The Lightening Process. Does it work? If so then how?

[Dster]

my limited understanding is those using LP werent allowed to say it wasnt helping or say they felt bad as this was negative thought process and dysrupts the healing process, whatever that means. Years ago when i looked into it, it reminded me of something sir wessely would promote as it seem to make out that its the negative illness belief thats the issue.

Personally i would like to see them test people before hand with nk function tests, viral titres etc and then after being on LP and show improvements of the physical issues responding to the thought process. I can guess the answer and probably the same reason why they havent dont such a study.

Your understanding is indeed limited.

 

[Dster]

Hypnotherapy is a respectable and incredibly useful medical tool when used properly.
It is abused by stage performers.

It has nothing in common with the lightening-your-wallet process, which is about jumping onto different sheets of paper with labels on them, to help you to decide you are not going to "do" ME any more.

It's the pairing of an action with the decision that theoretically helps reinforce your decision.

Similar to having a picture to look at while learning to read a word helps to reinforce the learning.
Simple psychological technique, a bit CBT-ish.

It is pure pseudoscience. ME is not caused by a sustained release of adrenalin, which is phil parker's (not-properly qualified in medicine or science) "theory" of ME.

You will not get better by pretending you're not sick.


It's hard to work out what his academic qualifications actually are. I believe he has invented and awarded himself a fair few. According to his home page, he is currently doing a PhD at London Met.

I don't care what qualifications he has - his process cured me and 2 other people I know. I don't know why people focus on Parker rather than a process that works - you ned to rise above personal attacks and look at the evidence

 

[Undisclosed]

I don't care what qualifications he has - his process cured me and 2 other people I know. I don't know why people focus on Parker rather than a process that works - you ned to rise above personal attacks and look at the evidence

Yes, you do.

 

[Dster]

This stood out for me from Sallycat's experience of doing the ;LP. It's sad but actually made me laugh a bit:




http://sallycats.hubpages.com/hub/The-Lightning-Process-Didnt-Work-For-me

No training program will work for everyone clearly - just as no drug will work for everybody with the same illness. But it worked for me and 2 others I know of

 

[Undisclosed]

No training program will work for everyone clearly - just as no drug will work for everybody with the same illness. But it worked for me and 2 others I know of

So 3 people out of millions have been cured by LP. That's worse odds than spontaneous recovery.

 

[Dster]

.
Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) found the Phil Parker Group (Lightning Process) guilty twice of making false misleading claims in its advertising (in 2012 and again in 2013). Other Lightning Trainers have been “done” by the ASA too

http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...tion-on-phil-parker-group-ltd-22-august-2012/



http://asa.org.uk/Rulings/Adjudications/2013/3/Phil-Parker-Group-Ltd/SHP_ADJ_210374.aspx

“The claims must not appear again in their current form. We welcomed the decision to remove the claims. We told Phil Parker Group not to make claims on websites within their control that were directly connected with the supply of their goods and services if those claims could not be supported with robust evidence. We also told them not to refer to conditions for which advice should be sought from suitably qualified health professionals.”




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~





‘The Lightning Process Didn't Work For me’ (describes the course too)

http://sallycats.hubpages.com/hub/The-Lightning-Process-Didnt-Work-For-me

Doh! Citing that the advertising stds authority found Parker in breach of its rules says NOTHING about the efficacy of the LP! There is NO connection. Abortion is illegal in Eire, but it's still highly effective!!!

 

[bertiedog]

As a final note there is some evidence which (retrospectively!) supports Parker's hypotheses about how the LP helps with conditions such as CFS/ME

"Dr. Bruun Wyller, who is considered to be one of Norway's leading experts on ME, says:
Recent research on CFS pathophysiology has revealed alterations of cardiovascular regulation and thermoregulation, characterized by enhanced sympathetic nervous activity and increased secretion of epinephrine. These findings indicate a state of permanent distress response – sustained arousal – in CFS patients. Based upon our findings, we have formulated a theory of sustained arousal in CFS, which seems to correspond quite neatly to the theoretical considerations underlying the Lightning Process.
You can read this research in full at http://lib.bioinfo.pl/auth:Wyller,VB"

Ambrosia, I wish you (and strangely enough, everyone reading this, including the bile-writers) every blessing and good fortune in your search for freedom from whatever ails you. Myself, I have booked myself into a local gym and must dash for my induction. All the best

I understand about the theory of CFS being caused by enhanced sympathetic nervous activity and increased secretion of epinephrine but if it was only this simple by taking some betablocker every day we should be fine because this is EXACTLY what they do.

