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The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

S

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
Have I misunderstood the role of psyllium? I had thought it was just a bulking agent. Is that getting fermented too?
 
X

xjhuez

Senior Member
Messages
175
Sasha said:
Have I misunderstood the role of psyllium? I had thought it was just a bulking agent. Is that getting fermented too?
Click to expand...

I don't know, tbh. I've read various sources which claim that it is, that it isn't, or that it is but very poorly.
 
X

xjhuez

Senior Member
Messages
175
Gestalt

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
Ripley said:
Here's a fantastic blog about microbiota musings:

http://mrheisenbug.wordpress.com

Heisenbug was a bit skeptical of Tim Steele's American Gut Project results, in this post:

Resistant Starch: Case closed? Not so fast.

Tatertot responded and they had a great exchange. Heisenbug followed up with this post:

Gut vs. Gut: This is how & why Resistant Starch is working

and this post:

Was I too hard on Bifidobacteria?

He seems to have an open mind and the critical reviews of the role of RS are excellent reads. Nevertheless, even Heisenbug seems convinced that RS consumption is necessary. Whether he gets most things right or wrong, I can't say (no one can), but it's a really great blog covering these complex topics.
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Thanks for posting that. Very interesting read however the guy's writing style is a bit hard to follow. The huge font on his blog dosen't help. I am now rather confused as to what the precise benefit of RS is...he keeps going back and forth.

So it seems bifido are NOT SCFA producers....

Is the primary benefit of RS then instead the increase in "Roseburia intestinalis" and "Eubacterium rectale" which create all the SCFA's such as butyrate?

RS's primary benefit then appears to be that it feeds/help bifido which then "cross-feed" the actual SCFA producers. A chain-reaction.
 
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R

Ripley

Senior Member
Messages
402
Gestalt said:
RS's primary benefit then appears to be that it feeds/help bifido which then "cross-feed" the actual SCFA producers. A chain-reaction.
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Well, RS seems to produces the most butyrate of any fermentable fiber in vivo...

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ve-been-looking-for.26976/page-23#post-428855

So, my guess is that RS gets fermented by a lot of different gut bugs. I have a feeling at this point nobody really knows exactly how it's able to produce so much butyrate.
 
Gestalt

Gestalt

Senior Member
Messages
251
Location
Canada
Ripley said:
Well, RS seems to produces the most butyrate of any fermentable fiber in vivo...

http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...ve-been-looking-for.26976/page-23#post-428855

So, my guess is that RS gets fermented by a lot of different gut bugs. I have a feeling at this point nobody really knows exactly how it's able to produce so much butyrate.
Click to expand...

I think this is a good example why in vitro will give you a "better" result in terms of butyrate production specificity because it rules out confounding variables of in vivo conditions where cross-feeding occurs which can lead to erroneous cause and effect conclusions.

It's the clostrida group that does the actual SCFA production, but gets its materials from the bifido which gets them from the RS.

Vegas said:
Yes, the Clostrida connection is interesting because the infant microbiome, which is dominated by Bifidobacteria, is secondarily populated with Clostridia. These are the commensal strains that participate in Butyrate biosynthesis. The Clostridia cannot survive, however, without the contributions of the Bifidobacteria.
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also:

"It isn’t as simple as feeding one species a particular substrate, and one species another. In the case of bifidobacteria — who produce lactate and also acetate — we know that certain commensal butyrate producers consume those end products (lactate and acetate) and turn around to produce butyrate. Bifidobacteria also initiate the breakdown of and then release certain fermentable fibers that are then made available to butyrate producers. (More on these two cross feeding mechanisms here: http://aem.asm.org/content/72/5/3593 .)" (source)

Vegas was interested in procuring some Bifidobacterium adolescentis.... i think I know why now.
 
Sushi

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
Basic question: I have been trying 1 teaspoon of the Bob's Red Mill version for about 5 days but it is definitely causing constipation. My "work-around" is extra magnesium. My experiment the first day with taking an extra teaspoon later gave a lot of gut distress so I am planning to move up slowly.

Are others having this problem and, if so, does it resolve at higher doses or get worse?

Thanks,
Sushi
 
Christopher

Christopher

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Pennsylvania
Sushi said:
Basic question: I have been trying 1 teaspoon of the Bob's Red Mill version for about 5 days but it is definitely causing constipation. My "work-around" is extra magnesium. My experiment the first day with taking an extra teaspoon later gave a lot of gut distress so I am planning to move up slowly.

Are others having this problem and, if so, does it resolve at higher doses or get worse?

Thanks,
Sushi
Click to expand...

Stop for a few days.
 
Christopher

Christopher

Senior Member
Messages
576
Location
Pennsylvania
I will probably be adding glucomannan from konjac root soon once it arrives from Amazon. It is a soluble fiber which is supposed to be fermented by bifidobacteria and lactobacilli.
 
B

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
Sushi said:
Basic question: I have been trying 1 teaspoon of the Bob's Red Mill version for about 5 days but it is definitely causing constipation. My "work-around" is extra magnesium. My experiment the first day with taking an extra teaspoon later gave a lot of gut distress so I am planning to move up slowly.

Are others having this problem and, if so, does it resolve at higher doses or get worse?

Thanks,
Sushi
Click to expand...


Mine got better when l increased. I am now one heaped Tbsp which is 30gms not 15, l can't understand why it is said to be 15gms? Very smooth bm's now. I also started Mutaflor today which my doc advised.
 
S

Sasha

Fine, thank you
Messages
17,863
Location
UK
aprilk1869 said:
Does anyone know if this potato flour from Holland and Barrett is RS? I plan on going to Waitrose today to buy the Kockens stuff and these two shops are really near each other so I thought I'd see about buying both kinds to try them out.
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It's got 77g carbs per 100g so it looks like it's the stuff - if it sinks to the bottom in water after you've stirred it in that's another indication. I use the Kockens product (some Swedish guy checked with them about their process and it's RS).
 
A

aprilk1869

Senior Member
Messages
294
Location
Scotland, UK
Sasha said:
It's got 77g carbs per 100g so it looks like it's the stuff - if it sinks to the bottom in water after you've stirred it in that's another indication. I use the Kockens product (some Swedish guy checked with them about their process and it's RS).
Click to expand...

First of all I went to Waitrose and couldn't find it anywhere, looked in all the sections I could think of, baking, gravy, "free from."

So I popped along to H&B and bought the potato flour and it looks like you might be right. It sank to the bottom of the glass. :)
 
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