here:
---> http://www.gestaltreality.com/2012/05/19/fake-estrogen-a-modern-health-epidemic/ <---

Now while I have made drastic improvements I still do not feel quite 100%. I have Amy Yasko's Comprehensive Methylation Panel on order for myself and my gf, so I can address perhaps other underlying and potentially related issues.

Important Note: I have other problems that I have had since birth which indicate issues with Methylation prior to the onset of CFS/Fibromyalgia. My mother used thyroid meds to get pregnant with me, her mother died of thyroid cancer, my grandpa on my dad's side has prostate issues and his mother had b12 issues, my dad and his mother both got grey hair in their late 20's, my cousin on my dad's side has CFS....all of these things are linked with polymorphisms in methylation. So thus I have a sneaking suspicion I inherited issues from both my parents in regards to this. The toxic exposure (Accutane), again just made everything worse and was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak and began the CFS. I was a colicky baby, had dry bleeding skin, numerous allergies, anxiety, and nightmares since I was born. All this got worse with the onset of CFS. As a child I also apparently reacted violently to MMR vaccinations.

Note I also recently added this:
- SAMe - Supports COMT in enhancing the methylation of 2 and 4-hydroxy-estradiol instead of quinone production.

It seems to be really helping my gf as well. And for myself I "think" it helps.

I have tried a gazillion supplements over the last decade or so, and been to countless doctors/Naturopath's and tried many therapies & diets. I even went to the Mayo clinic and after $10,000 worth of work they told me I was perfectly healthy according to their tests and to go home and learn to live with it. Yea right!

So far what I have found has worked for me was massive doses of glutamine 10-20g a day. This increased my energy from about 30% to 60% and a high protein diet took me to about 70%. The glutamine was a magic bullet in terms of the insane catabolism I had experienced with the associated achy muscular pain which had been virtually debilitating. Also acidophilus worked as well. And now the I3C & DIM. The journey continues.

I am curious if anyone else has experimented with IC3 & DIM? Again this may not work for everyone, depending on your genetic predispositions. The DIM I got is a very potent kind, double strength from Enzymatic Therapy. Supposedly the best.
/DIm
I take I3C/DIM in this product from Life EXtension to ward off cancer. I have done so since before getting on the methylation protocol, however I have always taken supplements supporting methylation, just not ACTIVE ones (and I have 18out of 30 genetic defects in the methylation area (Yasko panel) so the active supplements are highly needed by me (but I never really had startup symptoms due to never being totally without anything...although I had mild (very mild) startup symptoms when I stopped taking a lot of my supplements several times due to too many pills cauing nausea). So I cannot tell you what I3C/DIM does functionally except that it has been proven to make your hormones come out right so I take it to avoid breast cancer. And one of my friends who started bioidentical hormone replacement same time as me has contracted breats cancer while I have not. I am placing my faith in this supplement and hope it is not misguided: http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Triple-Action-Cruciferous-Vegetable-Extract-60-Veggie-Caps/22969
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
Based on what I found above I don't think it is misguided. The 4-hydroxy does result in quinones and the DIM upregulates it's pathway but upregulates the pathway to 2-hydroxy much, much more.

But, also, I think the above extracts I posted also imply there will be less estrogen in circulation. I'm not sure that is a good thing.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
But, also, I think the above extracts I posted also imply there will be less estrogen in circulation. I'm not sure that is a good thing.

"Inhibition of Estrogen receptor-α expression and estrogen signaling" and "estrogen in circulation" are two very different things that don't necessarily correlate. According to everything I have read DIM does not change actual estrogen levels; It changes how estrogen is metabolized. It is important to make very careful distinctions between wording and phrasing here so you don't jump to the wrong conclusions and misinterpret biochemical nomeclature.
 

globalpilot

Senior Member
Messages
626
Location
Ontario
I'm basing my concern on the fact that the enzymes are upregulated. I don't know why an upregulation wouldn't result in lower levels of the metabolite in circulation.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
I'm basing my concern on the fact that the enzymes are upregulated. I don't know why an upregulation wouldn't result in lower levels of the metabolite in circulation.

