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Mitochondria supplements......?

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Hi,
The lab and the test: http://www.hdri-usa.com/tests/methylation/.

I am worse, but at least I know why. I had the panel done before a methylation protocol , and a year after treatment. To my surprise the level of the reduced glutathione was higher , but still below normal in the labtest.

Then I was diagnosed with Lyme. Rich Van K suggested that Lyme is one of the possible "stressors" that consume glutathione. http://www.lymeinfo.net/methylationblock.html. It makes sense to me. All the best to you!
Hi,

Thanks for the link. Can I ask how much the test is? Are you in the uk....?
 

Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
An amazing story about Phosphatidyl-Choline, the cell membrane and lecithin. The story of PC has recently become quite amazing which involves 3 players, Dr Burzynski, Professor Barenholz and Dr Milz and a dynamic research with rat heart cell myocytes. The study describes the heart cells beating together in vitro at 160 beats per minute, then losing their beating rate with age, which was subsequently revived with the addition of phosphatidylcholine. An amazing story.

Click here to get our BodyBio Bulletin Article referred to in the video - titled Answers to Nature Article - http://www.bodybio.com/content.aspx?p...




 
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Radio

Senior Member
Messages
453
This is my Mitochondrial Recovery Protocol


Now foods super enzymes
h
ttp://www.iherb.com/search?sug=now foods super enzymes&kw=now foods su&rank=4#p=1

BodyBio PC

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001169CF6...=UTF8&colid=STE6K5DNMJYK&coliid=IJ444PD8I5XBI

Enzymatic Therapy, B12 Infusion, Energy

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-B12-Infusion-Energy-30-Chewable-Tablets/2119#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=b12 methylcobalamin&rc=446&sr=null&ic=15

Joint Pain Relief 24/7 Topical D-Glucosamine Sulfate and Chondroitin Sulfate Patches

http://www.amazon.com/Topical-D-Glucosamine-Sulfate-Chondroitin-Patches/dp/B00G4EBZAU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1396313249&sr=8-1&

Pure Encapsulations, O.N.E Multivitamin
( http://www.iherb.com/Pure-Encapsula...min-With-Metafolin-L-5-MTHF-60-Capsules/52461 )

Thorne Research, Potassium Citrate, 90 Veggie Caps
http://www.iherb.com/Thorne-Researc...=0&lc=en-US&w=potassium&rc=6701&sr=null&ic=39

Source Naturals, Life Minerals, No Iron
http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Life-Minerals-No-Iron-120-Tablets/1258#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=Krebs Chelates&rc=41&sr=null&ic=6

Life Extension, Pantothenic Acid Vitamin B-5, 500 mg
http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Pantothenic-Acid-Vitamin-B-5-500-mg-100-Capsules/4902#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=vitamin b 5&rc=9957&sr=null&ic=1

Source Naturals, Coenzymated B-3, Sublingual, 25 mg

http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-Coenzymated-B-3-Sublingual-25-mg-60-Tablets/1039#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=NAD,&rc=60&sr=null&ic=1

Jarrow Formulas, 50:1 Ginkgo Biloba, 120 mg
http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formula...&w=Ginkgo Biloba Extract&rc=617&sr=null&ic=24

Now Foods, Melatonin, 3 mg, 180 Capsules

http://www.iherb.com/Now-Foods-Melatonin-3-mg-180-Capsules/328#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=melatonin sleep adhd&rc=217&sr=null&ic=1

A.C. Grace Company, Unique E, 30 Softgels

http://www.iherb.com/A-C-Grace-Company-Unique-E-30-Softgels/8627#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=Unique E&rc=756&sr=null&ic=2

Jarrow Formulas, CarnitAll 600+, 90 Veggie Caps

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-CarnitAll-600-90-Veggie-Caps/4330#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=l carnitine 600&rc=707&sr=null&ic=1

Life Extension Super Ubiquniol Coq10 With BioPQQ

http://www.iherb.com/Life-Extension-Super-Ubiquinol-CoQ10-with-BioQQ-100-mg-30-Softgels/50706#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=Extension Super Ubiquniol Coq10 With BioPQQ&rc=7&sr=null&ic=1



Disclaimer
The information on this thread is not intended to be medical advice. The information is meant to inspire and motivate you to make your own decisions surrounding your health care and dietary needs. It is intended for educational and informational purposes only. You should not rely upon any information found on this thread to determine dietary changes, a medical diagnosis or course of treatment. Readers should perform their own research and make decisions in partnership with their own health care providers.
 
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Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Hi,

Thanks for the link. Can I ask how much the test is? Are you in the uk....?

At the European lab it is 300 Euro http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/documents/en/pricelist_en.pdf?PHPSESSID=35c15f2d0e80b404f1dcb233154d3e80 .

