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How-I-Recovered-From-CFS-part 2

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Cheesus

Senior Member
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1,292
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UK
There seems to be a lot of great information here. However, I do not have the energy or mental capacity to work through it for myself. Can anyone point me in the direction of a very good practitioner who can guide me through all of this and who will work via skype/email?

Interestingly, the thing that caused me to become very ill and subsequently diagnosed with ME (rather than just years of general unwellness) was a candida diet (and specifically oregano oil). The toxic load ruined me and I have never recovered from it. Does this fit into your theory in any way? It caused me to have very foamy urine and I still get that sometimes.
 
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Radio

Senior Member
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453
Why do we need sulfate support?


Sulfur, and Sulphate Reducing Bacteria – Another Piece in the Puzzle


One ‘new’ thing I stumbled upon recently is the importance of sulfur and sulphate reducing bacteria. I’d like to share it with you. I hope you find it as interesting as I do.

Sulfur is an essential mineral found primarily in proteins (sulfur containing amino acids like cysteine and taurine; found heavily in animal proteins) and in Alliaceae vegetables - garlic, onions, broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, Brussels sprouts, and a few others. Sulfur is also found in varying amounts in grains and nuts.

Source - https://secure.flickr.com/photos/tator82/451998913/sizes/m/in/photostream/

Sulfur is an essential element in:

  1. Nerve growth
  2. Neurotransmitter inactivation
  3. Bone & cartilage growth
  4. Mucus production
  5. Detoxification
The big three that I’d like to focus on for this article are:

  1. Nerves & Neurotransmitters - proper nervous system function
  2. Mucus production - proper gut health & leaky gut
  3. Detoxification - proper elimination of toxic compounds
So if you don’t have enough sulfur in your body you can’t do the three things above, and that makes life tough. Why might you not have enough sulfur?

  1. Not eating foods that contain sulfur - probably not a problem for most people, but very restricted eaters, like autistic kids who only eat mac & cheese, might run into this
  2. Poor digestion - if you can’t effectively break down and absorb your food you could run into a sulfur deficiency. Of course we would expect to see this in the context of multiple other nutrient deficiencies.
  3. Sulfate reducing bacteria - my focus for this article
The problem with gut bacteria

If you’ve read much of my blog you know I’m a huge fan of good gut bacteria. They make health possible, and when they go bad they cause disease. But here’s a new twist.

Bacteria, especially Streptococcus, Enterococcus and Prevotella, can turn sulfur into hydrogen sulfide gas. Hydrogen sulfide gas smells like rotten eggs, is toxic to our nervous systems and our mitochondria.

So if we have a dysbiosis which contains a good deal of sulphate reducing bacteria, we have problems!

  1. Deficiency of sulfur which means
    1. Our nervous system doesn’t work properly - nerves can’t grow properly and neurotransmitters can’t be effectively broken down and removed meaning the levels of our neurotransmitters will be imbalanced, causing neurologic and behavioral issues.
    2. We can’t produce enough mucus to keep our guts healthy, meaning chronic issues with leaky gut.
    3. We can’t detoxify effectively - making people toxic (a whole host of problems) and chemically sensitive
  2. Excess hydrogen sulfide which is
    1. Toxic to our nervous system - double whammy when combined with sulfur deficiency
    2. Toxic to mitochondria - the energy producing parts of our cells. Leading to low energy in our cells and our bodies. Might lead to chronic fatigue like symptoms for some.
How do you know if you have this dysbiosis? See more at :

Sulfur, and Sulphate Reducing Bacteria – Another Piece in the Puzzle
http://www.aspirenaturalhealth.com/...e-puzzle-post-149-by-dr-tim-gerstmar-3262012/


Radio: We also need sulfate for wound repair that is required for the extracellular matrix.


