Another Medical Kidnapping

[Little Bluestem]

Really? I figured they had her drugged up on psych meds when she was in the hospital.

I don't think that qualifies as medical treatment to anyone but the psychobabblers.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Oh s**t, Mass. Dept. of Children and Families is retaining permanent legal custody of Justina. I assumed that if they transferred her to Conn., they would have to transfer custody to their Conn. counterpart.

But wait, there's more! The Conn. facility where Justina is going " is one of the largest human services providers in Massachusetts, performing extensive work for DCF. The company was paid $46.4 million by the state in fiscal 2014, according to the state’s online database."

Polanowicz’s letter to Jones states that, for the parents to win state support for returning their daughter to them, they must meet some conditions, including following Tufts Medical Center’s care plan for Justina, participating in family therapy, and meeting with DCF to review their child’s progress.

Does this mean that Justina's original treating physician at Tufts will be allowed to resume her treatment? That would certainly be a big improvement.

 

[leela]

What a boon that her Tuft's team is a condition of the plan. What an ironic twist as well, since the origin of DCFs involvement was the family refusing BCH's diagnosis and wanting to release her from that hospital to bring her to Tufts! Kafka would be proud!

 

[leela]

WHEN will these idiots recognise that every day, week, month they delay, this girl suffers continued isolation from her family, friends, lifestyle and medical treatment? What a dark circus of criminals and buffoons.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...heir-feet-on-releasing-justina-260002721.html

 

[taniaaust1]

While Justine was imprisoned at Boston Children's Hospital, it was a simple consequence of that imprisonment. Letting her go to church would have also allowed the family have less-supervised contact with her. Basically it was fall-out from the kidnapping itself, rather than specific denial of freedom to practice a religion.

Hospitals often have hospital chaplains.. from what has gone on I can only assume she was denied this option too. She should of had her families religious needs respected even if they couldnt be alone with her or take her to church.

 

[taniaaust1]

It looks like there'll be more of this going on in future. Just seen this on RT news:

'For the first time in history, the UK is planning to introduce the so-called Cinderella law, which will jail parents failing to show love to children for up to 10 years in prison, putting it alongside physical or sexual abuse, local media reported.

This "failure to show love thing" could be used against parents for all kinds of things.. I can imagine that they could use this and say a parent failed to show love.. in cases of where a parent wont get a child vaccinated due to concerns over vaccination.

Parents threatened by this law could be made to do all inds of stuff they didnt want to do and a dont agree with. The law could be used to for control.

 

[taniaaust1]

One sad and appalling feature of this case is that in the US the doctors/hospital/courts could not do this (legally) if Justina was an adult. In order to force institutionalization for psychiatric reasons for more than a couple of days, it would have to be proved that the adult person was an immediate danger to themselves or others --

Any bedbound person who is so sick that they cant get up for food or drinks, (if their illness wasnt believed to be physical eg by a person who believes ME/CFS is psychologically caused) could be said to be an immediate danger to themself.

There is a very real danger out there for very sick ME adults as long as there is a tainted view out there that our illness is a psych one.

 

[SOC]

Any bedbound person who is so sick that they cant get up for food or drinks, (if their illness wasnt believed to be physical eg by a person who believes ME/CFS is psychologically caused) could be said to be an immediate danger to themself.

There is a very real danger out there for very sick ME adults as long as there is a tainted view out there that our illness is a psych one.

That may be true in Australia. I don't believe it's true in the US where Justina lives.

 

[Valentijn]

That may be true in Australia. I don't believe it's true in the US where Justina lives.

Yes, in the US I think someone would usually have to be in imminent danger of them actively harming themselves - like suicide attempts. They'll never be able to commit adults for simply being believed to have a psychosomatic disorder and relying on others to care for them.

Children are more vulnerable to intervention, due to the need to protect them. But even so, I think the Boston Children's' Hospital fiasco will eventually be found to be a gross over-reach by the hospital, the judge, and the child welfare agency involved, regardless of Justina's illness.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

Any bedbound person who is so sick that they cant get up for food or drinks, (if their illness wasnt believed to be physical eg by a person who believes ME/CFS is psychologically caused) could be said to be an immediate danger to themself.

There is a very real danger out there for very sick ME adults as long as there is a tainted view out there that our illness is a psych one.