I notice the effect every time I take my low dose ..... but it hasn't made a bit of difference to my ME symptoms or restored my adrenals and thyroid which have been completely knackered by this illness so sorry there has to be a lot more going in in true ME/CFS.

Oh btw @Dster the betablocker hasn't done anything either for the very frequent viruses I get too which knock me for six and make me very unwell and this is despite the fact I have learned to be very chilled and laid back which undoubtedly is due to the calming of the excess adrenaline partly thanks to the the betablocker but also to my attitude of acceptance.

Pam

 

[Dster]

I believe it is based on Neuro linguistic programming - a very useful technique for people wanting to achieve goals or overcome obstacles etc. in their lives. It is based I think on 'reframing' ones thoughts by shouting in your mind STOP at the symptom and then carrying on as if it isn't happening - you probably also look up to the left or right or whatever when saying it so that it 'fixes' in your brain. The LP people say that they believe M.E IS a physical illness - that our amygdala (sp?) in the brain is stuck into some sort of fight or flight response and we need to re programme it so that we no longer have these symptoms that the brain is making.

I have used NLP in the past for things like fear of flying and for getting my swimming technisque better etc. I don't think it is going to cure a real organic illness. I don't think it would work on MS patients, cancer patients, AIDS patients etc etc. I have a blood test that shows mitochondrial dysfunction, nutritional deficiencies, very high cell free DNA and am about to undergo further testing which may or may not show up chronic infections or underling immune dysfunction. I am not sure how LP can help with these.

It costs a lot of money that may be better spent on testing and treatment?

On the other hand I am very interested to know HOW people who claim to have recovered have done it. There are many many people on the internet who claim to be cured by LP - I know everyone jumps on them and says they never had 'real M.E' but they often claim to have bedbound, wheelchair bound etc etc. I wish we knew more about these 'cured ' patients.

Also on yet another hand the LP practitioner will screen out anyone who they thin will not benefit from the process - a bit like Derren Borwne does on the telly when he works out who is the most susceptible to being hypnotised!

They don't screen out people in the manner you suggest. But if they think that they are going to be wasting their cash they don't fleece them. Check out this website for some folk who say they are still well months and years later: www.kathykent.co.uk/testimonials.html. These are real folk Justy, including Linda who's someone I've worked with for years who was desperately ill with me, did the LP and now she's cured

 

[Sushi]

I don't care what qualifications he has - his process cured me and 2 other people I know. I don't know why people focus on Parker rather than a process that works - you ned to rise above personal attacks and look at the evidence

Evidence? The only evidence that you are giving is subjective.

Let's see the before and after lab tests. Anyone diagnosed by the Canadian or International Criteria will have abnormal lab tests. Show us the before and after.

Sushi

 

[Undisclosed]

They don't screen out people in the manner you suggest. But if they think that they are going to be wasting their cash they don't fleece them. Check out this website for some folk who say they are still well months and years later: www.kathykent.co.uk/testimonials.html. These are real folk Justy, including Linda who's someone I've worked with for years who was desperately ill with me, did the LP and now she's cured

The website you linked to is a by a person who provides LP - don't you think that is more than a bit biased? At this point I am wondering if you sell LP training too?

 

[Dster]

What bothers me is that the people who claim to have recovered from severe M.E. were ALREADY well enough to travel to and undertake a 3 day course.