Heparan sulfate analogue: Wound repair
Normal wound repair consists of three different phases: hemostasis and inflammation, proliferation and tissue remodeling.[4] In disturbed wound healing, these stages cannot be completed often resulting in a reduced anatomical and functional outcome.[13] Multiple factors determine the average healing time of the different phases. These factors can be classified into local factors such as infection and ischemia, and systemic factors such as age, stress, Diabetes Mellitus and smoking.[14] In chronic wounds, factors as mentioned above, make it impossible for the tissue to regenerate properly.[13] After injury, the extracellular matrix, and thereby also the heparan sulfate is broken down by different local enzymes, produced by macrophages such as, heparanases, serine proteases and metalloproteinases (MMPs).[15] Heparan sulfate analogues replace the broken heparan sulfate at the wound site and bind to the free heparan sulfate binding sites of the extracellular matrix. Heparan sulfate is slightly negatively charged and so it can bind the positively charged units of the proteins and secure the ECM scaffold. That ensures a supply of the different protein ligands at the wound site. See more at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heparan_sulfate_analogue




Sulfate Support Supplements



Joint Pain Relief Topical Patch with D-Glucosamine Sulfate and Chondroitin Sulfate Patches
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G4EBZAU/ref=oh_details_o03_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Source Naturals Chondroitin Sulfate 600mg Radio: (I use this as a sublingual)

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GFJJWE...colid=STE6K5DNMJYK&coliid=I687Q658W6S8N&psc=1




Radio: This concludes my broadcast for now :balanced: Pay it forward and never give up!



Extracellular matrix

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extracellular_matrix

Could Sulfur Deficiency be a Contributing Factor in Obesity, Heart Disease, Alzheimer'sand Chronic Fatigue Syndrome?

http://people.csail.mit.edu/seneff/sulfur_obesity_alzheimers_muscle_wasting.html
 
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ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@Cheesus It's critical to have a detox protocol in place, which include things to bind and to help eliminate the toxins we're releasing. Mercifully, my detoxxing has been going smoothly. I'm happy to detail what I've been using, but you might be more interested in finding a practitioner. After a year of going very slowly, I added frequnt coffee enemas, which has been a great help. I'm linking to a couple resources about coffee enemas. I'm also linking a vid I've just watched from Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt. He'w working w/ autism and Lyme disease. His work suggests Lume is not just tick-borne, but congenital. And he calls such illnesses as MS, Parkinson's, ALS 'adult autism'. He talks about his treatment: Detox; detox; detox; eliminate EMFs. I found this lecture illuminating. Best wishes, ahmo

http://www.mygutsy.com/the-ultimate-liver-detox-coffee-enemas/
http://www.sawilsons.com/library.htm
Klinghardt: Pyroluria, Autism, Lyme http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=-z3kRDYcvhA
Klinghardt. Pyroluria doc: http://www.klinghardtacademy.com/images/stories/powerpoints/hpu 2009.pdf
 

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
There seems to be a lot of great information here. However, I do not have the energy or mental capacity to work through it for myself. Can anyone point me in the direction of a very good practitioner who can guide me through all of this and who will work via skype/email?

Interestingly, the thing that caused me to become very ill and subsequently diagnosed with ME (rather than just years of general unwellness) was a candida diet (and specifically oregano oil). The toxic load ruined me and I have never recovered from it. Does this fit into your theory in any way? It caused me to have very foamy urine and I still get that sometimes.

Yes, I think you would benefited from researching lipid replacement therapy and The 7 Key to my Recovery. Also, I would consider doing some comprehensive testing on your kidney function.
 

South

Senior Member
Messages
466
Location
Southeastern United States
There seems to be a lot of great information here. However, I do not have the energy or mental capacity to work through it for myself. Can anyone point me in the direction of a very good practitioner who can guide me through all of this and who will work via skype/email?