I didn´t mention the European lab before, but it is a sister company (right expression?) to the American that I linked to. The prices have been about the same. I preferred the American lab as the panel was put together by the head of that lab. Also it was a bit better, at least before. I can´t remember now what the difference was - one more analyze I think?. If you would use the European lab, tell them that you want all tests like in the American panel. I am in Sweden....
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
At the European lab it is 300 Euro http://www.europeanlaboratory.nl/documents/en/pricelist_en.pdf?PHPSESSID=35c15f2d0e80b404f1dcb233154d3e80 .

I didn´t mention the European lab before, but it is a sister company (right expression?) to the American that I linked to. The prices have been about the same. I preferred the American lab as the panel was put together by the head of that lab. Also it was a bit better, at least before. I can´t remember now what the difference was - one more analyze I think?. If you would use the European lab, tell them that you want all tests like in the American panel. I am in Sweden....
Thanks. It says €300 for the meth panel.....is that what you had? How did you manage to interpret the results?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Yes, I payed something like that. When I had the first test result Rich van Konynenburg was still alive and did the interpretation. (Did you see his guide for this here on PR?). He was very interested in seeing these test results as they could confirm, or not, his hypothesis that blocked methylation with low glutathione is a cause (or necessary factor) for ME.

By the way, all but a few of 200 test results that he had received from people with ME showed decreased methylation and glutathione as he had suggested. (http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/ )
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Yes, I payed something like that. When I had the first test result Rich van Konynenburg was still alive and did the interpretation. (Did you see his guide for this here on PR?). He was very interested in seeing these test results as they could confirm, or not, his hypothesis that blocked methylation with low glutathione is a cause (or necessary factor) for ME.

By the way, all but a few of 200 test results that he had received from people with ME showed decreased methylation and glutathione as he had suggested. (http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/ )
Yes I used to email Rich a lot. He was very helpful!! Amazing really. I tried the supplements without having any of the meth tests but nothing really came of it. I was still feeling ill. I find I have a number of health issues. A number I am working on and probably will have to work on. I've had tests for thyroid, adrenals, guts and mitochondria and all were "wrong". All showed issues. Slowly all things are getting better though. I seem to get a little step up on tackling each issue.

However, I've always suspected toxic poisoning due to the exposure I had in the 90's. Driving in london traffic day in and day put. My next test I am tempted to have a toxic analysis......
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Yes I used to email Rich a lot. He was very helpful!! Amazing really. I tried the supplements without having any of the meth tests but nothing really came of it. I was still feeling ill. I find I have a number of health issues. A number I am working on and probably will have to work on. I've had tests for thyroid, adrenals, guts and mitochondria and all were "wrong". All showed issues. Slowly all things are getting better though. I seem to get a little step up on tackling each issue.

However, I've always suspected toxic poisoning due to the exposure I had in the 90's. Driving in london traffic day in and day put. My next test I am tempted to have a toxic analysis......

Did you have a 23andme test with a detox profile? There is much more information to get from that, than what is written about, according to researchers, doctors and studies that I have been in touch with.

Good to hear about dear Rich. It always gives me a warm feeling to read about him. I spent two days with him when he had the seminar in Sweden. A great person and interesting talk about ME/CFS beside the seminar.

I believe, like you do, in optimizing all that have been found wrong. A low thyroid might give the most unbelievable symptoms as I recognized when I digged deeper into this for some years. I think treating the thyroid, and impaired methylation, is basic.
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Yes, I payed something like that. When I had the first test result Rich van Konynenburg was still alive and did the interpretation. (Did you see his guide for this here on PR?). He was very interested in seeing these test results as they could confirm, or not, his hypothesis that blocked methylation with low glutathione is a cause (or necessary factor) for ME.

By the way, all but a few of 200 test results that he had received from people with ME showed decreased methylation and glutathione as he had suggested. (http://iaomt.media.fnf.nu/2/skovde_2011_me_kroniskt_trotthetssyndrom/ )


Interesting link! Do you believe it's all true?
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Did you have a 23andme test with a detox profile? There is much more information to get from that, than what is written about, according to researchers, doctors and studies that I have been in touch with.

Good to hear about dear Rich. It always gives me a warm feeling to read about him. I spent two days with him when he had the seminar in Sweden. A great person and interesting talk about ME/CFS beside the seminar.

I believe, like you do, in optimizing all that have been found wrong. A low thyroid might give the most unbelievable symptoms as I recognized when I digged deeper into this for some years. I think treating the thyroid, and impaired methylation, is basic.


What should one take for methylation do you think? I inject B12 and magnesium daily, along with Carnatite and CoQ 10....... Multi vit and min.....
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Short, too short, answer to your question. Folate is one of the two most important supps for methylation, ( but what you also take are co-factors and symptomatic treatment so important too). B12 the other. What kind of cobalamin do you inject? Do you take any kind of folate,dose?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Interesting link! Do you believe it's all true?

