Did you also have any corresponding studies that would objectively measure your bone health? I think that would be interesting to see as well. Of course DEXA scans aren't cheap. And sorry, are you participating in the PS "trial?"
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The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?
- Thread starter Ripley
- Start date
Did you also have any corresponding studies that would objectively measure your bone health? I think that would be interesting to see as well. Of course DEXA scans aren't cheap. And sorry, are you participating in the PS "trial?"
Does anyone know whether apple fiber is RS? At the store I noticed they sold the fiber, which is advertised as 10% pectin. They also sell the pectin itself, but it's much more expensive.
All I know is I cannot have glutamate or aspartate beyond late afternoon or I become an insomniac. I believe too much of it gets through my gut and BBB and lights my NMDA receptors up like slot machines.
DHO enzymatic capability in the brain has its limits, so yeah, it wouldn't take much. Hopefully you can eventually keep it in the gut, enhance their metabolism, and keep it away from the BBB. Any luck with manganese or magnesium. What about moving your proteins to earlier in the day. What about GABA, have you tried this independently? (not so much recommending but inquiring) choline/lecithin? Have you found anything that helps with this, short of avoiding these amino acids?
Would be interesting to see a DEXA scan one someone with similar issues, before and after RS. I don't have any bone density issues, but I got a basic lipid profile on the day I started, and will compare with to be done in a couple of months. FWIW. I suspect the inflammatory markers are going to take quite a bit longer to influence.
No, I have to avoid them. I get the lion's share of my daily protein at breakfast and lunch, low protein for dinner. Taking yucca schidigera with the two high protein meals keeps my ammonia problems at bay.
GABA might help at night, since a single capsule puts me in a stupor, but I haven't tried it.
MeSci
ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
- Messages
- 8,231
- Location
- Cornwall, UK
No, I didn't have any scans. My doctor refused to refer me after I told him that I wasn't willing to take bisphosphonates. I didn't ask him until I had been taking the supplements and things had improved. It's difficult for me to get to a doctor (distance, no car, no time) and I have had too many bad experiences to go without very good reason.
No, I'm not taking resistant starch as my diet and supplements appear to have similar effects from what some people report from RS, and my diet (vegan) probably contains a fair amount of RS. I am following this thread as I am interested in the subject.
Yucca schidigera, you know how this works, do you? Pretty interesting way to deal with ammonia by blocking urease (from urea splitting bacteria) to prevent the accumulation of NH3. Saponins may have other roles as well that would be beneficial. Glad to see that it is working so well for you. Any side effects? I'll have to think if there may be contraindications. I guess I will have to guinea pig it.
Re: GABA, I don't like to play so closely with neurotransmitters, but I was wondering about a temporary "fix" to help my daughter fall asleep. The poor girl has been wired at night. Think there might be an adjustment period of sorts.
Yes, the woes of conventional medicine. I love how open-minded some can be. I had to argue with mine to go to PT a couple of months ago, when he was convinced I should see a surgeon.
Your diet does probably contain lots of RS, but I think the amylopectin content and the chain length is what makes this so powerful. Substrate specificity makes a difference. Much more important than I ever would have figured.
None. Not sure what long term use may do to me, but I'm willing to take the chance, since it completely alleviates my ammonia symptoms. (anxiety, OCD, paranoia)
Nevermind, apparently it's not resistant fiber at all.
- Messages
- 40
Small update:
Two days after I started supplementing with magnesium my constipation is gone and my regularity is back (Bristol Type Awesome). Amazing. Let's see if it stays this way. I figured that since I have chronic sinusitis I might be deficient in magnesium. When more histamine is produced, the mucous lining in the colon produces diamine oxidase (DAO), an enzyme that inactivates histamine. DAO production is dependent on magnesium, therefore too much of the magnesium my body was getting was used for DAO production.
Here's a good article about magnesium: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/magnesium-central-player-obesity-dave-mayo
Symptoms wise: after my BM I have almost no symptoms. Energy levels are good (but confounding variable is vitamin D, as I spent quite a bit of time in the sun), sense of well-being is abundant but focus isn't totally there. Oh, it has been 7 hours since the BM and I feel really good and have only farted 3 times, (oh wait ..make that 4) despite RS and other fiber intake in the morning.
However, the night and the morning before the BM I have quite a lot of sulphuric gas. This, I hope, based on what @Vegas said a bit earlier, are the bactericidal effects of the RS and the GOS. Ergo; the bad boys are dying(?). What I also noticed is that I'm starting to have a skin outbreak, with small pimples and red spots appearing on my face, legs and arms. Is this caused by the LPS?
@Gestalt Weren't you supplementing with Bimuno as well? What are your experiences?
Two days after I started supplementing with magnesium my constipation is gone and my regularity is back (Bristol Type Awesome). Amazing. Let's see if it stays this way. I figured that since I have chronic sinusitis I might be deficient in magnesium. When more histamine is produced, the mucous lining in the colon produces diamine oxidase (DAO), an enzyme that inactivates histamine. DAO production is dependent on magnesium, therefore too much of the magnesium my body was getting was used for DAO production.