There is no evidence in any of the medical literature for lower estrogen levels due to an up-regulation in the CYP enzymes. DIM is safe to take for those even on the pill.

I suggest you read the description section here: http://www.healthsuperstore.com/p-enzymatic-therapy-estrobalance.htm

Also this site is an incredible resource: http://www.dimfaq.com/site/intro.htm
 
Messages
19
Gestalt interesting post that you make. i am suffering from side effects from propecia which includes a higher than average estradiol level, whcih makes me think some of what you said i may relate to.

i got the 23andme test and tried to lookup the CYP3A4 gene, but it gave me 57 different SNPs from it. how does that lab your girlfriend purchased choose which SNP to choose because I don't seei t listed there? I'm kind of at a loss here on how to know if I have a similar mutation or not because I have too many SNPs to look at. I've been trying to research each of tehse SNPs, but not come to any conclusions as of yet.

thanks for any info.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
rocky

Most labs choose a SNP to look at based on some kind of genetic cross-reference study with noted effects. You could always call up Genova labs and ask them why they chose that specific SNP and what their sources or reasons are. The other SNPs technically may even be more important but genetic research is in it's infancy.

You can check the Spreadsheet Calico13 created here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As5xqg3KuimidDZVRWxKa1gwS0p2a2ZhcnlGSGhPUnc#gid=1

Click on the bottom tab "Cytochrome P450 SNP's" and then look for CYP3A4 and then cross-reference the rs#.
 
Messages
19
rocky

Most labs choose a SNP to look at based on some kind of genetic cross-reference study with noted effects. You could always call up Genova labs and ask them why they chose that specific SNP and what their sources or reasons are. The other SNPs technically may even be more important but genetic research is in it's infancy.

You can check the Spreadsheet Calico13 created here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0As5xqg3KuimidDZVRWxKa1gwS0p2a2ZhcnlGSGhPUnc#gid=1

Click on the bottom tab "Cytochrome P450 SNP's" and then look for CYP3A4 and then cross-reference the rs#.

thank you for that spreadsheet, that is very helpful document with this.

i used it to look up CYP1B1, similar to what your girlfriend have, and I seem to have 2 that are +/- out of 3 (one is -/-). How does that test that she took determine if there is a problem, does it have to be +/+, or because I am +/-, I have part of a problem?

thanks for any help. btw, i was reading through your journal.. very interesting stuff, you seem to know the specific gene pathways jobs in many different ways. did this take research of your own on specific snps. i saw the heartfix website you linked to and have read much of it, very interesting stuff happenign with this.
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
I got my 23andme a month or so ago and now I am ready to tackle the whole xenoestrogens thingie! It seems I have a good clust of double mutations in the CYP1 genes and some hetero in the COMT. The calico spread sheet link doesnt works aymore :( How can we access to the SNP´s used by genova now? I will investigate globalpilot These are good news for me. With all my CYP1A1, CYP1A2 and CYP1B1 mutations DIM makes sense.
 

freshveggies

Senior Member
Messages
196
I got my 23andme a month or so ago and now I am ready to tackle the whole xenoestrogens thingie! It seems I have a good clust of double mutations in the CYP1 genes and some hetero in the COMT. The calico spread sheet link doesnt works aymore :( How can we access to the SNP´s used by genova now? I will investigate globalpilot These are good news for me. With all my CYP1A1, CYP1A2 and CYP1B1 mutations DIM makes sense.

go to MTHFRsupport.com and you can upload your 23 and me raw data and get a 19 page report showing a lot of snips, including CYP.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
I got my 23andme a month or so ago and now I am ready to tackle the whole xenoestrogens thingie! It seems I have a good clust of double mutations in the CYP1 genes and some hetero in the COMT. The calico spread sheet link doesnt works aymore :( How can we access to the SNP´s used by genova now? I will investigate globalpilot These are good news for me. With all my CYP1A1, CYP1A2 and CYP1B1 mutations DIM makes sense.