The real scandal is that it is being 'researched' on vulnerable children before it has been studied in adults:
http://www.meassociation.org.uk/201...-used-as-guinea-pigs-church-times-8-oct-2010/


http://multiplechemicalsensitivity....mpted-suicide-after-lightning-process-course/

What's your point - they're not really ill in the first place and that's why it works on them and wouldn't with real ME sufferers? My practitioner travelled to a bed bound woman and had her up and walking around by the end of the first day. Unless she lied of course

 

[peggy-sue]

I had a fairly lengthy personal correspondence with Amir Norris many years ago, when I first heard of this "treatment", I wanted to find out what was involved - because obviously, I want cured.

It quickly became obvious that the "science" was pretty much invented by PP, he does at least make it clear that it is his theory, he does not claim it is based in real scientific knowledge. But he implies that it is. (ergo, psuedoscience)
It certainly didn't coincide with my Hons. BSc. studies.
Also:
We (PWME) tend to have low cortisol, we are not running on a huge outpouring of adrenalin - that would cause our blood pressure to RISE - our blood pressure tends to be low.

Maybe I'm just too educated to fall for it.

I am a scientist - I do care about folk's qualifications, I don't trust psychic surgeons or clairevoyants and I most certainly won't fall for this nonsense. I am not talking from ignorance, I do know what is entailed in the process - I have read many testimonials - both positive and negative, and some folk have given out exactly what is done.

It's not complicated, it is something somebody who had just genned up from a book could do.
I could do it and make a fortune too, but I have principles and so I wouldn't.

 

[Dster]

Evidence? The only evidence that you are giving is subjective.

Let's see the before and after lab tests. Anyone diagnosed by the Canadian or International Criteria will have abnormal lab tests. Show us the before and after.

Sushi

Sub

This is a perfect example of when an article is written about LP, a hoard of LP trolls come along telling of their fantastic recoveries from ME in a mere three days. Unfortunately, if you dig deeper you will find that some of them are just trying to make money. Oh crap, here I go again being all negative, making myself ill. When will I ever learn?

I had a fairly lenghty personal correspondence with Amir Norris many years ago, when I first heard of this "treatment", I wanted to find out what was involved - because obviously, I want cured.

It quickly became obvious that the "science" was pretty much invented by PP, he does at least make it clear that it is his theory, he does not claim it is based in real scientific knowledge. But he implies that it is. (ergo, psuedoscience)
It certainly didn't conincide with my Hons. BSc. studies.
Also:
We (PWME) tend to have low cortisol, we are not running on a huge outpouring of adrenalin - that would cause our blood pressure to RISE - our blood pressure tends to be low.

Maybe I'm just too educated to fall for it.

I am a scientist - I do care about folk's qualifications, I don't trust psychic surgeons or clairevoyants and I most certainly won't fall for this nonsense. I am not talking from ignorance, I do know what is entailed in the process - I have read many testimonials - both positive and negative, and some folk have given out exactly what is done.

It's not complicated, it is something somebody who had just genned up from a book could do.
I could do it and make a fortune too, but I have principles and so I wouldn't.

I certainly did fall for this nonsense and now I'm cured - and I'm a scientist too, Bsc and PhD in physics and a fellow of the chartered management institute. Some things are worth denying ones cynicism for ;-).

 

[Esther12]

and it was MY money I spent on it, and I'll spend it on precisely what I choose to. It's not available on the the NHS so don't worry none of your taxes are being used on it

What made you think I was trying to stop you from spending your money on what you want?

90% + of your posts here seem to be about LP, starting off with talking about someone you know who was cured with LP... it's nice that you're so passionate about it.

 

[peggy-sue]

Aah. I have done a little bit of sleuthing on our LP hero.

Going back to another thread on which he posted a thanks to me for explaining the difference between CFS and ME.

This was my post:
There is nobody in the UK who can diagnose ME. In the NHS, they don't use the correct diagnostic criteria, they have conflated CFS and ME into some useless wastebucket "diagnosis" of CFS/ME, which is meaningless.