Here's a good article about magnesium: http://www.jigsawhealth.com/resources/magnesium-central-player-obesity-dave-mayo
Symptoms wise: after my BM I have almost no symptoms. Energy levels are good (but confounding variable is vitamin D, as I spent quite a bit of time in the sun), sense of well-being is abundant but focus isn't totally there. Oh, it has been 7 hours since the BM and I feel really good and have only farted 3 times, (oh wait ..make that 4) despite RS and other fiber intake in the morning.
However, the night and the morning before the BM I have quite a lot of sulphuric gas. This, I hope, based on what @Vegas said a bit earlier, are the bactericidal effects of the RS and the GOS. Ergo; the bad boys are dying(?). What I also noticed is that I'm starting to have a skin outbreak, with small pimples and red spots appearing on my face, legs and arms. Is this caused by the LPS?
@Gestalt Weren't you supplementing with Bimuno as well? What are your experiences?
"Bristol Type Awesome" I love that
On the board today, because I feel like crap from t tsp of yogurt and 1 tsp of RS 2 days earlier, and don't feel like working. I was in the sun all weekend, I only wish it made me feel better. I actually have heard this from quite a few though...that they feel better in the sun...VDR.
Great to hear about the magnesium, sort of figured you would be taking that already.
Yes, bacterial displacement, particularly from the lower GIT, will bring the odors. The more offensive the odor, the more bacteria being displaced, or so it would seem; I know, real scientific.
I got a bit of a breakout as well, that was fairly brief, but out of the blue. Obviously there are lots of hypotheses about intestinal permeability and acne, so I don't think this is surprising. I would imagine that this results from interference in the fatty acid metabolism, as sebum is so strongly correlated to acne and is largely comprised of triglycerides, and reduced free fatty acid availability. In other words, your fatty acid metabolism is changing for the better. Additionally, I have to imagine that there is a contribution from the microbiota that populate the skin. I haven't looked at this, but I would imagine bad gut organisms equals bad skin microbiota.
I wonder if the hormonal influences of estradiol may have an effect at puberty, or when it peaks during the cycle in women, thus contributing to acne since this compound (with multiple hydroxyl groups) has been shown to increase intestinal permeability. Not sure about testoserone, but yeah, I think increase in circulating LPS might cause this.
O.K. thanks. Good to know. It's just that saponins, like lectins and other compounds can worsen intestinal permeability, but almost, without exception, the whole plant has other compounds that might outweigh or balance out the detriments. It's good to see that you have had a positive response over time.
jstefl
Senior Member
- Messages
- 250
- Location
- Brookfield, Wisconsin
The pain I was referring to was headache pain. I have had a constant headache for over 23 years, ever since my illness began.
Thinking back, between 1991 when I first became ill, and 2008 when I started Valcyte, I had extreme headache pain, and very black stool. Valcyte changed both for me. I still have headache pain continuously, but it isn't anywhere near the horrific pain that I had previously. Also, when taking Valcyte, my stool changed back to a more normal brown color. I have begun wondering if there is a correlation between the obviously defective digestive tract and my headache pain. I asked Dr. John Chia about the black stool at the Reno conference in 2009, and he told me that Valcyte won't affect enteroviruses, so there must be something else going on. I do have three different species of enteroviruses, one echo virus, and two coxsackie viruses that have been confirmed.
Up until I started the RS, I had extremely loose liquid stool. The combination of the RS and the probiotics seems to be solidifying things. In the past, I had short term success with probiotics, but after a week or so, things always returned to the way they were. I am very hopeful that the new RS probiotic combination will be more effective.
Another thing that I forgot to mention is that I seem to be drinking more, and peeing less. In the past, I have really been careful not to drink much after noon. Lately, I have been drinking much more late in the day, and I can easily sleep through the night without a trip to the bathroom. Obviously, this is a great improvement. Does this mean that I had a leaky gut and that it is leaking less now?
I would really love to have additional testing done, but my past experience with doctors has completely discouraged me. When I bring these things up, the docs don't know what I am talking about. I went to a GI specialist at Mayo who had never heard of enteroviruses.
John
Thinking back, between 1991 when I first became ill, and 2008 when I started Valcyte, I had extreme headache pain, and very black stool. Valcyte changed both for me. I still have headache pain continuously, but it isn't anywhere near the horrific pain that I had previously. Also, when taking Valcyte, my stool changed back to a more normal brown color. I have begun wondering if there is a correlation between the obviously defective digestive tract and my headache pain. I asked Dr. John Chia about the black stool at the Reno conference in 2009, and he told me that Valcyte won't affect enteroviruses, so there must be something else going on. I do have three different species of enteroviruses, one echo virus, and two coxsackie viruses that have been confirmed.
Up until I started the RS, I had extremely loose liquid stool. The combination of the RS and the probiotics seems to be solidifying things. In the past, I had short term success with probiotics, but after a week or so, things always returned to the way they were. I am very hopeful that the new RS probiotic combination will be more effective.