Alternatively you can use this site: https://geneticgenie.org/detox-profile/
 

Beyond

Juice Me Up, Scotty!!!
Messages
1,122
Location
Murcia, Spain
Thanks, guys. Oh have just noticed that the gene I was looking for, CYP3A4, was in genetic genie. Shoot, I did that weeks ago -__- Brainfoggy me!
 

cigana

Senior Member
Messages
1,095
Location
UK
This story relates to my girlfriend who had Dermatomyositis/Psoriases/Eczema and how what worked for her, helped me with my CFS/Fibromyalgia.

Story 1 - Girlfriend (Non - CFS/ME):
When my girlfriend was about 10 years old, she contracted what was diagnosed at the time as Dermatomyositis. She couldn't keep food down, and became incredibly weak, couldn't walk down stairs, and almost starved to death. The Doctors in a last ditch effort gave her steroids and the state of her health improved quickly, to the point she was free of problems until she was about 20 years old. Then at 20 she began battling a flare up of Psoriases/Eczema which subsided after a year. Keeping food down wasn't an issue at this time. Same thing happened when she was 26. And now again at 29 the Psoriases like symptoms & Eczema came back.

I hunted down the best Naturopath I could find and he recommended she do the DetoxiGenomic Profile from Genova Diagnostics.

Here are her results:
View attachment 3530

What's important to note here are the polymorphisms on the genes coding for Estrogen metabolism.

-CYP1B1 - Up-regulated.....responsible for 4-hydroxylation of estrogen
-CYP3A4 - Down-regulated (40% supposed) ........responsible for metabolism of cortisol, estrogen, testosterone, etc.
-COMT - Down-regulated (40% supposed)..........responsible for estrogen metabolism

Now how does this all relate to each other?
View attachment 3531
Follow the orange arrows for the dominant pathway given the stated polymorphisms.

The combination of polymorphisms CYP3A4 and COMT have the effect of double down regulation on the production of good estrogen and an up-regulation via the most damaging pathway. A double whammy of sorts. Not good.

The polymorphism up-regulation on CYP1B1 exacerbates the problem by shuttling estrogen down for Quinone production massively increasing oxidative stress and putting a huge unnecessary load on Glutathione. My current theory is that this is what the root cause is behind dermatomycoytis, psoriases and eczema.

So what to do about it? - Supplements:
- I3C & DIM - These provide nutritional workarounds by helping estridol convert into the favorable 2-hyroxy-estradiol instead of the harmful 4-hyroxy-estradiol. In effect they support the CYP3A4 pathway.
- Calcium D-Glucarate- Supports the glucoronosyl transferase enzyme

Within 2 days of taking these, she had massive improvements in decreasing her symptoms and after a couple of weeks is almost completely healed. Success #1 !!!

Story 2 - Me the guy with CFS/Fibromyalgia
I came down with CFS/Fibromyalgia when I was 15 years old. I am 27 now, so I have been battling this for almost half my life. My primary symptoms are chronic fatigue, tired but wired, anxiety, excessive high body temperature...especially at night, muscle achiness, brain fog, poor concentration, poor memory, headaches, no appetite for 3 hours after waking- nausea associated with this, IBS, allergies & very poor recovery after exercise. I am textbook ME/CFS/Fibromyalgia. In contrast to my gf, I do not have Dermatomyositis/Psoriases/Eczema. My skin is fine and for the most part has been most of my life.

What I decided to do was take all the same supplements that my girlfriend was taking just to see what would happen. Within 24 hours, I had a huge burst of energy, brain fog cleared up, concentration improved and muscle achiness diminished. My emotions felt more stable and waking up in the morning I felt somewhat rejuvenated and not like I had been hit by a semi- truck which was the norm for me. Success #2!! I hit the gym, my cardio endurance improved, and when lifting weights my strength had also improved. Oddly my upper body sweats more now as well, and I appear to release heat better. Wow, I was elated. I hadn't felt like this in over a decade.

