It's settled - DHEA raises free testosterone

[adreno]

Effect of acute DHEA administration on free testosterone in middle-aged and young men following high-intensity interval training.
Authors
Liu TC, et al. Show all
Journal
Eur J Appl Physiol. 2013 Jul;113(7):1783-92. doi: 10.1007/s00421-013-2607-x. Epub 2013 Feb 17.

Affiliation
Abstract
With advancing age, plasma testosterone levels decline, with free testosterone levels declining more significantly than total testosterone. This fall is thought to underlie the development of physical and mental weakness that occurs with advancing age. In addition, vigorous exercise can also lower total and free testosterone levels with the decline greatest in physically untrained men. The purpose of the study was to evaluate the effect of oral DHEA supplementation, a testosterone precursor, on free testosterone in sedentary middle-aged men during recovery from a high-intensity interval training (HIIT) bout of exercise. A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover study was conducted for 8 middle-aged participants (aged 49.3 ± 2.4 years) and an additional 8 young control participants (aged 21.4 ± 0.3 years). Each participant received DHEA (50 mg) and placebo on separate occasions one night (12 h) before a 5-session, 2-min cycling exercise (100% VO₂max). While no significant age difference in total testosterone was found, middle-aged participants exhibited significantly lower free testosterone and greater luteinizing hormone (LH) levels than the young control group. Oral DHEA supplementation increased circulating DHEA-S and free testosterone levels well above baseline in the middle-aged group, with no significant effect on total testosterone levels. Total testosterone and DHEA-S dropped significantly until 24 h after HIIT for both age groups, while free testosterone of DHEA-supplemented middle-aged men remained unaffected. These results demonstrate acute oral DHEA supplementation can elevate free testosterone levels in middle-aged men and prevent it from declining during HIIT. Therefore, DHEA supplementation may have significant benefits related to HIIT adaptation.

PMID
23417481

 

[Beyond]

That´s interesting Adreno, because a consistent finding of allopaths with me is low DHEA-S and low free testosterone!

 

[adreno]

How old are you?

 

[heapsreal]

Cant say its increased my free testosterone levels at all but it has raised dhea of course. I find dhea increases e2 which I control with arimidex. I think dhea may also have a unique role by itself not just as a pro hormone that increase more down stream hormones?

 

[Beyond]

How old are you?

22.

 

[adreno]

22.

Ouch, it shouldn't be low at your age already. I would try 5mg, increasing to 10mg after a while if that goes well.

 

[heapsreal]

i take 25mg twice a day, i built up to this slowly though. dhea tested 9.1(2.2-15.5), during this same test i was on testosterone cream and my freeT was 57.7(60-130). I really need my freeT above 100. When i see my doc next i will be talking to him about moving to frequent low dose testosterone injection, 100mg once a week or 50mg twice a week.
My age is 43.

The dosing dhea twice a day instead of 1 bigger dose helps reduce aromatisation into e2.

 

[Beyond]

It has been low since 18 I think, when I poisoned myself with aluminum and had acute prolonged stress for years at the onset of my disease.

I am better nowadays and keep improving! I don´t think I´ll need DHEA supplementation.

 

[adreno]

@heapsreal ,

How much pregnenolone do you take, and do you split the dose of that also?

 

[heapsreal]

@heapsreal ,

How much pregnenolone do you take, and do you split the dose of that also?

Preg I use 50mg transdermal cream once in the morning.

 

[physicsstudent13]

isn't it a terrible idea to take testosterone since it shutsdown LH? my levels went to 0 after going to this endo. there was even a bad report about HCG shutting down LH levels also on a forum. I'm not sure if I should take HCG, I'm so exhausted from sleep apnea and wish I had my youth

 

[adreno]

isn't it a terrible idea to take testosterone since it shutsdown LH? my levels went to 0 after going to this endo. there was even a bad report about HCG shutting down LH levels also on a forum. I'm not sure if I should take HCG, I'm so exhausted from sleep apnea and wish I had my youth

Well, HRT is usually for life. Is guess it's better to supplement test on a daily basis than having it low. You might try Clomid, though. It's been known to restart test production.

 

[heapsreal]

isn't it a terrible idea to take testosterone since it shutsdown LH? my levels went to 0 after going to this endo. there was even a bad report about HCG shutting down LH levels also on a forum. I'm not sure if I should take HCG, I'm so exhausted from sleep apnea and wish I had my youth

if u have low testosterone levels and treat this which i think one should, its going to shut down LH which is just a signal to tell the testes to make testosterone, no big deal as even though its sending the message its still not doing the job properly.