Another thing that I forgot to mention is that I seem to be drinking more, and peeing less. In the past, I have really been careful not to drink much after noon. Lately, I have been drinking much more late in the day, and I can easily sleep through the night without a trip to the bathroom. Obviously, this is a great improvement. Does this mean that I had a leaky gut and that it is leaking less now?
I would really love to have additional testing done, but my past experience with doctors has completely discouraged me. When I bring these things up, the docs don't know what I am talking about. I went to a GI specialist at Mayo who had never heard of enteroviruses.
John
jstefl
Senior Member
- Messages
- 250
- Location
- Brookfield, Wisconsin
With all this talk about teeth being better when using RS, I will add my experience.
I have had serious periodontal problems for a very long time. I have my teeth cleaned every three months. When I went in the last time, after being on RS for a month and a half, the dentist was very excited about how well my teeth were doing. There was less to clean, and the gums were much better. It is way to early to attribute this to RS, but if RS is responsible for my improvements, it will make me very happy.
Also, I have been taking a small dose of doxycycline, 20 mg twice a day as prescribed by my dentist. I have been doing this for over 10 years now, but I have stopped as of yesterday. I want to see if the doxycycline is killing any of the good bacteria. It has been helping me keep my teeth, but if it is affecting other things, I need to know.
Dr. KDM told me that my periodontal problems were likely due to my body being too acidic. He said that the "good" bacteria were not able to live in the acidic conditions, and that allowed the "bad" bacteria to flourish.
Again, I will report if I have any news.
John
I have had serious periodontal problems for a very long time. I have my teeth cleaned every three months. When I went in the last time, after being on RS for a month and a half, the dentist was very excited about how well my teeth were doing. There was less to clean, and the gums were much better. It is way to early to attribute this to RS, but if RS is responsible for my improvements, it will make me very happy.
Also, I have been taking a small dose of doxycycline, 20 mg twice a day as prescribed by my dentist. I have been doing this for over 10 years now, but I have stopped as of yesterday. I want to see if the doxycycline is killing any of the good bacteria. It has been helping me keep my teeth, but if it is affecting other things, I need to know.
Dr. KDM told me that my periodontal problems were likely due to my body being too acidic. He said that the "good" bacteria were not able to live in the acidic conditions, and that allowed the "bad" bacteria to flourish.
Again, I will report if I have any news.
John
My dentist also mentioned about bad taste in the mouth, bad breath, being due to the mouth being too acidic. He advised me to use sodium bicarb (baking soda) in water as a mouthwash. Stir a couple spoonfuls of baking soda in a small glass of water and rinse and gargle with it several times per day. Just starting so we'll see what happens.
adreno
PR activist
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- 4,841
@Vegas
The Mg threonate helps with what I perceive to be glutaminergic overstimulation. It is quite calming to the brain, but doesn't provide enough Mg for the rest of the body, so I also use Mg citrate and Mg glycinate (at night, it's wonderful for sleep). I take 100mg elemental Mg in threonate form, I tried 150mg (the recommended dose) but this actually feels like it slows my thinking too much.
WRT GABA (for your daughter), you might want to look into PharmaGABA. I find this much more effective and much more smooth than the regular amino acid. Just 100mg is enough. Regular GABA gives me breathing problems, throbbing and tingling, but PharmaGABA just has a mild relaxing effect. I use this one, it also comes in a chewable version.
The Mg threonate helps with what I perceive to be glutaminergic overstimulation. It is quite calming to the brain, but doesn't provide enough Mg for the rest of the body, so I also use Mg citrate and Mg glycinate (at night, it's wonderful for sleep). I take 100mg elemental Mg in threonate form, I tried 150mg (the recommended dose) but this actually feels like it slows my thinking too much.
WRT GABA (for your daughter), you might want to look into PharmaGABA. I find this much more effective and much more smooth than the regular amino acid. Just 100mg is enough. Regular GABA gives me breathing problems, throbbing and tingling, but PharmaGABA just has a mild relaxing effect. I use this one, it also comes in a chewable version.
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Interesting about teeth. I've always had rather gooey spit (sorry) when spitting into the sink after cleaning my teeth, to the extent that I have had to keep using stuff to unblock the plughole (sorry! sorry!). That hasn't been happening since I've been using the potato starch. Presumably the gooeyness is related to plaque formation, which has been a problem for me. I'm thinking that maybe RS has changed my mouth microbiome.
Violeta
Senior Member
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I don't have anything right now to back this up, but I think the teeth feeling smoother is because of reduced bacteria. When I eat spinach or other high oxalic acid foods the scummy feeling on my teeth is unbearably. I thought that oxalic acid was the bad guy, but that's missing the point.
Anyway, then to consider cutting back on bad bacteria in the mouth might be the reason for teeth getting whiter can be transferred to bone density improving. Didn't someone say that they had a theory about bacteria being involved in the calcification of bone?
Violeta
Senior Member
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- 2,948
Tempting, really tempting!