This is my constant worry and one of the reasons why I deliberately stayed under the radar back when i was bedridden for two years. I was too ill to take the risk as the consequences of showing just how ill could be 'even worse' than the already dire existence

 

[barbc56]

Hospitals often have hospital chaplains.. from what has gone on I can only assume she was denied this option too. She should of had her families religious needs respected even if they couldnt be alone with her or take her to church.

They have a chaplin and Justina was able to attend a generic service. I will post where I found this as soon as I find it again.
Barb

 

[taniaaust1]

They have a chaplin and Justina was able to attend a generic service. I will post where I found this as soon as I find it again.
Barb

Yeah them having a chaplin is just like I thought but was she really to attend or have the chaplin come to her?? That's what needs to be thought about (if she couldnt walk or push herself well in a wheelchair and was told she'd have to get herself there, or being restricted from the chaplin being the one coming to her well that then would be no good).

Hospitals in these cases play games with people.eg you are allowed to ring your family but you have to get yourself to the phone (said to a ME/CFS patient who couldnt walk and was in a psych ward for this).

 

[taniaaust1]

This is my constant worry and one of the reasons why I deliberately stayed under the radar back when i was bedridden for two years. I was too ill to take the risk as the consequences of showing just how ill could be 'even worse' than the already dire existence

The fact that severe ME patients end up having to hide how sick they are due to genuine fears about this. Puts our lives at risk.

 

[taniaaust1]

Yes, in the US I think someone would usually have to be in imminent danger of them actively harming themselves - like suicide attempts. They'll never be able to commit adults for simply being believed to have a psychosomatic disorder and relying on others to care for them.

Children are more vulnerable to intervention, due to the need to protect them. But even so, I think the Boston Children's' Hospital fiasco will eventually be found to be a gross over-reach by the hospital, the judge, and the child welfare agency involved, regardless of Justina's illness.

You are assuming that ME people always have someone else to rely on and care for them, not all do thou.. childen do have somene to care for them and t try to get others to do the right thing (a parent of a child will keep fighting for justice), adults often dont.

What do you think would happen to the severe ME patient who is laying there, unable to get themselves food and drink yet do not have another person to get it for them? Will the American system just allow someone to die and not step in in some way if they find someone in that state? Im curious about how your system would work in such a case? Do they just let people die?

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

The fact that severe ME patients end up having to hide how sick they are due to genuine fears about this. Puts our lives at risk.

Absolutely, that was definitely the choice I made. I'd have rather died in my own home by the hands of my own illness than unecessarily at the hands of psychiatrists in a form of prison. Even a normal hospital admission probably would have killed me. Its a disgraceful position to be in and a choice that shouldn't even have to be considered when a person is busy dealing with literally surving and staying alive.

 

[Valentijn]

What do you think would happen to the severe ME patient who is laying there, unable to get themselves food and drink yet do not have another person to get it for them? Will the American system just allow someone to die and not step in in some way if they find someone in that state? Im curious about how your system would work in such a case? Do they just let people die?

They might end up in a hospital or getting other assistance. They wouldn't be involuntarily committed unless they're threatening to actively harm themselves.

One example is those flippin' morons who believe they can live on sunlight and air, without eating. Starving themselves to death is basically their prerogative, even if they're obviously delusional.

Another example is that people that are 100% suicidal (and whose doctors know it) can get out without a lot of trouble if they're willing to sue or just threaten to sue in a convincing manner. As long as they're not any risk to other people, and resulting liability for the doctors, the easiest way to deal with it is to let them go.

 

[Countrygirl]

Im curious about how your system would work in such a case? Do they just let people die?

Absolutely, Tania. Of course! If one made a fuss about it, as HHNF says, the alternative is even worse. Even when we develop additional serious or potentially serious conditions as well as severe ME, one is still denied appropriate treatment such is the (in the words of one doctor to me) 'contempt' with which the UK medial profession regard those who have a diagnosis of ME. In fact, this GP said to me that his colleagues regard people with ME with even more 'contempt' than they do people with conditions that are regarded as 'mental' health issues(!)

 

[leela]

DCF files motion to dismiss the case! Same judge as before--hope he has the strength of heart and character to let this one go!
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...st-family-of-justina-pelletier-262237221.html

 

[natasa778]

good news

http://foxct.com/2014/06/17/justina-pelletier-to-return-home-wednesday/

 

[Nielk]

Justina going home to her parents tomorrow!

http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ned-parents/mDWtuGURNawSuObO0pDX4J/story.html