Looking on the antiaging forums on TRT some have good responses to transdermal testosterone but many dont. it seems the gold standard are injections. 100mg/week being the standard dose which some break down into more injections to say 50mg twice a week, some do 30mg every second day, what ever they find works for them. anything more than weekly injections they say puts guys in a roller coast ride with their hormones.

HCG is used in low doses twice a week to prevent testicular shrinkage, this isnt necessarily cosmetic but its because the testes also make some other hormones such as pregnenolone etc and many guys say they feel alot better on testosterone when they add HCG. I havent had personal experience but just going off what i have researched.

Adreno mentioned clomid. I have seen guys use 12.5mg 3 times a week with good results, some are able to stop and testosterone levels stay up but many have to stay on clomid. ALso many reports of guys using higher doses and getting very emotional, crying at chick flicks etc giving them emotions like many women, not offending women just reporting what i have read.

 

[undcvr]

i don't think DHEA to test is the issue isn't it the issue of test going down aromatising pathways to produce more estrogen ? And some of these pathways happen very fast even before the test can do much in the system ? I did not know that Clomid cud do that! since it is used for female infertility. Wow!

These guys are just getting in touch with their feminine side that's all.

 

[adreno]

i don't think DHEA to test is the issue isn't it the issue of test going down aromatising pathways to produce more estrogen ?

Well, there has been doubt whether DHEA could raise test at all. But you're right aromatization is a problem. I take things like zinc, I3C and calcium D-glucarate to try and prevent that.

 

[*GG*]

i don't think DHEA to test is the issue isn't it the issue of test going down aromatising pathways to produce more estrogen ? And some of these pathways happen very fast even before the test can do much in the system ? I did not know that Clomid cud do that! since it is used for female infertility. Wow!

These guys are just getting in touch with their feminine side that's all.

I take DHEA down to 50mg (daily) from 100mg and Clomid (25mg/2/week) also. FYI

GG

 

[undcvr]

@adreno i read about DIM and I3C and decided on the opposite, I went with high levels of DIM instead.

@ggingues may I ask what your diagnosis was to be on that ?

 

[physicsstudent13]

so you're taking clomid only twice a week? I take it every day- there was a study saying it restored the HPTA axis so maybe it can restore normal endocrine function?
maybe my endo was terrible to put me on androgel, my LH went to 0 my body stopped producing testosterone and I was still tired and foggy

 

[heapsreal]

so you're taking clomid only twice a week? I take it every day- there was a study saying it restored the HPTA axis so maybe it can restore normal endocrine function?
maybe my endo was terrible to put me on androgel, my LH went to 0 my body stopped producing testosterone and I was still tired and foggy

This is always the case of taking testosterone supplements in that your own production stops. Your body sense your testosterone levels are good so it stops its own production. Some people think if there levels are low that taking a little testosterone is additive to what they have, this isnt the case as it becomes full replacement dosage. The whole process of the body stopping its own testosterone production when external testosterone is used is called negative feedback. The same process of when people are on high doses of prednisone etc and they have to taper off slowly so that their own adrenals switch on and start producing their own cortisol again after adrenals have been shut down from high external doses of cortisone. So a LH of 0 is normal for someone on testosterone.

The better places to find hormone replacement info is on bodybuilding sites under antiaging section or TRT(testosterone replacement therapy) and all this is very different to the way bodybuilders use these drugs. The only suggestion i have when on these sites is that the info isnt balanced with someone with cfs/me. The information is all geared towards men with low testosterone, we have to take into account infections/immune system. They dont get cfs but u will get good info in how to use hormone replacement properly. Also u will find that most doctors dont have a good idea on this so u need to really do your own research. Its not just cfs/me that gp's/drs have a lack of understanding on, i guess it is a specialist type of an area, again intergrative docs are the better option. Antiaging clinics from what i have heard are very over priced. Endocrinologists you would think would be good at this but apparently this isnt the case. One really needs to do their own research and then shop around for a good doc. Not to unlike cfs/me.

 

[physicsstudent13]

well I don't know if they have the best info on bodybuilding forums since they are focused on the short term. I've read that clomid is taken in 5 day courses so I don't know if it's permanently destroying my LH production. there was a forum poster on a bodybuilding forum who cycled HCG and said his LH production was damaged. you also have to worry about vision damage on clomid- I'm so exhausted it's hard to work which is why I take it