• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

BMJ Rapid Response: Is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome a meme? 18 June 2014

Dx Revision Watch

Suzy Chapman Owner of Dx Revision Watch
Messages
3,061
Location
UK
Last edited:

Sidereal

Senior Member
Messages
4,856
This piece was written purely as a hypothetical deliberation.

It does not reflect the authors’ views on the realities of living with, managing or treating CFS/ME.

It was naïve of the authors not to consider the implications of a wider publication via the internet of what was intended to spark debate in the medical arena.

Oh I see. There's an internet slang word for such behaviour. Trolling.
 

snowathlete

Senior Member
Messages
5,374
Location
UK
It's an outrage that stuff like this is still getting said given the lack of evidence to back it up.
Nevertheless, one day, not too far away now, it will be abundantly clear that this guy and others of his ilk are terrible at science and foolish of mind. They will be remembered for what they are and their own words will convict them in the books of history forever.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
It's an outrage that stuff like this is still getting said given the lack of evidence to back it up.
Nevertheless, one day, not too far away now, it will be abundantly clear that this guy and others of his ilk are terrible at science and foolish of mind. They will be remembered for what they are and their own words will convict them in the books of history forever.


I am of the opinion that one day is no longer decades away, but years at most, for ME at least. For other diseases still caught in the evidence wasteland of psychogenic medicine, they might have to wait for some time more. Of course psychogenic proponents will protest till the end. I found it very interesting over the years to read accounts of scientists whose pet theories were disproved. Until they got too old to continue they often kept trying to prove their theory. I think I read some of this in a book on this very topic.

The problem with psychogenic medicine as it currently stands, and BPS in particular, is its Zombie Science. It receives financial and political support because it suits other agendas. Even though its dead for ME and about to be buried, like old horror movies you can expect the villain to be resurrected a few times.
 

natasa778

Senior Member
Messages
1,774
I am of the opinion that one day is no longer decades away, but years at most, for ME at least. For other diseases still caught in the evidence wasteland of psychogenic medicine, they might have to wait for some time more. Of course psychogenic proponents will protest till the end. I found it very interesting over the years to read accounts of scientists whose pet theories were disproved. Until they got too old to continue they often kept trying to prove their theory. I think I read some of this in a book on this very topic.

It would be interesting to see what happened to psychogenic proponents of MS once MRI scans sealed their fate. Just washed their hands and found another group to abuse?
 

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
They are basically covering their backs with NICE guidelines. As long as those guidelines are as bad as they are, those psychos are practically untouchable. :(

Well, the NICE guidelines don't say that patients kid themselves that they're ill in order to get disability benefits. I don't think they're untouchable.
 

user9876

Senior Member
Messages
4,556
Mrs 'those views should not have been shared in public' Buckley is also responsible for shaping the health care of the East region

Mrs Buckley, who works at the hospital as the Essex Chronic Fatigue service manager and head of rehabilitation, has become the third Southend-based clinician to be appointed to the organisation responsible for shaping the future provision of health care to 5.8 million people across Bedfordshire, Cambridgeshire, Essex, Hertfordshire, Norfolk and Suffolk. No other hospital has two, let alone three, representatives on the board.

http://www.southend.nhs.uk/about-us/media-centre/southend-news/nr-99-(2013)/

So if you live in these regions expect real treatment to be replaced by CBT
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
Sonya Chowdhury ‏@SonyaChowdhury 4m
@actionforme also written to CEO of trust & #ME Essex Service. @EssexPSR respect fr public serv staff a right. no respect from this doc!


Action for ME Facebook
20 June 2014

'Action for M.E. has responded to comments made online this week in response to a BMJ article, What causes chronic fatigue syndrome?, which you can read at http://www.bmj.com/content/329/7472/928?tab=responses

Despite the article being nearly a decade old, posts purporting to be from two healthcare professionals share views we believe to be ignorant, insulting and absolutely unacceptable.

We have said as much in our response, which we hope the BMJ accept for online publication. If the editor decides not to, we will share it here in full next week.

We have also written to one of the health professionals in question, Dr Anthony Collings, with copies sent to the Chief Executive and Medical Director of Southend University Hospital NHS Foundation Trust where he is based.'

'Sonya Chowdhury We have also written to the CEO of the Trust that this service sits under as well as the service itself. It is good to see a timely response although does not undo all the offence caused.'
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
BMJ Rapid Response

Re: What causes chronic fatigue syndrome?
20 June 2014
As a Fellow of the British Psychological Society who has worked in this field since the early 1980s, words fail me. To the experts, the comment by Collings reveals little except the author's complete lack of knowledge of the literature on CFS and post viral syndromes. It's a shame that the BMJ chose to publish it. This is not medicine but gossip for the bored and prejudiced.

EM Goudsmit, Health Psychologist (Retired)


NA, London
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
Interesting comment:

https://www.facebook.com/permalink....id=709058395818488&offset=0&total_comments=29

Vanessa Ann Coe

This makes me livid! I am from essex and got sent to these people 5 years ago but didnt get very far with them as I moved overseas. But what is even stranger/more ironic is that an expert on memes and the the writer of The Meme Machine - Dr Susan Blackmore actually wrote that book while she herself was suffering from cfs/me! I was lucky to meet her last year and think I will email her tomorrow about this!
 

Firestormm

Senior Member
Messages
5,055
Location
Cornwall England
http://www.bmj.com/content/329/7472/928/rr/702858

Re: What causes chronic fatigue syndrome?

Stephen E. Ralph, Retired Diagnostic Radiographer

www.meactionuk.org.uk, Yahoogroups


...last year, my new rheumatologist decided to request some more blood tests to check my hormone levels and during February 2014 I was diagnosed with Hypogonaotropic Hypogonadism - a lifelong dysfunction of my Pituitary glad that was genetically inherited.

"Chronic Fatigue" is a major symptom of Behcet's disease and "chronic fatigue" is also a major symptom of pituitary disorders be they inherited or due to injury of the pituitary gland.

I now realise that those doctors who claim to be specialists in "chronic fatigue" are not specialists in all the possible causes of "chronic fatigue" that cover many clinical specialities from Rheumatology, Endocrinology and Neurology.

Having been made housebound and bedbound for eight excruciating years from my misdiagnosis of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome it is my view that there is sadly a great deal of ignorance within the medical profession that has been randomly condemning patients to suffer clinical misdiagnosis instead of clinical investigation.

http://tinyurl.com/mxms8g2

Perhaps the time is coming that the medical profession itself will have to take the blame for the mess that they have created covering more than two decades since the artificial construct of Chronic Fatigue Syndrome was introduced.

How can any specialist in "chronic fatigue" make an accurate differential diagnosis if they are not qualified or able to understand all the many pathological causes?

:thumbsup:
 

daisybell

Senior Member
Messages
1,613
Location
New Zealand
What is extraordinary to me is not that there are some doctors who joke about this in privacy - I think we all knew that that went on - but that one of the two top general medical journals in the UK chose to publish it and thereby legitimise it. Just jaw-dropping.

I agree with you totally. That comments like these should be approved by the moderators of the BMJ RR is, to my mind, more horrifying than the fact that there are ill-informed health professionals who choose to write such things. Shame on the BMJ.
 
Messages
13,774
I think that the BMJ's RR are close to an internet forum - they have all sorts of barmy stuff up there.

The BMJ have serious problems with the way in which they cover issues around CFS, and the way in which they select which comments should be published in print, but I don't think that them posting this up online is a problem.