"Real" energy from Vyvanse, Strattera etc?

[Ninan]

Lol. No I was awake at 3am and new I was going to have a cap day if I didn't sleep. 5am took 5mg valium and slept for 3hrs.

Sometimes though I think if too wired valium may not be strong enough. I guess it could reduce that wired feeling and give a more calm energy maybe??

But I was tired at first. Try a smaller dose, who knows. You might have the same effect. But I guess you would have felt the energy as the concentration went down.

 

[Leopardtail]

Both. Or rather: My brain figthing to cope with sensory overload leads to exhaustion. It gets all sensitive and that starts the downward spiral.

Sensitive brain --> tired --> even more sensitive brain --> even more tired etc. Never ends well.

I had major problems with that same issue and found two things out:
High Adrenalin = Agitation intolerance (some scientific argument about this)
Low Noradrenalin = Sensory intolerance (the bit of the brain that filters input is highly dependant on it, seems widely agreed).

I ended up having a test done to look into this stuff.

 

[Ninan]

Lol. No I was awake at 3am and new I was going to have a cap day if I didn't sleep. 5am took 5mg valium and slept for 3hrs.

Sometimes though I think if too wired valium may not be strong enough. I guess it could reduce that wired feeling and give a more calm energy maybe??

I'm thinking that benzo might fix the sensory overload business and hence stop that huge energy leakage.

Anyway, I get high fevers from antibiotics too. Maybe I'm just the mystery woman from Mars.

 

[Ninan]

I had major problems with that same issue and found two things out:
High Adrenalin = Agitation intolerance (some scientific argument about this)
Low Noradrenalin = Sensory intolerance (the bit of the brain that filters input is highly dependant on it, seems widely agreed).

I ended up having a test done to look into this stuff.

Interesting! How do you fix it?

 

[Leopardtail]

Interesting! How do you fix it?

Recent test results so still working on it.
I had high Adrenalin, low Noradrenalin, high Dopamine.
I already found vitamin C improves both mood and health and is used to convert Dopamine to Noradrenaline, so suspect that's part of the picture.
What I need to work out is why Noradrenalin is being converted to Adrenalin too fast and whether my low Blood Volume is causing the high Adrenalin to maintain blood pressure.

Right now my primary focus is the low blood pressure and what is causing it... I know saline infusion causes a massive improvement in symptoms and I feel much better cerebrally when lying down.

 

[Little Bluestem]

@Ninan, Some people with ME have an upregulated autonomic nervous system. Benzos will shift it back down to normal, so what you are experiencing is really not so weird.

 

[Leopardtail]

Some people with ME have an upregulated autonomic nervous system. Benzos will shift it back down to normal, so what you are experiencing is really not so weird.

The degree is up-regulation is half at what was weird right at the top of the 95% range, as yet I have seen research showing that level of hormone, it's enough for a medic to consider it as threatening. What was also weird is that the third (and the middle one) was the very bottom of the normal range making that pattern strange.

There has been some research in the Central Nervious System, not much in general circulation (where I did this) hence we really need the thorough approach I used to be taken on a wider scale to give us far better data on ME patients.

As said though Vitamin C helps a lot. What I did not say is that pattern of hormones is not possible in Summer because the situation with my diabetes (which I also have) looks very different in Summer and would not be possible with those hormone levels.

 

[WillowJ]

modafinil did give me an energy boost but at the cost of a severe headache.

I tried Valium today since my doctor said it could give me energy. And here I am, 2 AM, no sleep. Good energy, bad timing. Took 2,5 mg. Think I should try a smaller dose.

Anyone else gets energy from benzo? Weird.

actually yes, as it started to wear off. I had it for a procedure sometimes and felt drowsy and not all with it, but at least once, later or the next day I felt better and more alert and it helped with sound sensitivity. The next 2-3 days, though, the sensitivity seemed worse.

 

[Little Bluestem]

@Leoopardtail, that reply was meant for Ninan. I will edit it to say so. With every thing I have read about internet spying, I thought you could just read my mind.

 

[Ninan]

modafinil did give me an energy boost but at the cost of a severe headache.



actually yes, as it started to wear off. I had it for a procedure sometimes and felt drowsy and not all with it, but at least once, later or the next day I felt better and more alert and it helped with sound sensitivity. The next 2-3 days, though, the sensitivity seemed worse.

Maybe modafinil raised your blood pressure too much? Could explain the headache.

It seems that low dose benzo could give energy for some reason. Maybe @Little Bluestem is right? Though I always figured my CNS was down regulated since it fails to control my orthostatic problems etc. But who knows?

 

[Ninan]

Recent test results so still working on it.
I had high Adrenalin, low Noradrenalin, high Dopamine.
I already found vitamin C improves both mood and health and is used to convert Dopamine to Noradrenaline, so suspect that's part of the picture.
What I need to work out is why Noradrenalin is being converted to Adrenalin too fast and whether my low Blood Volume is causing the high Adrenalin to maintain blood pressure.

Right now my primary focus is the low blood pressure and what is causing it... I know saline infusion causes a massive improvement in symptoms and I feel much better cerebrally when lying down.

Sounds like we may have the same thing going on. Sensory overload is a huge problem for me. It ruins my life, prevents me from doing all the things I enjoy, socialize etc. And it steals all my energy.

I get better from IV saline too.