At least the basic hypothesis, - until research has prooved it wrong. ( Unfortunately no scientific study has been conducted so far). I don´t believe electrosensitivity is caused by myelin degeneration though, there are more factors, like toxic chemicals involved.
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Short, too short, answer to your question. Folate is one of the two most important supps for methylation, ( but what you also take are co-factors and symptomatic treatment so important too). B12 the other. What kind of cobalamin do you inject? Do you take any kind of folate,dose?

Hi,

No I only take a multi B vitamin and the injected B12. I think the B12 is hydrocobalamin. So no folate as such. I've just received the PQQ in the post though. I'm going to try that as a booster to the Q10 I take.....
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Always "start low and go slow" when trying out new mitochondiral supplements. They can stimulate the sympathetic nervous system.

Every fatigued person is different.

Co10 and L-carnitine seems "too strong" (overstimulating) for me. NADH is good but strong. D-ribose works good. I would start at just 750mg of d-ribose to see how it affects you and take it up from there.

I have heard glowing reports about PQQ, some people say it worked better than anything else... some people say it keeps them up past their bedtime


Well I've received my PQQ in the post this morning so will start that today! Do you know the best way to go about supplementing with this....?
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Hi,

No I only take a multi B vitamin and the injected B12. I think the B12 is hydrocobalamin. So no folate as such. I've just received the PQQ in the post though. I'm going to try that as a booster to the Q10 I take.....

Did you see the links in the signature of @caledonia? There is plenty of good information about methylation protocols. As most people with ME/CFS seem to have at least one mutation in one of the important MTHFR SNP´s you might have one or more too. Also because you are taking B12 I think it would be a good idea to add methylfolate.
The Methylation Pathways Panel where we started our discussion is good to have, but not necessary for trying a methylation protocol. If you would add methylfolate, mind that methylfolate can be rather potent for some people.
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Did you see the links in the signature of @caledonia? There is plenty of good information about methylation protocols. As most people with ME/CFS seem to have at least one mutation in one of the important MTHFR SNP´s you might have one or more too. Also because you are taking B12 I think it would be a good idea to add methylfolate.
The Methylation Pathways Panel where we started our discussion is good to have, but not necessary for trying a methylation protocol. If you would add methylfolate, mind that methylfolate can be rather potent for some people.
Morning Helen,

Well I was just told on the Facebook meth page to not just take the supplements willy, nilly as this could be a waste of time and harmful. She's suggesting I take the 23andMe test. Something I have thought about in the past but was reluctant to do due to it's complicated nature. Don't know. It would be nice to know one way or the other though.....you know? Find out what's going on at a deeper level.....
 

Helen

Senior Member
Messages
2,243
Hello Sporty (noon by now :),

I myself have had very good help from gene testing. You are probably aware of that a gene test can only tell you if you are at risk for ezyme problems (up - or down regulations) due tu mutations. It can not tell what is going on "in real life". For that you have to have valid (and many are not valid especially if negative) lab tests.

If you e.g. have the common MTHFR mutation(-s) you will know that you probably have an ezyme defect that might have some degreee of impact on your folate-metabolism - and then also your methylation. There are several other probable findings that are good to know about. A 23andme is very easy to do. The sample is picked up at your door by DHL, prepaid as 23andme wants it delivered to their lab as fast as possible.
 

Sporty

Senior Member
Messages
161
Location
Essex, UK
Hello Sporty (noon by now :),

I myself have had very good help from gene testing. You are probably aware of that a gene test can only tell you if you are at risk for ezyme problems (up - or down regulations) due tu mutations. It can not tell what is going on "in real life". For that you have to have valid (and many are not valid especially if negative) lab tests.

If you e.g. have the common MTHFR mutation(-s) you will know that you probably have an ezyme defect that might have some degreee of impact on your folate-metabolism - and then also your methylation. There are several other probable findings that are good to know about. A 23andme is very easy to do. The sample is picked up at your door by DHL, prepaid as 23andme wants it delivered to their lab as fast as possible.

Have you done the 23andMe test yourself then Helen....?
 

Mij

Messages
2,353
Always "start low and go slow" when trying out new mitochondiral supplements. They can stimulate the sympathetic nervous system.

Every fatigued person is different.

Co10 and L-carnitine seems "too strong" (overstimulating) for me. NADH is good but strong. D-ribose works good. I would start at just 750mg of d-ribose to see how it affects you and take it up from there.

I have heard glowing reports about PQQ, some people say it worked better than anything else... some people say it keeps them up past their bedtime

My integrative and functional doctor suggested to take PQQ in combination with Ubiquinol. I've tried this for 6 months but didn't feel any noticeable improvement, that doesn't necessarily mean it is not helping. I took it in the morning so it didn't overstimulate me. To save $$ I just take Ubiqinol now with other antioxidants.