Interestingly, the thing that caused me to become very ill and subsequently diagnosed with ME (rather than just years of general unwellness) was a candida diet (and specifically oregano oil). The toxic load ruined me and I have never recovered from it. Does this fit into your theory in any way? It caused me to have very foamy urine and I still get that sometimes.
You may have killed off too many of your good bacteria with the oregano. I blame oregano oil for a worsening of my digestive health, after having used it for too long without making an effort to replenish the good bacteria. Still floundering around after that, unfortunately.
 

Aerose91

Senior Member
Messages
1,400
There seems to be a lot of great information here. However, I do not have the energy or mental capacity to work through it for myself. Can anyone point me in the direction of a very good practitioner who can guide me through all of this and who will work via skype/email?

Interestingly, the thing that caused me to become very ill and subsequently diagnosed with ME (rather than just years of general unwellness) was a candida diet (and specifically oregano oil). The toxic load ruined me and I have never recovered from it. Does this fit into your theory in any way? It caused me to have very foamy urine and I still get that sometimes.

@Cheesus

For what it's worth, as horrible as your symptoms must be Ithink you are in the best situation to recover fully. You know what the tipping point was for you and all signs point toward excess toxicity and a poor digestive tract. I bet if you do the correct protocols to address and fix these you will make a full recovery. Pretty much everyone I've seen in a situation like yours is capable of recovering fully once they find they formula out. Best of luck to you! Where r u located btw?
 

Cheesus

Senior Member
Messages
1,292
Location
UK
Ive just seen these responses. Sorry for the late reply!

@South Ironically I don't even have any gut symptoms! Though I am certain that there is still likely a dysbiosis due to my reaction to probiotics and antifungals.

@Radio I have finally found a functional medicine practitioner who I think looks really good (is also a fully licensed MD with 30 years practice). The only issue is that I won't see her until at least July and she is 100 miles from my home so it will be a huge undertaking. In the meantime I am going to do what I can by myself, so that means:

Lipds
Myhill's mitochondria supplement package
Chris Kresser's Paleo diet
Infrared sauna (when I am well enough to withstand the heat as I am not currently)
Meditation (improves mitochondrial gene efficiency (and happiness))
The Perrin Technique (lymph drainage to get rid of toxins).

@Aerose91 Thanks very much for the encouragement. I can really use it right now as I am finding it difficult getting out of bed! Just need to wait on the IFM doctor.
 

Cheesus

Senior Member
Messages
1,292
Location
UK
@Radio regarding my above list, do you think it might be worth adding NAC in there for detox purposes?
 

kyzcreig

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
Houston
Great write up Radio. I have a similar experience as you - fatigue in my early 20s followed by MCS. Only recently I've made progress with MCS and fatigue (ONOO Pall protocol and Mercury chelation) but I still react to many foods, which precipitates all my other symptoms. I suspect dysbiosis due to liberal antibiotic use was the root cause. Would you say you've cured yourself 100%?

Has anyone else had success following the protocols advocated in here?
 

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
Great write up Radio. I have a similar experience as you - fatigue in my early 20s followed by MCS. Only recently I've made progress with MCS and fatigue (ONOO Pall protocol and Mercury chelation) but I still react to many foods, which precipitates all my other symptoms. I suspect dysbiosis due to liberal antibiotic use was the root cause. Would you say you've cured yourself 100%?

Has anyone else had success following the protocols advocated in here?

Hey Kyzcreig,

I still have metabolic FM damage. But, I have resolved my CFS. I'm not advocating anyone try my protocol, I'm just telling my story and posting related information to help forum members see recovery is possible. Please read some of the new info I have posted here: http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/how-i-recovered-from-cfs.27280/page-10
 

kyzcreig

Senior Member
Messages
141
Location
Houston
That's good to hear. What are the repercussions of metabolic FM damage? Lower energy?

Edit: I don't have a problem with energy levels per se, at least not since I started using Pall's ONOO protocol. My main problem is with MCS/gut reactions now. Do you think Methylation/B12 deficiency is worth investigating? Are there any diagnostics for it? Curiouslly Freddd's protocol suggests avoiding glutathione - (topical and IV) glutathione seems to be the only thing that cures my ails. That and vitamin C.