CFS can be caused by psychological problems - that sort can be cured with the LP.
ME is a physical disease, it can't be cured by a psychological treatment.

This is really no different to my friend who was "cured of CFS/ME" by the fitting of a pacemaker. Not all of us have primary heart failure and require a pacemaker, but it was a cure for Rob.

This was the reply;

Thanks Peggy-Sue, your post is extremely good news for me. I have been diagnosed with CFS/ME, but from what I know about myself and from what you have just posted, I am now convinced that I have CFS and not ME. I will be looking into using the Lightning Process hopefully next month and will update the site as to how I get on. Thanks again.

So, the reason LP worked for Dster is he had CFS.
Not ME.

Editing to add, (as your post has now appeared) A PhD in Physics (a Hard Science) does not teach you much understanding of biomedical sciences (Life Sciences).

 

[Sushi]

Sub
....

Sub??? What does that mean?

And since you have a Ph.D. in physics, I'd think you would appreciate the importance of objective measures.

Sushi

 

[Min]

What's your point - they're not really ill in the first place and that's why it works on them and wouldn't with real ME sufferers? My practitioner travelled to a bed bound woman and had her up and walking around by the end of the first day. Unless she lied of course

Alleluia praise the profits!

So your only evidence of these miracle cures is hearsay and 'testimonials' on LP sellers websites that they could have written themselves? It sure sounds as if you sell this questionable process yourself. Your only reason for posting on PR is to zealously promote it.

 

[Undisclosed]

From the website of Kathy Kent:

Am I Ready?
As with any training programme we will want to talk to you before you take this training seminar to try and be as certain as we can that this programme is right for you right now. Our experience suggests you should only fill in an application form if you can agree with these statements:

• I understand that the lightning process is a training programme and not a therapy or treatment.
• I understand that learning the lightning process therefore does not guarantee me any results.
• This is because it's a training programme. We will train you in the same way as everybody else who's found this approach the key to moving their lives on. But we can't predict whether you will apply the training to your life or not.
• I accept full responsibility for the effects of applying or not applying this training programme to my life.
• I recognise that the mind and body can powerfully influence each other.
• I am prepared to look at and challenge my beliefs about my condition/illness, my health and myself.
• I am totally prepared to do the sometimes-challenging work of starting to think very differently that's required to get myself back on track.

Not Ready?
We consider you to be not ready yet to take the training if:

• If you doubt that the video footage is genuine.
• If you'd like to give it a go and see what happens.
• You are cynical about the process.

Having said that, we do expect people to be a bit unsure as to whether they will get the same results as the cases reported on this website, which seems entirely reasonable based on many people's histories of lack of success with other approaches.

However there is a huge difference between being uncertain of the outcome of the process whilst at the same time deciding to put your all into the training process to make sure you get full value from it or just turning up to prove that it won't work for you.

Because the process success is entirely dependent on YOU making changes to the way YOU think, we find that the level of commitment you have to making sure you get the benefits of the process is the most important factor in making a rapid and lasting changes - remember this is not a treatment, it's training, and the tools of the process are only powerful when they are used as taught.

So it's not a treatment or therapy. Marvelous, wonderful -- you can be cured via a training program unless you are skeptical. I find it all quite disgusting.

 

[Min]

From the website of Kathy Kent:



So it's not a treatment or therapy. Marvelous, wonderful -- you can be cured via a training program unless you are skeptical. I find it all quite disgusting.

Because it is a training programme not a treatment, there is no requirement of a refund for those people who pay £800 then find it either does not work or worsens their symptoms.

 

[Sushi]

From Kathy Kent's website as quoted by Kina:

Because the process success is entirely dependent on YOU making changes to the way YOU think, we find that the level of commitment you have to making sure you get the benefits of the process is the most important factor in making a rapid and lasting changes - remember this is not a treatment, it's training, and the tools of the process are only powerful when they are used as taught.

Well, for me, this kind of nails it! "Changes in the way YOU think" and the "level of commitment" are not going to kill pathogens and normalize pet scans of the brain!

Sushi