And I can feel the blood leaving my brain when I've overdone it. Can you?

 

[heapsreal]

increasing dopamine might also help sensory overload as it may help u to concentrate better at the job at hand instead of being distracted??

Just a thought.

 

[Ninan]

I'll look in to that. Thanks @heapsreal and @Leopardtail

 

[Leopardtail]

Sounds like we may have the same thing going on. Sensory overload is a huge problem for me. It ruins my life, prevents me from doing all the things I enjoy, socialize etc. And it steals all my energy.

I get better from IV saline too.

And I can feel the blood leaving my brain when I've overdone it. Can you?

What's more noticeable for me is the blood entering my brain when volume goes up (e.g. on rare occasions when I get saline) - head starts working, face ells warmer, colour comes back.
For me the degradation occurs over a few hours then I stay bad.

 

[Leopardtail]

increasing dopamine might also help sensory overload as it may help u to concentrate better at the job at hand instead of being distracted??

Just a thought.

already have loads of Dopamine Heaps (too much), not managed to work out why yet.
Dopamine and Norepinephrine both seem involved in this stuff, different types of concentration. I am really not sure how well science understand the effects though. These things affect each other (e.g. Dopamine and Adrenalin both low Noradrenaline) - so unless you study them all at once, it's tough to know what's happening.

 

[heapsreal]

already have loads of Dopamine Heaps (too much), not managed to work out why yet.
Dopamine and Norepinephrine both seem involved in this stuff, different types of concentration. I am really not sure how well science understand the effects though. These things affect each other (e.g. Dopamine and Adrenalin both low Noradrenaline) - so unless you study them all at once, it's tough to know what's happening.

It seems like its really trial and error when trying to fix certain neurotransmitters, also different hormones also play a significant role in neurotransmitters eg pregnenolone, dhea, cortisol.
My understanding is that even trying to test neurotransmitters isnt really accurate as they can fluctuate alot??

 

[Leopardtail]

It seems like its really trial and error when trying to fix certain neurotransmitters, also different hormones also play a significant role in neurotransmitters eg pregnenolone, dhea, cortisol.
My understanding is that even trying to test neurotransmitters isn't really accurate as they can fluctuate alot??

You can't test for 'true' neurotransmitters, only their circulating counterparts (e.g. dopamine is both). Most doctors do serum test that are too volatile to be any use at all, platelet tests are better in that they give a two hour average and a much clearer picture.

The testing issue is equally true for almost all hormones though, they all shoot up and down which is part of the reason doctors like trophic hormones such as TSH. At the end of the day you have to look at both the symptoms and the tests results to draw a conclusion.

My personal approach if a hormone is out of whack, it to look at possible reasons the body might deliberately alter levels, rule those out first before taking action or allowing a doctor to. It's blood hard work to do though.

 

[Ninan]

You can't test for 'true' neurotransmitters, only their circulating counterparts (e.g. dopamine is both). Most doctors do serum test that are too volatile to be any use at all, platelet tests are better in that they give a two hour average and a much clearer picture.

The testing issue is equally true for almost all hormones though, they all shoot up and down which is part of the reason doctors like trophic hormones such as TSH. At the end of the day you have to look at both the symptoms and the tests results to draw a conclusion.

My personal approach if a hormone is out of whack, it to look at possible reasons the body might deliberately alter levels, rule those out first before taking action or allowing a doctor to. It's blood hard work to do though.

How are you doing with this, Leopardtail? Any success when it comes to blood pressure and sensory intolerance?

 

[Leopardtail]

How are you doing with this, Leopardtail? Any success when it comes to blood pressure and sensory intolerance?

Hi Ninan,

yes I did eventually get some success with this. I got the third doctor I tried to agree to a trial of Fludrocortisone. This produced multiple improvements.

1. Orthostatic Intolerance almost completely gone (now occuring only wth very severe fatigue).
2. Much more stable blood sugars
3. Circulation to hands and feet is markedly improved.
4. Generally much better congition but still far from normal
5. My complexion is less pale
6. Normal thirst, normal urination
7. Dry eye syndrome is gone
8. I have stopped craving Vitamin C, Nuts, Sugary foods, Mushrooms, Salty good in general

The foods appear to have been related to the excessive urination due to lack of Aldosterone.

The change in blood sugar stability post Fludrocortisone implies what I had been thinking for some time: that low blood volume was causing the hormones to be produced in order to maintain blood pressure. Essentially my view is that my body was trying to improve blood oxygenation (dopamine) and maintain blood pressure by working the heart harder and lowering peripheral circulation (adrenaline). These two hormones lower Noradrenaline production with the effect of raising blood pressure through contraction of the blood vessels.

How are you Ninan?

Brian

 

[Ninan]

Great to hear that you're doing better, Brian! I tried Floudrocortisone two years ago and had the same effect but it disappeared after a couple of weeks. That's quite common in adults, I hear. Glad you seem to be an exception!

I'm not doing so good. Gut issues made me stop B12 protocol and D-ribose (allergic to vit C , ALCAR and ribose, very strange) so I'm going down. And orthostatic problems are a big part of that. The energy I get from B12 and ribose (and ALCAR, caffeine etc) make my blood flow work but now... I'm thinking about stimulants again. Vyvanse increases noradrenaline in the brain, maybe that might help if my problem is similar to yours.