Also thank you for writing all of this. It is wonderful that those of us with success share their experiences for the benefit of all.
 
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Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
That's good to hear. What are the repercussions of metabolic FM damage? Lower energy?
I have mild nerve damage, muscular pain and restricted blood flow. I have repaired my mitochondria to the point that low energy is no longer a problem. But, If you want to get technical FM is low energy on the cellular level. If i eat a super clean diet and support the 7 keys to my recovery, I can control FM symptoms.
 
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I have mild nerve damage, muscular pain and restricted blood flow. I have repaired my mitochondria to the point that low energy is no longer a problem. But, If you want to get technical FM is low energy on the cellular level. If i eat a super clean diet and support the 7 keys to my recovery, I can control FM symptoms.

There really isn't any evidence that conclusively has proven FM is a 'progressive mitochondrial disorder' -- do you have evidence of this. There really isn't any evidence that FM can be ameliorated by diet -- please provide studies.

Thanks.
 

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
There really isn't any evidence that conclusively has proven FM is a progressiv'e mitochondrial disorder' -- do you have evidence of this. There really isn't any evidence that FM can be ameliorated by diet -- please provide studies.

Thanks.

Hello Kina,

"Progressive mitochondrial disorder" is more of a genetic terminology. I agree with you about FM not being a genetic mitochondria disorder. We are talking about acquired mitochondrial damage from metabolic imbalances related to dysbiosis. There are many other contributing factors such as mercury, viral infections and environmental toxins to consider as well.


Please Review Dr Vasquez's textbooks and peer reviewed biomedical journals. Unfortunately you would need to buy the textbooks see the most of his research.


A Safe and Effective Functional Medicine Strategy
Authored by Dr Alex Vasquez
A complex condition deciphered based on published (and often overlooked) research-the hope for cure for millions of people who have suffered far too long!
Summarizing research presented in Europe in March 2012, "Fibromyalgia in a Nutshell" is an updated excerpt from two of Dr Vasquez's recent books for doctors: "Migraine Headaches, Hypothyroidism, and Fibromyalgia" and "Integrative Orthopedics-Third Edition." This edition of the information has been completely reviewed and revised for easier reading by the general public; doctors and patients alike will find this information clinically accurate as well as therapeutically applicable for daily use. See more here: https://www.createspace.com/3838921

http://www.amazon.com/Fibromyalgia-Nutshell-Effective-Functional-Medicine/dp/1475121253


A program consisting of a phytonutrient-rich medical food and an elimination diet ameliorated fibromyalgia symptoms and promoted toxic-element detoxification in a pilot trial.http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21717823
Oxidative stress and mitochondrial dysfunction in fibromyalgia.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20424583
Mitochondrial myopathy presenting as fibromyalgia: a case report
http://www.jmedicalcasereports.com/content/6/1/55
Energy Makers Eroding in Fibromyalgia
http://www.fmnetnews.com/latest-news/energy-makers-eroding-in-fibromyalgia
Vegan diet alleviates fibromyalgia symptoms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11093597
Relief of fibromyalgia symptoms following discontinuation of dietary excitotoxins.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11408989
Clinical impact of a gluten-free diet on health-related quality of life in seven fibromyalgia syndrome patients with associated celiac disease
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-230X/13/157
The use of D-ribose in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia: a pilot study.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17109576
Dr Myhill on Fibromyalgia and Mitochondrial Dysfunction
http://www.prohealth.com/library/showarticle.cfm?libid=16720
A link between irritable bowel syndrome and fibromyalgia may be related to findings on lactulose breath testing
http://ard.bmj.com/content/63/4/450.full
Fermentation in the gut and CFS
http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Fermentation_in_the_gut_and_CFS
Free radicals, antioxidants and functional foods: Impact on human health
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3249911/
 
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