And then a few days later I had a setback. Fatigue started to return and I became exhausted. What I didn't mention is I had also started taking Sulforaphane (I figure may as well take all the broccoli supplements) and then subsequently learned it was an inhibitor of CYP3A4. Not good. So myself and my gf (who was also temporarily set back) stopped taking it and the benefits I3C & DIM began to return quickly.

Now I myself have not yet done the DetoxiGenomic Profile so I am merely guessing I have a somewhat similar of a genetic profile to my girlfriend. I have the test on order so hopefully in about 1 month's time I'll have a better idea of what's going on for myself from a genetic stand point.

For now my theory is that a lot of my CFS/Fibromyalgia is somehow linked to Xenoestrogens. The big assumption I am making here is that xenoestrogens are metabolized using more or less the same pathways as estrogen and that supporting those pathways may help. In retrospect I remembered the CFS/Fibromyalgia started almost right after I did a stint of Accutane when I was 15. Accutane is a potent xenoestrogen. And the CFS/Fibromyalgia symptoms I experienced for the last 10 years all line up quite well with the symptoms of a male with low effective testosterone and estrogen dominance. I currently believe that Accutane may have started a negative feedback loop of some kind.

I wrote an extensive article on Xenoestrogens and posted it to my website here:
---> http://www.gestaltreality.com/2012/05/19/fake-estrogen-a-modern-health-epidemic/ <---

Now while I have made drastic improvements I still do not feel quite 100%. I have Amy Yasko's Comprehensive Methylation Panel on order for myself and my gf, so I can address perhaps other underlying and potentially related issues.

Important Note: I have other problems that I have had since birth which indicate issues with Methylation prior to the onset of CFS/Fibromyalgia. My mother used thyroid meds to get pregnant with me, her mother died of thyroid cancer, my grandpa on my dad's side has prostate issues and his mother had b12 issues, my dad and his mother both got grey hair in their late 20's, my cousin on my dad's side has CFS....all of these things are linked with polymorphisms in methylation. So thus I have a sneaking suspicion I inherited issues from both my parents in regards to this. The toxic exposure (Accutane), again just made everything worse and was the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak and began the CFS. I was a colicky baby, had dry bleeding skin, numerous allergies, anxiety, and nightmares since I was born. All this got worse with the onset of CFS. As a child I also apparently reacted violently to MMR vaccinations.

Note I also recently added this:
- SAMe - Supports COMT in enhancing the methylation of 2 and 4-hydroxy-estradiol instead of quinone production.

It seems to be really helping my gf as well. And for myself I "think" it helps.

I have tried a gazillion supplements over the last decade or so, and been to countless doctors/Naturopath's and tried many therapies & diets. I even went to the Mayo clinic and after $10,000 worth of work they told me I was perfectly healthy according to their tests and to go home and learn to live with it. Yea right!

So far what I have found has worked for me was massive doses of glutamine 10-20g a day. This increased my energy from about 30% to 60% and a high protein diet took me to about 70%. The glutamine was a magic bullet in terms of the insane catabolism I had experienced with the associated achy muscular pain which had been virtually debilitating. Also acidophilus worked as well. And now the I3C & DIM. The journey continues.

I am curious if anyone else has experimented with IC3 & DIM? Again this may not work for everyone, depending on your genetic predispositions. The DIM I got is a very potent kind, double strength from Enzymatic Therapy. Supposedly the best.
I am very interested in this as I have the same 3 mutations as your gf (COMT, CYP3A4 and CYP1B1).
I have had plenty of cruciferous vegetables and DIM supplements in the past to no avail, though.
 

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
@Gestalt and @Beyond are these treatments still working for you? What level of functioning are you at?
On a good day I am a 9/10 on a bad day 6/10. Not doing these treatments anymore.

It is my conclusion based off seeing what happened with myself and my gf, the estrogen issue really is a microbial issue. http://www.gestaltreality.com/2013/09/21/metabolic-cholestatic-pruritus/

It has to do with enterohepatic re-circulation and gut dysbiosis. Fix the gut with the right pre & pro biotics and the hormonal issues and detox issues fix themselves.